Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 09:41:54 AM |
Age 34, TX |
Yes, I strongly agree. And let me suggest three excellent books that help build on this theme:
Slouching Towards Gomorrah, by Robert H. Bork
The ACLU vs. America, by Alan Sears and Craig Osten
Public Education Against America, by Marlin Maddoux
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- Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 09/23/06 08:37:14 AM | | Age 17, NC |
An excellent book on the government school system is "Separating School and State" by Sheldon Richman.
It is available for purchase online at
Laissez Faire Books http://www.laissezfaire.org/
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- Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 07/07/06 11:59:16 AM | | Age 35, IA |
Also, The Harsh Truth About Public Schools, by Bruce Shortt. VERY enlightening.
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Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 09:21:01 AM |
Age 19, NC |
"All students from first grade through the twelfth should receive a strongly academic education that will well prepare them to be thinking, creative persons in life and in whatever career they choose."
WOW! This statement sums up perfectly what education should be about! Very good! It was very disturbing to learn about the questions concerning God that students are asked on a career test. House definately made a thought-worthy observation there!
Also, it is sad that so many Americans are unaware of what is really going on in the schools their children attend. I think those who do care to know what's going on should definately spread this article around. Print it out and pass it along!
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Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 08:41:32 AM |
Age 41, TX |
I read both of these articles and found them to be very scary. However, I am pretty uninformed about the program. Can you recommend some resources to learn more? I assume that private and home schools are not directly affected as they don't accept federal funds. However, will there be consequences by the time those private and home school students get to college? Will they be "redirected" when they get to college? Or perhaps refused?
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Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 07:34:29 AM |
Age 37, MN |
As an educator i really resent the mindset that the purpose of education is to get jobs. That may serve the corporate masters, and the government to have a bunch of unthinking obident drones that are incapable of independant thought, just indoctrinated in the political agenda. I think the schools do a really poor job at really preparing students for life.
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Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 05:39:26 AM |
Age 46, MO |
Considering that Americans have been being brainwashed in the public schools (I call them government indoctrination centers.) for around 100 years and that these schools have been getting increasingly worse and Christian parents still seem to think that they can reform them or that their schools are different, what kind of letters did you really expect to get? The majority of Americans went through the system. Christians should have pulled their children out long ago but it is easier to take handouts than to sacrifice!!!!!
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Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 04:33:37 AM |
Age 71, AR |
The 'be first' note still was up when I answered part I of Mr. Howse's essay. I expressed total agreement that the Florida example of requiring an early choice of a path toward a career is wrong and that the current federal 'No-Child-Left-Behind' law is effectively leaving every child behind his contemporaries in Europe and many other parts of the world. I expressed dismay that Mr. Howse's use of inuendo and labels---"Communist Way" for example---might incite the wrong reaction among the more radical and fanatical of his followers who have come to trust him for guidance. Review of the 'feedback' clearly shows that that happened. The word 'government' is used repeatedly as a pejorative---a swear word---forgetting that the great leap of faith that brought America into being and sustains it to this day is that the government is us. That idea was new then, and still is unusual. When we refer to government in a pejorative fashion, we are swearing at ourselves. We are contributing to the problem through the very non-Christian attitudes of self-loathing and hatred of others rather than striving to contribute to a solution. Within the last year, I became deeply involved in helping our local school board maintain its focus on the task of providing knowledge and perspective after a few people had demanded several books be withdrawn from the libraries. The demand was made in the name of "Christian Values." Elsewhere in the country, the same term has been used to attempt to control curriculum. I detest the idea of planning curriculi around labor market needs at least as much as does Mr. Howse, but I do not have his forum and influence. But when fully a third of the responders to his first essay---the responses that made it to the feedback list, that is---talk about withdrawing from the education system my dismay reaches the absolute and attains the label 'abject.' The choice of homeschooling must always be available, but so too must the understanding that it works successfully only through great effort by extraordinary parents with special children. It is not a choice to be taken lightly. Better, and almost always more beneficial to the children involved, to work closely with the professional educators. I have no doubt that the dire examples of students being 'told' to follow a career path, or even a course path, would not have happened if a parent had made an effort to work with, and influence appropriately, the educational professional involved. A parent has no more right to deny his child access to learning than he has to deny that child food, warmth or safety. But he has an obligation to the child and to society to participate in the child's progress. The child will benefit from parental supplementation of the classes, in almost every case, more than from withdrawal.
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- Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 01:37:03 PM | | Age 35, FL |
As a homeschooling parent, I can assure you that we are in no way extra-ordinary, and all parents think their children are special. In truth, we are ordinary people with an extra-ordinary GOD. Homeschooling is not for the elite, it's for the convicted (at heart). We strive to instill GOD's principles and stand on GOD's promises, and in doing so save our children from being brainwashed with cultural lies. Most homeschoolers do work closely with "professional educators", thereby giving their children the best educational choices. "Withdrawing from the system" is not an anti-american choice, it's a pro-Jesus choice.
