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Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/13/06 12:50:21 PM Age 52, KS
Please don't judge young people by whether or not they have tattoos. My son, who is 27, has tattoos of Christian symbols - Yeshua, the Hebrew letter "shin", and the Jewish star. You wouldn't believe the people he has been able to witness to through his tattoos. He is also in a Christian rock band and has led hundreds to the Lord. He is a very strong mature Christian (since the age of 7) and truly walks in the fruit of the Spirit, not just the gifts of the Spirit. There is a Scripture that says that man looks on the outside, but God judges the heart. Try to do more of that, OK? It hurts to hear Christians judging other Christians by external criteria only.
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  1. Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
    Posted On: 07/14/06 07:04:32 AMAge 53, NY
    Dear Lady, I am not going to begin to judge your 27 year old son but do you not know that tattoos are in disobedience to God? If I may remind you Jesus said in Matt 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. And in the Law which Jesus said He did not come to destroy in Leviticus 19:28 it is written, Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks (tattoos) upon you: I am the LORD. So just what is your son witnessing? That we can do what we want and live disobedient to Christ? And if as you claim he is leading hundreds of people to the Lord will they somehow become holy and obedient to Christ when his example is not?
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
      Posted On: 07/18/06 03:13:47 PMAge 42, MN
      Its fine to be Torah observant, and is something I personally am working on. Yet, very few people are at that stage in their walk, and thats ok. To some it may appear legalistic, yet the reason I try to be Torah observant is not because someone said do this, or do that, but because of my love for Christ. I think churches get a little too wound up telling people what to do, instead of focusing on the love of Jesus, and letting that love for Him change behavior as the Holy Spirit leads. These youngsters will grow in their walk with Christ over time. In the mean time, let them express themselves and their love for Him, and let the Holy Spirit convict them one way or another as he leads them. Tearing another brother or sister in Christ down does little for building up the church.
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  2. Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
    Posted On: 07/13/06 04:58:03 PMAge 45, GA
    I did a little digging on this festival. It's evident that the feminist agenda is hard at work to mislead young minds. It's also a subtle, (and at times overt), promotion of man-made paths to God, (higher quality meditation, rituals, etc.), rather than the only true path - repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ as savior and mediator.
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  3. Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
    Posted On: 07/13/06 04:08:25 PMAge 45, GA
    You are correct - we must not judge people by the exterior but by the fruit they produce. Pharisees looked great on the outside, by their current social/religious/political standards - but they were rotted and foul on the inside. "Whited sepulchres". It's getting tougher to really know who is part of the body of Christ today and who is still mired in their unregenrate sinful state. Sometimes those folks with tattoos really are into the occultic lifestyles, sometimes they're more productive for the Lord than a church full of what passes for "saints" today. There's a great way for anyone to be sure of their eternal destiny... go to http://www.livingwaters.com/good/ and take the test.
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/12/06 03:24:03 PM Age 26, IL
Just a follow up on my previous post. My Senior Pastor and I have discussed a topic at length of the entertainment mentality that is prevelent in churches today. Cornerstone is the extreme example of this mentality. Many have become so obsessed with numbers and the worlds version of success, which is prestige, numbers, etc. If all we do is entertain people, they will not want to hear about real Christian living which is hard. In Bible College we used to joke about the "Four Spiritual Laws" booklet that "God has a wonderful plan for your life, which may include martyrdom." We have lost sight of really living for God no matter how uncomfortable for our own entertainment. If this present emphasis on entertainment continues it will be the death of real Christian service. What is entertaining about going into the jungle to share Christ with people who just may kill you as Jim Elliot did? We need to return to true Christianity, not just entertainment. Pastor Luke Wolford pastorluke@calvarybaptistbiblechurch.com
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/12/06 03:17:12 PM Age 26, IL
WOW! I am amazed at what is going on even in my own back yard. When I was a kid I wanted to go to this camp, but my parents wouldn't let me. Thank God for parents that don't just give in. Anyway, one thing that really got my attention is that there was a professor from Moody there. I went to Moody and they are pretty sound doctrinally. I am surprised that this man would take his youth group there. I agree that it is important that we are aware of the facts and guard our youth against error. The only way we are going to do this is to teach the truth and teach our youth and adults how to think like Christians. Being able to apply biblical truth to their lives is and ability in short supply these days. Pastor Luke Wolford pastorluke@calvarybaptistbiblechurch.com
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/12/06 02:34:18 PM Age 49, MI
I remember when I got saved as a teenager back in the 70's. All night prayer meetings were the norm. Youth Camp was a time of drawing closer to God at the Altar of Repentence. There was genuine interest in the Word of God and it was taken as truth. Worship was holy hands lifted up to a Holy God. Revival broke out wherever Jesus was magnified and lifted up. Miracles took place. Christian youth wore t-shirts that glorified God and His Son Jesus....period. The only thing youth had in common with the world during that time was some guys had long hair. (No ear rings...no tatoos...no body piercing.) Oh yeah, we wore blue jeans too. God forbid! If you are a youth pastor or leader, pay attention to how the world in infiltrating the church and counterattack it by hosting an all night prayer meeting. Watch revival break out in your youth group as you seek God and His Son.
