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Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
Posted On: 06/29/06 07:57:58 AM Age 39, IA
I will assume that this is the Ark until demonstrated otherwise. There is more convincing evidence here then with any evolution theory ever! And the evidence of a global flood has been demonstrated for years. But what difference does it really make? Those that refuse to believe they are sinners before a just God will continue to sin and the religious crowds will continue to change their precepts and ideologies to fit the current lust of this generation. Only those that are truly looking for a relationship with God will find him. This discovery along with the events that are going to take place in the near future will without a doubt bring more to Him. You know, Jesus the one called Christ. The one that the world hates.
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  1. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 06/29/06 05:51:30 PMAge 46, HI
    The only scientists I have read who believe there is ANY evidence of a word-wide flood are all Fundamentalist Christians. That ought to say a lot about quality of this evidence, given that no one else finds it credible. The kind of evidence given has been things like clam shells on mountain tops and eratic boulders carried into the middle of the great plains, far from any mountain, far from their geologic source. Always such things are better explained than by a flood. The clams are in sedimentary stone, which cannot accumulate on top of mountains. Sediments never do that. The stones were carred by the enormous glaciers of the ice age, which eventually melted and left their glacial load behind. Etc.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
      Posted On: 07/02/06 07:51:57 PMAge 20, CO
      I am not going to say it is, I am not going to say it isn't. As far as this "global flooding" debate goes, I have something to say (just my opinion). There is geological evidence that shows the Mesopotamia area at one point did flood over entirely. Now remember, Mesopotamia is not the whole world as we see it, but back then, it was the whole world as its inhabitants saw it. It's all just a matter of perspective, the way things were perceived by the authors of the books may be different from the way we perceive things today. Don't take everything in the Bible too literally. Writers often use metaphores and, like I said, have a different perspective.
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    2. Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
      Posted On: 06/30/06 10:52:39 AMAge 44, VA
      No evidence for a world-wide Flood... you have to be kidding. I will give you a few... - 70% of gelogic rock is sedimentary meaning laid down by a flood(s). Where did the sediments come from. - Some sedimentary layers are over 300,000 square miles (ever seen a flood large enough to lay down sediments the size of a large country?) - The layers are not one laid down, they are sorted. Fine quartz layer in the US is 50,000 square miles (do you know any floods that sort sediments -a world wide flood would). - There is no erosion between the layers. How come if they were laid down over millions of years. - There is no meteors except in the top most layers and never below the sedimentary layer. Not what we were taught. - Polystrate trees (petrified) are found all over the world cutting across many layers. - Whales have been found at a 45 dress angel in diatomaceous earth. - In Syberia and Alaska there is 1000's of feet of muck (not soil) that cantains the remains of animals (including wooly mammoths) and plants and even ancient forrests - they are not petrified, they are frozen. I could continue... no evidence? Really? Just because a group of people believe something doesn't mean they have studied the facts and are being genuinely "open minded" to go where the evidence leads.
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    3. Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
      Posted On: 06/30/06 10:30:05 AMAge 19, NC
      You are right... most who believe in the worldwide flood that the Bible says happened are fundamental Christians... because other scientists are to busy trying to disprove God's existance to a) delve into the study in depth and b) present any evidence that they do find that supports the theory because it would support the Biblical account, therefore proving that the Bible was true, and ultimately proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that God is real and is the God of the Bible. No, sadly, most will never put their FAITH in God and will instead search for any answer that proves that He doesn't exist or that He didn't create the world around us. They tend to leave out or explain away any evidence that supports the Bible. Look at evolution... scientist have come up with several different theories of how the world began, most of them even more absurd-sounding than the one THEY claim is crazy. I'm sorry, but noone will ever prove to me that my God is not responsible for the complexities of the human body and its environment. Noone will ever prove to me that His Word is not true. Noone will ever prove to me that God is not capable of flooding the earth (By the way, for some who believe their wasn't enough water to do so, they should research the canopy theory.)that He created.
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      1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
        Posted On: 06/30/06 03:22:47 PMAge 37, MN
        As to where the water came from and good scientific theory explaining this and much more you need to study and understand the claims of the "Hydro-plate Theory" as postulated by Dr. Walter Brown (www.creationscience.com) by far the best evidence and science I've seen anywhere on the subject of origins and a global flood. Ann Coulter is right- Darwinism is a crock.