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- Re: Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 05:58:37 PM | | Age 71, AR |
God and Jesus can be accomodated before or after school, and thus are not in themselves reason to deny children a normal education. How do you know the adult your child is soon to become will not wish the rest of his life he had the base knowledge and comradship he is missing? Withdrawing is a cop-out, an avoidance of responsibility to child and society. Further, it insults the concept of God to try to justify avoidance in His name. I can't imagine God likes being blamed for the sidestepping of human responsibilities.
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- Communist schooling --BEWARE! HEAVY SARCASM!
| Posted On: 06/27/06 01:32:06 PM | | Age 38, AR |
Talk about your fascists and communists!! Who exactly gets to decide which child is "special" and which parent is "extraordinary" and should be allowed to homeschool? Is there some sort of government test my family can take to determine if we qualify for independent thought? Of course if they find out we're capable of that, they'll round my children up in their government school paddy wagons (big, yellow, lots of seats)and send them to get "proper" educations from "trained professionals". Of course they will also have to find a job for me as well. "Stay-at-home-mom" is counterproductive to the good of society. I just hope that after I graduate from government bartender school, I can have Wednesday nights off for Bible Study! But if not, that's okay. I'm sure I will come to understand, through systematic reprogramming, that the "Common Good" is more important that the spiritual growth of me or my children. More importantly, I'm sure I will come to understand that I am not the one to decide what's best for my family since my college degree is not in education. Thank God (oops, sorry, I mean supreme ungendered governmentally approved essence)that there are people out there that are more qualified than I to do my thinking for me! That makes life so much easier!! I no longer have to worry about the future of my children since I know now that as soon as they hit ninth grade, they are suddenly going to be filled with the reasoning, cognition, understanding, and lifelong aspirations required to determine their life paths--pending government approval of course.
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- Education
| Posted On: 06/27/06 10:39:26 AM | | Age 35, VT |
Education of children is the responsibility of the adult. No matter how they choose to do that, whether they themselves or through the use of an "expert" educator, it still remains it is their responsibility to make sure that their children get the education they (the parents) desire.
The school-to-work programs will not damage or affect students who come from strong homes with involved families (and it should especially not affect those coming from Christian homes) It will affect those students who are disconnected from academic schooling, usually broken families, who's only hope is a program like this. They're not thinkers and most likely never will be.
Home schooling is possible for less than "extraordinary" parents and "special" children. It can be done by quite ordinary parents and not so special students. WHAT DO YOU THINK PARENTS DID BEFORE FORCED GOVERNMENT EDUCATION?
Education is not a right, it is a privilege and a responsibility. When you give it to the masses like air, it is taken for granted an un appreciated. Only by those students who come from strong families that value education appreciate education even through rough spots where they don't understand or see its value.
So any kind of scare tactic to "Pull your kids from public schools" is a waste of time. Good students learn inspite of bad schools and, although I'm not advocating placing students in tempting situations or "ugly" or "bad" environments, usually being surrounded by heathens and pagans (which we are everyday almost no matter where we go) will only reinforce the values they have been taught, depending especially on how strong those values have been internalized. No matter where parents send their child (public, private, christian, catholic) they need to remain vigilant. And that decision of how to educate their child depends on many variable, many of which are not even considered past "Can we afford this?" sad as it may be.
So, while this is clearly a Communist system being put into place and it should be countered, if you've done your job right as a parent and your child is doing their job right as maturing christians, it's not going to directly affect you. (Although I guess you could argue that uneducated, mindless sheep being "educated" in these programs will affect all of us, through higher taxes, death rates, accidents, etc.) Not even to mention their inability to think through and comprehend what Jesus has done for them.
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- Re: Education
| Posted On: 06/27/06 05:41:52 PM | | Age 71, AR |
Since when is Catholic not Christian? This otherwise is a good example of a radical, fanatical jerk-knee argument.
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- Re: Re: Education
| Posted On: 06/30/06 11:31:30 AM | | Age 42, NC |
So the government, the professional educators, the academic elite, the social workers... in a nut-shell the "Society" knows how to raise my children better than I do? Wow, how Orwellian. So the leftist mantra of, "it takes a village" to do anything of importance is how we whould then live, eh Comrade? Hoo-weee that must make me one of them thare fanatics and fundamentalists your wuz talkin 'bout. I guess I should have listened to my college english professor when he told me,"not everyone is cut out for college, maybe you should think about tech school, maybe mechanics, or plumbing." I finished college in spite of such academic snobery. Why, because I live in America, not North Korea, not China, not the USSR, and I wanted a college education. I wanted to give myself every opportunity available to better myself and learn. Anything less, and certainly anything mandated by "GOVERNMENT" or the NEA or any other elitist enterprise, is exactly what Mr. Howse called it, the Communist Way. If the child doesn't have the grades for college is one thing, if they can't afford it is a shame, but to be barred because of some arbitrary quota set by some industrialist, economist or government agency is frightening to anyone who can think, and think critically and indepentantly. Oh, how silly of me... indepentant thinking is not allowed. For the good of society thinking will now be done for you by those who can do it better and you will be told what to do, what to think and and where you can go, eh George?