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  1. Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
    Posted On: 07/13/06 04:14:27 PMAge 45, GA
    Could you please define what you mean by revival breaking out? Please also tell us how the activities you describe here have contributed to accomplishing the mission of Jesus Christ. Personally, I'm trying to make the connection between the actions you describe and saving people from hell...and I've not been able to make them reconcile.
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/11/06 10:41:10 PM Age 53, OK
This is simply the logical consequence of the growing biblical illiteracy, compromise of the authority of Scripture, chasing after purpose driven seeker services and lack of discernment of the Church. It's man and flesh focused. It comes from failing to consider what it means to be holy. What happened to come out from them and be ye separate, doing all things to the glory of God? Contrary to popular opinion in the church, the Savior does not embrace all things as though they have no significance. Personal holiness is not legalism.
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/11/06 02:29:03 PM Age 25, CO
When I was a new christian I had the blessing of being exposed to very sound doctrine at the start. But I was also taught and re-taught the idea that in the name of unity we needed to not question anything that wasn't a major issue. I basically learned a list of "essentials", and as long as any teacher, church or ministry nodded "yes" to each of the points, they were fine, and I shouldn't be devisive if they seemed "off" in another area- after all, as I was told by my peers, the bible is a very difficult book to understand, and we can't really know about all these doctrines, so we should all just "love Jesus" and let God sort it out when we get to heaven. Never mind that this is not the perspective of Scripture, but of our present post-modern culture, and that this argument is usually taken by people who are either afraid to offend, or who, when faced by difficulties in understanding a particular text, don't push through and try to understand, but instead seem to lose their confidence in the clarity of even the plainest parts of scripture as well as the difficult! The end result was that I pushed back any misgivings I had about a teaching as long as the teacher gave lip-service to certain doctrines, instead of praying and searching the scriptures. When something seemed wrong (and was actually heresy), the peer pressure of all the other folks who thought it was a "word from God" made me wonder if I was crazy, or being too devisive. I wound up joining a mission agency that was very shaky in doctrine, because I was taught to tolerate error with the argument that it is possible for me to be wrong, so I shouldn't "judge" others for being wrong. Thankfully God arranged that I should come upon very sound teachers through radio and books (John MacArthur's broadcast being one, incidentally), right before a large conference that revealed lots of heretical teachings from the leaders of the organization (ie, that God doesn't know the future; that anything negative that happens is from Satan, and is a result of your lack of fervent, believing prayer; that it is a misrepresentation of God's character to speak of his wrath; that the proper way to evangelize is to tell someone what his spiritual gift would be if he were to be saved), which caused me (thankfully) to resign soon after. The moral of the story: We MUST be convinced of the truth, clarity, sufficiency, and holiness of scripture, and we must understand that there IS a correct meaning. Granted there are some passages where well meaning, Spirit-led believers may legitimately debate, but we must war against destructive heresies, for the love of everyone who will be pulled under by them if we don't. Many of my friends are still in that organization, convinced they are on the "cutting edge" of God's will and have something the rest of the Church doesn't, and being fed several different false versions of the Gospel, largely because they don't know how to read their bibles at all, or that there is objective, knowable truth that is worth fighting for.