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        1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
          Posted On: 07/02/06 07:36:29 PMAge 31, NY
          Walt Brown's hydroplate/flood theory has to be fact. Look at footnote 42 http://creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview9.html It can predict the actual shape of a fracture zone as well as other specific characteristics that plate tectonics fail on. This isn't some contrived theory that relies on miracles and numerous assumptions. Also, partially fossilized dinosaur bones with flexible soft tissues have been found. See http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/0324_050324_trexsofttissue_2.html Does that picture look like something millions of years old? Interestingly, you also won't find that picture in any creationist book or website. This was found by evolutionists-you can't deny this evidence. Ari
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Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
Posted On: 06/28/06 11:07:47 PM Age 46, HI
I am a Christian, raised a Fundamentalist, who has gradually, out of honesty and nothing else, had to come to the conclusion that the story of Noah's flood is not real as described in the Bible. It's not a view I want to hold but you have to be dishonest with the evidence to hold any other view. 1) I, too, have found fossils on top of high mountains. But we know that clams are not fast creatures. They could never rise with a rapidly rising sea to colonize sand in high places. Nor does such sand accumulate in high places. The fossils are always found in limestone, sandstone, shale, and other sedimentary stones. Floods don't wash sediments uphill to perch on mountain peaks. They wash them down. So, clams on mountains are not evidence of a flood. They are evidence that what is now a mountain was once a fairly flat sea bottom where sediments could accumulate. That the sea bottom is now hundreds of miles from any sea and thousands of feet in the air is a testiment to a great length of time involved. 2) I, too, have found pieces of petrified wood in petrified forests. They look very much like what Cornuke shows in his photo, including the fact that several of my pieces have broken at perfect right angles, as if sawn. The fact is, that's the way petrified wood sometimes breaks. It shears off. Unless, they have evidence of saw marks, it does not provide evidence of human activity on the wood. Given that they found fossilized clams on the mountain, this is an area of sedimentary stone, which means fossilized wood is also possible. But there is no evidence presented in their photos or writings of human working. That the wood looks hand-hewn ... well, so do some of my pieces of petrified wood. It often breaks along its grain, just as if someone had split it. 3) There is not enough water in all the sky and all the ice caps and under the earth to come anywhere close to creating Noah's flood in the manner described. Even the ancients knew the sky could not rain that much, so the story says that fountains from the deep welled up. What they didn't know is that all springs are mountain water that runs down through cracks in the mountain ranges, flows through porous soils, until it finds a place at lower elevations to emerge ... where the crack emerges or where the porous soils emerge. So, the earth's crust does not rest on a sea of water. It is simply cracked and porous and, so, water from distant mountains finds it way down those cracks and through caves, etc. until it meets the sea. That water cannot flood the highest mountains anyway because if you extracted it out of the ground, it would all flow immediately back into its own void. 4) So, pseudo-scientists have posited that the earth's crust turned over and the mountains flattened so that the seas we have could well up through the cracking crust and cover it all. The problem with that is that it doesn't aid the Noah story one bit because that's not how the story says it happened. The story says it happened from rains. If the crust broke up that severely, that would be a far greater story than the flooding. There is also no evidence that the earth's curst ever turned over in such a world-wide fashion. 5) There is excellent evidence that the Black Sea was formed as the result of a catastrophic flood at exactly the same time as "Noah's flood." The Bosprous strait cracked open, allowing the Mediterranean Sea to pour in, no doubt even to well up through deep cracks in huge fountains as it poored through the fault line of the Bosporous. Within a hundred days, the Black Sea went from being a much smaller fresh-water lake to the salt-water sea that it is today. And there is evidence of human civilization down around what would have been the old coastline of the original fresh-water lake, now 500 feet below sea level. The Black Sea, of course, lies right at the base of the "mountainS of Ararat." And it did this all in about a hundred days, not much more than Noah's forty nights and forty days. That, I'm afraid is the best evidence of Noah's flood ... but it was a long way from being worlwide.
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  1. Re: Noah?s Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 07/06/06 10:38:54 AMAge 47, IN
    Download the document at http://evolution-facts.org/Downloads/Evolution%20CruncherP.pdf Read it and then tell me with a straight face you can believe the evolution fairy tale. There is too much evidence refuting evolution to take it seriously. It takes more faith to believe in the "molecules to man" theory than everything was created by a divine being.