Don
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- Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 10:13:52 AM | | Age 44, GA |
To the poster in disagreement with this article:
Read "The Underground History of American Education" by John Gatto (public educator for 30 years and NY state teacher of the year) and you will be enlightened. Read from the perspective of someone who has actually walked the path. It will give you understanding of the history leading up to current events. Howse's article is just the latest chapter of Mr. Gatto's book.
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- Re: Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 05:38:41 PM | | Age 71, AR |
So, I can list dozens that show positive ways to help solve the problem, starting with canning the regimes in the White House and the statehouse in Tallahassee, both of which the radical self-labeled conservative Christian right so vociferously claimed to have put in office. Go to your local school board and encourage it to reduce class sizes in the younger grades especially, hire enough tutors to actually teach failing kids to read, or volunteer in the library and read or listen to one or two at a time. Simplistic, but more effective than all this bitching/complaining.
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- Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 10:11:09 AM | | Age 38, WA |
It doesn't take extraordinary parents or special children to homeschool. It takes commitment both to God, to do what is right in his eyes and to our children, to give them the best education possible. There are numerous resources that make teaching at home more than feasible, but a joy and a pleasure. I have friends who have said that it is too hard or who try it but get themselves locked into trying to teach like a public school, it doesn't work that way and is overwhelming. I still love them and support them in their decision, but I am sad for them and for their children and for what they are truly losing by giving up. They believe that somehow God made me special and that's why I can school my children. I say they are making excuses, I'm not special, I'm commited to my Lord for whom I will face one day and be accountable to for my children. It's not easy and some days, I look longingly at that school bus, because then my house would be neat and organized! LOL Bet there are a few more out there feeling like me than not! But there are definite rewards to teaching my children I would otherwise not have. The closeness with my children, getting to see their eyes light up as they "get something" and KNOWING the character of my children. They bring me such joy and love, how can I do any less for them?
We aren't a public school but that is the wonder and joy...to watch your child's fascination as you open the world to him in a wonderful and God-centered way. Our public schools have become a machine, grinding out our children like a meat processor, while undermining parents and parental involvement at every turn. God did not give our government of the people the responsibililty nor the wisdom to train up our children. He gave the responsibility and with prayer, the wisdom, to me, the parent. My children are my joy, blessing, and honored privilege to raise up and dedicate to the Lord. Thank you Brannon for keeping us updated on America/Goals/Whatever Name They come up with 2000. :o)
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- Re: Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/27/06 05:30:15 PM | | Age 71, AR |
You deny it, but you ARE extraordinary. Did you know a homeschooler graduated with honors and commission in a very recent Naval Academy class? His younger sister just graduated from Berea College in Kentucky and has been hires as a high school teacher. The next sister is studying at Berea and there is one more to go. I hope you are teaching the history, math, language and science to accomplish such things, and instilling the joy of accomplishment, not just the fear of the system as so many others seem to be advocating in their comments.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: U.S.A. Schooling the Communist Way (Part 2)
| Posted On: 06/29/06 10:56:35 AM | | Age 38, WA |
Thank you for the time you have put into this discussion. I appreciate your concerns and for your kind response to my feedback. Yes, my children have a well-rounded education and that is because there is so much available for homeschoolers to choose from, it is overwhelming! LOL Which again points out that you don't have to extraordinary or special, just committed and informed. But you misunderstand if you think we want to overprotect and coddle our children. All the homeschoolers I know, not only provide a good education, they do it in a creative and fun way, so learning is fun. We also network with each other, sometimes co-oping when we have the same curriculiem for a subject. It makes for a lot fun and many times another viewpoint, because even though we are all christians, we have differing views at times. The discussions that arise from these instances are interesting, involving and thought-provoking, as well as, good examples to our children on how to debate and discuss with one another without being personal and hurtful. We have field trips together and do P.E. at the "Y" together. We are incredibily involved with our children but are not too insulated. I and I know others, would hate it if our children were not ready for what the world will throw at them. We simply feel it doesn't need to be in the world's timing, but in our own.
Once again thank you for your thoughtfulness in bringing your concerns to light. It is important to always keep a good focus on other's concerns so we don't miss something and regret it later.
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