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  1. Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
    Posted On: 07/12/06 12:21:28 PMAge 56, AR
    25 CO, I too listened to John McArthur very early on in my salvation. I also very much believe questioning or testing all spirits and doctrines, especially today. Brenda
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/11/06 02:00:07 PM Age 49, MI
Hmmm. This is very interesting. I have been to three seminaries, two of which have been in a very large metropolitian Kentucky city, one in Grand Rapids, MI. I will not mention names to protect those who are innocent. The first and the last seminaries were stable in their Biblical grounding. The second, which is in that large metro city in KY was so far off the mark, I could not believe my eyes. Wholesale approval of the Homosexual agenda with the first Morelight chapter in any "Christian Seminary" in the United States. (check out that word-Morelight). Senior tenured professors steeped in Bible History blatantly teaching from the pulpit about inclusivism, lighting a candle and praying for every homosexual graduate of that seminary without a full time pastorate. Being taught by that professor's doctoral student that the reason for Queen Vashti's refusal to come to the King's party and show herself to all was because she was having a lesbian party of her own.(See Esther 1, esp v 9) No other student found this appaling. I spoke up, challenged the doctoral student and asked where that is found in the Bible (for which we were supposed to be learning from). "It is not in there, it is in some outside reading I have been doing." I angrily told him to stick to the Bible for his information and facts. I left that seminary after I finished my Clinical Pastoral Education (and what an education I got!) Oh, I guess I forgot, this was nearly 10 years ago that I left that seminary, the same main stream denomination that has been seeking for a homosexual presence in the pulpit around the country, the same that signed a pact with three other denominations to share pastors because of a shortage. The slippery slope ends at the bottom of the pit filled with the sludge of paganistic beliefs, "Many will fall away"(Matthew 24). You know, I read an article just after that tragic day of September 11, 2001 written by George Barna. In a pre and post 9/11 study published in November 2001, Barna lays out some very significant facts that continue to explain why our country, founded on Christian principles, is now sliding into the pit. This article you wrote is just another example of a country that (84%) profess to be Christain, yet only 22% believe in an absolute moral truth and only 40% believes that the Bible is accurate in what it teaches. Go back and read Matthew 24 and, well, as Jesus says in v 13, "The one who endures to the end will be saved." So folks, the battle is only just begun. Put on your armor and prepare for the battle for it will be fierce and you will not know who your allies or enemies are. Only those in Christ Jesus will be saved. Blessings to you, Chaplain Kevin Van Horn Transport for Christ, International
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/11/06 12:06:07 PM Age 18, NY
If they are doing this, they are obviously not Christians....
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  1. Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
    Posted On: 07/13/06 02:03:15 PMAge 33, IL
    Whoa. Be *very* careful how you judge others' hearts, for in the same way, God will judge you. There are *many* godly, Bible-believing Christians who attend Cornerstone. If this article is accurate, it seems there is some heresy entering the ranks, which needs to be confronted and corrected. That is our God-given role. But it is *not* yours to judge the hearts of others. God has made himself exceptionally clear on that point.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
      Posted On: 07/13/06 03:55:58 PMAge 40, AR
      Ah, but this group is calling themselves Christian brothers and sisters in Christ. What they are doing is wrong and according to 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 we can "judge/discipline" them. We are not to "judge" those who do NOT call themselves brothers (and sisters) in Christ b/c God will do that (vs. 13).
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"...now is our salvation nearer..."
Posted On: 07/11/06 11:46:21 AM Age 53, VA
Rom 13:12 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. KJV Hard to believe what passes for Christianity these days. The pictures in your blog speak volumes. What horror! Thank you for your report. May God bless your efforts. RR
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Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
Posted On: 07/11/06 11:46:01 AM Age 58, TX
This article describes the sickness running rampant in the Body of Christ today. How sad that so often we [the adults presumably] do not have enough grounding in the Word to point out the errors, or the courage to speak out in our own churches when this error begins to creep in. I am so thankful for these ladies and their courage and WILLINGNESS to take a stand and to pay a cost to bring the Truth to these youth. One of the commentors mentioned about judging; an excellent book on this topic is Who Are You to Judge?: Learning to Distinguish Between Truths, Half-Truths and Lies by Erwin Lutzer, who is pastor of Moody Bible Church in Chicago. He has some other excellent books but this one in particular addresses the "judging" issue, which we REALLY need to have an answer for because the word "intolerance" is being thrown around more and more and it is simply a device used by the enemy and his servants to muzzle those Christians who have taken a stand. Thank you for sharing this very important information so that we can all pray for a situation about which many [I am one!] were/are ignorant.
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  1. Re: Re: Breaking News: Churches, Colleges, Youth Ministries and Mission Groups Embrace The Occult?
    Posted On: 07/21/06 11:02:42 PMAge 46, NC
    Intolerance - yes Christians are often called intolerant when we call sin evil and denounce it. One of my unsaved sisters asked me what happened to tolerance when we were discussing witchcraft and islam. i told her God was NOT a tolerant God and that you do things His way or you end up in hell. there is no hedging, hemming, or compromising with God. He has told us what is right and what is evil. Anything not of God is of satan. Period. No questions. It is up to us to read His Word and know what He expects from us and what He has determined is sin. We are NOT to tolerate evil nor are we to call evil good.
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