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  2. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 07/05/06 05:16:14 PMAge 34, MD
    If the Bible was only referring to the flood of the Black Sea area, then why does it say: "Gen 6:17 - And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life, from under heaven; [and] every thing that [is] in the earth shall die." The Bible is clear that everything on the earth was destroyed - not just everything in a small area. The Bible needs to be taken literally when the statements it makes are made in such a way to be taken literally. There's no metaphors in the text about the flood that would lead one to believe anything other than a world-wide flood. This is a prime example of what so many people get wrong. They try to make the Bible fit what they think is the truth, instead of trusting the Bible as the truth and making everything else conform to it. Either it's the Word of God, or it isn't. If it is, then trust it to be just that.
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  3. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 07/02/06 07:38:32 PMAge 50, NC
    I'm a little confused. You said you are a Christian and that out of honesty you have come to the conclusion that the Noah account is not true. So is God the liar or are you wrong? How can you believe the gospel and then also say the Bible is a lie? If even one statement in the Bible is a lie, it's nothing more than a secular work and worthy of fire because it claims to be the Word of God. If there is a lie in the Bible then your faith is in vain. You can't have it both ways. Mary Kay
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    1. Re: Re: Noah?s Ark & Flood Not Real
      Posted On: 07/06/06 03:50:04 AMAge 46, HI
      I say that honesty compels me to disagree with the flood story because all of the so-called science that supports the idea that there was a flood seems truly pathetic to me when I give it an HONEST look. I say I come by my opinion honestly because I WANT Noah's Flood to be true. As you say, the Bible begins to unravel if such a central story is not true. WHO KNOW WHAT ELSE IN THE BIBLE MIGHT NOT BE TRUE IF NOAH'S FLOOD ISN'T??? That's exactly why people go to such pains to prove the Noah story true, and it's exactly why so many people will accept any poor evidence that comes along as good enough for them. It is painful to move away from your moores. I say I come by my position honestly because the science against a flood is huge and consistent around the world. I would prefer that it was not, but I have to be honest and admit it is because, as a Christian, I feel more called to honesty and truth than security. Can I still be a Christian? I hope so. Sometimes I wonder. I certainly will gladly submit my will to Christ's will wherever I know what his will is. C.S. Lewis is usually regarded as being a Christian, and he said, long after his conversion, that the Bible was a book that began in myth and fable and ended in fact. You can be sure he was including the Noah story in that beginning. I'd still like to see the ark discovered. It's a LOT easier to be a Fundamentalist Christian.
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  4. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 07/02/06 06:26:00 PMAge 51246, IA
    I concur and agree 100% that there was no global flood. as for some one saying something about geological proof of it, you obviously havent went,seen and studied the geology of the planet. I started a fundementalist like most but as education and exploration of the planet and human history progress I/we learn more about our true past. People that realy care about the truth will go and see for themselves. however if a geologist that was actually worth his salt were to go and see this Alledged ark. he would conclude that this is petrified wood of a great age that was probably plained by a glacier or some simple other force!!!! After 25 years of actually going to the field to study geology I can see no evidence of a global flood and evidence to the contrary. If you are interested in real truth i recomend a trip to actualy see gods handy work rather then follow old stories.may I recomend the badlands of South Dakota.millions of years of ash deposits multiple mass events, and human habitation that spans 12,000 years at,least. You know in reality the old earth scenario is much better, it is more logical and doesnt rely on inscest to perpetuate the species.
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    1. Re: Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
      Posted On: 07/04/06 12:27:54 AMAge 65, WI
      I too have studied geology and especially paleontology. I was a part of the largest paleontology study ever done in N. America. What I learned in that study first was how flawed the theory of evolution was. Yet as we know all the major universities in America and around the world continue to spread its flawed arguments and refuse to consider all the scientific data that refutes evolution. Today I see much of academia wanting to wipe God out of the debate of where we came from, why are we here and where are we going? Like the scriptures state, "The fool says there is no God".
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  5. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 06/30/06 11:09:45 PMAge 59, DE
    I would ask you to read the Genesis account of creation one more time. This time,do not look at the earth as you know. Look at the globe of earth with a canopy of water above and water below as described. Then go to the accounting of Noah. The rains came, the founts of the deep opened for 40 days and forty nights. Now remember that the northeast just got pounded with rainstorms---some states getting 15"s of rain in about 7 hours. I'm sure God could pour it out with even more vengeance when he chooses. Now think of a gallon of water weighing about 8 pounds. How many pounds of pressure do you think would be pressing against the crust of the earth if the water was higher than the highest mountain at that time? And the water was on the earth for months before it began to evaporate off. It took a year plus for Noah to set foot on dry land. That kind of pressure for that long would upheave the earths mantle, remake the landscape, change the rock stratas...everything that the geologists and scientists are saying took billions of years. Thousands and ten thousands of animals would congregate in areas to get away from floods and get trapped. Down the line we would call these places tar pits. If you can't believe creation, than what sense is it to believe in God since it is the Bible, His Word, that defines Him. It would seem that you are choosing what characteristics you want God to have and might as well make him a character in a video game. Faith in God is belief in God's Word. They must go hand in hand or why believe any part of the Bible? Just some food for thought. God bless you and keep you.
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    1. Re: Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
      Posted On: 07/02/06 08:02:18 PMAge 31, NY
      I think you also have to read Part 2: the hydroplate theory on www.creationscience.com We have real answers-not contrived ideas. So let's use them! Ari
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  6. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 06/30/06 03:36:02 PMAge 37, MN
    Investigate the claims of the "Hydro-plate Theory" a scientific theory by Dr. Walter Brown www.creationscience.com well worth your time sir. Thank You.
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    1. Re: Re: Noah?s Ark & Flood Not Real
      Posted On: 07/06/06 03:58:33 AMAge 46, HI
      The hyrdo-plate theory, if you're referring to the theory I'm familiar with has a huge problem. The idea is that the earth experienced a cataclysmic domino effect on all of its tectonic plates, which resulted in the continents sinking until they could be submerge and then breaking up and moving from Pangea (a single super-continent) to their present array. The problem is that the spreading of the sea floor can be shown not to have happened in a few short years by the sediment that's built up over the divide. The sediment should all be a uniform thickness if the oceans were created by one single parting, and it isn't. It gets thinner and thinner as one gets closer to the cracks that run down the center of our major oceans, indicating the ocean floor is newer and newer the closer you get to the actual crack. The spreading of actual crack has been measured, and the current rate of spread is consitent with a very old earth and consistent with the gradual change in sediment (if I recall my geology correctly). Also the plate theory would have made Noah's flood the least of Noah's problems. The tsunamis released by the entire crust breaking up would have made the tsunami we saw in the indian ocean from a single comparatively small crack seem like a squirt gun. And the heat released from so much mantle rising to the surface in so short of time would have steamed Noah and his animals into a tender stew. It's another case of unreasonable science that is only believed by people who are already Fundamentalists.
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  7. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 06/30/06 09:00:30 AMAge 26, LA
    You cannot claim you are a Christian if you do not believe the Bible! It doesn't matter if you believe this discovery is or isn't the Ark of Noah! If you are a TRUE CHRISTIAN you believe in God and His Word (Bible)!!!!!
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  8. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 06/30/06 07:20:28 AMAge 40, TX
    The gentleman is diluting himself, and explaining away archeological evidence without study. Being raised a fundamentalist does not make you a Christian any more than being an acheologist makes you an unbiased observer. It appears the poster is spending more time dismissing God than the find in Iran. Fortunately, the ultimate evidence of the Ark/God is to come in His time. If you give the power of the Flood to God, you have to give the power of creation, so how do we know these mountains were never on the floor of the sea? Again, study of the find is important, but God will not take away our free will. However, he can take away the pain of being abused by a father under the false illusion that it is "Fundamental Chrisitanity". The true proof that you are truly a fundamental Christian is not that you are a skeptic for no reason - that is a sign of pain. Let God deal with your heart first, and then you will give Him the Creation, Flood, Son, Resurrection. Remember, our 10% brains are clouded from the Fall of Man and although we can create tissue and organs in a laboratory with stem cells, we can't possible believe that God literall created Adam "in His image"? I would refer you to creationism.org to anser the issues that you argue to divert from the necessary part of believing in the Ark or the Theory of Evolution: Faith.
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  9. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 06/29/06 09:51:51 PMAge 51, FL
    I suggest you go go listen to Chuck Missler's commentary on the Blue Letter Bible site in regard to the account of Noah's ark. He says it better than I ever could as far as presenting the evidence for a world wide flood and Noah's ark. In fact he even predicted it would be found. It is very interesting why he thought it would be found. You either believe the Bible is the word of God or you don't. There is no middle ground on that one.
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  10. Re: Noahs Ark & Flood Not Real
    Posted On: 06/29/06 06:57:06 PMAge 53, WA
    Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The same way you say you are a Christian, my friend. Faith in what the Bible says, (the Mind of Christ) 1 Cor 2:16 about the object of your faith, Jesus Christ. The world has no answer for you. Why look there for God's plan. They do not know God. Go back to the Word of the Perfect God Who saved you and believe what is written so you might believe. There is no shame in questioning what the Bible says, but eventually you either believe it or you don't. with love (and truth) in Christ Mike
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Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
Posted On: 06/28/06 09:39:01 PM Age 32, MO
this was exciting to me. i would like to know the date which it was discovered, was it 6/6/6? i would also like to point out something phenomenal here. please note that i am not directly quoting but this is what i remember so the wording isnt exact but it doesnt have to be. when the disciples asked jesus,"teacher what will be the sign of your return?" jesus answered unto them saying," it will be as in the days of noah." then he goes on to talk about alot of sinful things like incest, debuchary, murder etc. what is fascinating is that it will be as in the days of noah. well what better sign than finding noahs ark? to me this is what he meant by this statement because the truth in the bible can be found in many layers and still be true. this is just more proof that he will return soon people!!
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  1. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 06/30/06 09:42:37 AMAge 43, UM
    Okay, I too think it is interesting that this object was found and most interesting that it is close to fitting the dimensions mentioned in the Old Testament. That, of course, should be the key point here...OLD TESTAMENT... and to use such a discovery or assumed discovery to bolster the Christian cause is down right inane. Noah existed, if he did, thousands of years before Jesus Christ. The Old Testament was not written for Christians, as the concept of Christian was not recognised until 2000 odd years ago. If anything, this discovery by fundamentalist Christians is a boon, a godsend, to Judaism, for it was for them and by them that the Old Testament was written. To say that this points to the return of your Christ is absurd, immature and even frivolous. Amen and Amen from Billy in Helsinki.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
      Posted On: 06/30/06 09:45:15 PMAge 69, WA
      Someone needs to study their Bible because Jesus Christ is taught from Gen 1:1 on!
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      1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
        Posted On: 07/02/06 07:28:35 PMAge 55, TX
        can you explain your statement: Jesus Christ was taught in Gen. 1.1 stephen
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Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
Posted On: 06/26/06 12:14:22 PM Age 40, TX
Here is where literalism gets it wrong. There is no evidence of a global flood. But for argument sake lets say there was, and Noah's ark is on the moutain, and Noah was able to collect enough of all animals and insecte etc... to repopulate the world. One if GOD is truth and absolute and sin is sin always in the eys of god, do pray tell why would GOD have condoned incest? There is no way for the world to one be populated with as many people as we have, especially the variations in skin color, body frames etc in such a short time, nor could we have the diversity in animal and insects that we have -- unless of course evolution is actaully possible.
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  1. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 07/02/06 08:14:32 PMAge 31, NY
    You can get a poodle, a dalmation and a doberman from a wild dog but you will never get a dog that turns into a cat. Also, if a bunch of dogs refuse to breed with other dogs, we would technically call that group a new species of dog but that isn't evolution. Speciation is just a process of separation and nothing too remarkable. But it's a clever mindgame for evolutionists to play because most people think a new species is something really new and it isn't.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
      Posted On: 07/21/06 04:11:00 PMAge 46, FL
      TO: PM Age 31, NY Can you please define the word "species"...? Have you taken any coursework in evolutionary biology? If not then you have no right to argue the point just as an evolutionist ignorant of the bible has no right to argue against its teachings. What you say in your post almost describes evolution. Using your example of a dog: if a group of these animals are bread to display different adaptive characterists they are STILL the same species. As long as the new breed of dog can achieve offspring with any other dog it is in the same species. If at some point in this "artificial selection" process offspring can no longer be achieved with others of the dog species (no matter how many times they try to mate) but can, instead, only be achieved by mating within this new breed, a new species comes about. This is an element of the theory of evolution. In nature this selection process is called "natural selection". Changes in regional food supply, climate and many other factors will bring about adaptations in groups of animals that, theoretically, can bring about a new species that no longer can reproduce with other groups of the previous species. This supposedly happens if enough enviromental pressure is applied over a long period of time. Im not saying I believe that all this happens. There is just no way to prove it. Maybe God did provide for this in nature. Who knows. BUT, I dont think a Christian has the right to argue about something they know little or nothing about. The only way you can effectively present your argument is to KNOW the opposing sides ideas and philosophies thoroughly. THEN you can state your learned argument.
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  2. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 06/30/06 11:35:56 PMAge 59, DE
    If you are asking who Cain, Abel, Shem, etc married or had children by in the early days, it was obviously with their own sisters. Yes we would consider it incest. And scientifically a disaster in modern times because of all the dna problems it would now cause. However, back in early times, DNA was fairly well perfect. There was no pollution in the world then and no time for mutations to occur that would be medical or mental catastrophes. People lived for 700-900 years. Each name listed in the Genesis geneology states "and had many sons and daughters". God built diversity into DNA. Since then, natural selection, survival of the fittest, and directed breeding has given us variations on God's initial themes. And pollution (natural and spiritual) has taken its toll on our DNA and our lifespans. Try not to put God in a box. Don't reference him using your reference points. Job chapter 38 describes God in a way that leaves no doubt about his power and greatness. No way can we fathom him. Worth the read.
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  3. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 06/28/06 10:36:21 AMAge 50, OK
    Just because we can't understand how things can be doesn't make them not real or true. The Bible is accepted as literally true by people who have a one-to-one relationship with the author. For the person who can't believe in a world wide flood, test that relationship and listen to what the author says. The answers to what and why the author wrote the manuscript as he did come more readily to those who meet and know the author. Since He can't lie neither can his words lie. And by the way, since neither of us were around at the time, we aren't as good authority as the eye witness testimony of God.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
      Posted On: 06/29/06 06:48:18 AMAge 44, TN
      Amen! There was no incest among Noah's family. The bible is spiritually written and must be spiritually discerned. One MUST have a personal relationship with the author. It is mostly written in parables, and cannot be read from the Genesis to Revelations in that order and expect to be understood. Develop that personal relationship with the author and you will understand. If you go to church, the true leaders of the Church of God can help clear up your grave misconceptions.
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  4. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 06/27/06 09:44:34 AMAge 19, NC
    "One if GOD is truth and absolute and sin is sin always in the eys of god, do pray tell why would GOD have condoned incest? There is no way for the world to one be populated with as many people as we have, especially the variations in skin color, body frames etc in such a short time, nor could we have the diversity in animal and insects that we have -- unless of course evolution is actaully possible." Isn't is funny how little tiny words can have such a great big meaning. There is no IF with God. God IS absolute and sin IS always sin in His eyes. First, do you even know who was on the ark? Noah, his wife, their three sons, and their sons' wives. It's not like they commited insest with their mother. The closest you would get to insest would be cousins marrying cousins and people do that lots even today. Second, the ark was pretty big, bigger than a football field. It could very well have held the animals that the Bible says it did. Also, since (not IF) God IS absolute, it also means He's absolutely powerful. He can create as many different and wonderful species as He wants, he can destroy the creation because of its sin if He wants, and He can cause the world to be repopulated once again, all WITHOUT evolution's help.
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Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
Posted On: 06/25/06 11:37:31 PM Age 56, IN
How exciting! I'm looking forward to a detailed television documentary. I have believed for a long while it was up there on that Mount. How curious God's timing is to show it for sure now. I believe Jesus is at the door to call his followers to meet Him in the clouds. I have also thought for a long time; when believers suddenly disappear the media will say we've been abducted by aliens. There are lots of unknown objects sighted. I think it is demon activity. Well, w/the ark found & soon to be authenticated what might be next? Maybe Solomon's temple? We'll see..May God bless you all...Sandy McAnally Leak
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Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
Posted On: 06/24/06 10:01:43 AM Age 43, OR
I don't believe that God is pleased that so much time and money is spent on trying to prove the existence of the Ark. I believe He would be more pleased if men used the money and time spent on their expeditons to instead feed and clothe the orphans and widows of the country the Ark rests in. In reference to salvation the apostle Paul said; "Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." As Christians we shouldn't seek for signs to prove to the world that the Bible is true. When we stoop to the worlds method of having to see to believe, then we risk falling into unbelief ourselves. If God has preserved the Ark for a time of revelation to the world, then we can rest in the fact that He will reveal it when He is ready. Until then we must show the world that we believe even in the absence of pysical proof. After all the word of God says; "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Indeed, by faith, our ancestors received approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible. By faith, Noah, warned by God about events as yet unseen, repected the warning and built an ark to save his household; by this he condemned the world and became an heir to the righteousness that is in accordance with faith" Heb. 11:1-3,7. I believe that too many Christians are trying to prove to the world that God exists because of all the damage that the atheists have done. But we must remember the warnings in 2nd Petter 3:1-7 that say; "This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you; in them I am trying to arouse your sincere intention by reminding you that you should remember the words spoken in the past by the holy prohets, and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken through your apostles. First of all you must understand this, that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts and sayng, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!" They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water, through which the world of that time was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire, being kept until the day of judgement and destrcution of the godless." If we as believers think that finding the Ark will make believers out of an unbelieving world then we will be sorlely disappointed. We should be directing the worlds attention to the true ark of salvation on the true mountain of God and stop worrying about finding ancient artifacts. Afterall, God will reveal what He wants revealed in His own timing and not ours.
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  1. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 06/28/06 02:42:41 PMAge 51, FL
    well told,but if god didn't want it to be found? why did God give us a road map in his word as to where it rested until this day,remember thomas needed proof even though he was an apostle-GOD BLESS
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  2. Noah's Ark
    Posted On: 06/27/06 10:46:54 AMAge 41, NC
    "As Christians we shouldn't seek for signs to prove to the world that the Bible is true." This person is ignorant of true science and how it relates to the Bible. His post justifies a reliance upon blind faith without a basis in fact. The discovery of Noah's Ark is certainly unnecessary for justifying an acceptance of the Christian faith. However, if true, it would serve as a great testimony that could silence the voices of many skeptics IF the unbelievers will believe the EVIDENCE. This poster would do well to quote Hebrews 11:1 in the King James version: "Now faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen." True faith is based upon EVIDENCE. Evidence exists all around us that the Bible is true: Psalm 19:1 "The heavens declare the glory of God..." May God grant the explorers wisdom in their continued studies concerning the alleged site of Noah's Ark. May He bless and protect each one involved, and give them discretion as they present the evidence to the world! Jeff Setzer Creation Family Ministries
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    1. Re: Noah's Ark
      Posted On: 06/28/06 10:06:31 AMAge 43, OR
      "This person is ignorant of true science and how it relates to the Bible." That is what my father, an atheist, tells me too. For years I have tried to prove the Bible to him, even recently giving him an Evidence Bible. But I have come to the conclusion that people come to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ and believe that God's word is true as the Holy Spirit draws them and the person surrenders their ungodly beliefs, but not by finding ancient artifacts. I sincerely doubt that finding Noah's ark would silence my dad or make him believe that the Bible is true. He would simply attribute it to one of the pagan myths of the ark that have circulated the earth for thousands of years. However, I suppose people who are wating for Noah's ark to be found to put their faith in Christ, would be blessed by the discovery of Noah's ark. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Noah's Ark, but I just think there has been a lot of time and money wasted looking for it. If God wants us to find the Ark then He will reveal it. In the meantime I think we hurt the cause of Christ by trying to prove its existence. In closing, Hebrews 11:1 says; "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence (Strong's Concordance: #1650-proof,conviction) of things not yet seen." Therefore, I believe we are more blessed when we believe in "things not yet seen" as confirmed by Jesus himself in John 20:29. "Then Jesus said to him, "Thomas because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
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  3. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 06/24/06 03:27:45 PMAge 44, KZ
    God lives in us by His Holy Spirit, we have the mind of Christ. Atheists and Agnostics really sit up and think about things eternal when they hear and see that the ark of Noah has been found. It is seed sown that gets unbelievers thinking about spiritual things. We must use every possible way to awaken the unsaved and get them saved. Winning souls is our mission. Finding Noah's ark is just another "tool" to reach an unsaved, lost world. If this discovery plays a part in winning just one soul into the Kingdom, THEN IT WAS WORTH IT ! Awesome stuff Keep up the diligent work Team. God bless, in Christ Jesus Gavin Stone
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Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
Posted On: 06/22/06 12:05:15 PM Age 27, NY
The pictures given are clearly rock. What tests were performed to show that they are wood?? You mentioned the pressence of 'marine fissiles' in the sample. Did you mean marine fossils? That should show that they are rock, not petrified wood. Also, there seems to be a general misunderstanding here, and with most ark stories. Wood does not petrify on its own, merely because its old.
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  1. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 07/02/06 07:34:57 PMAge 55, TX
    You are incorrect my friend. I do believe wood does actually petrifi on it's own. Man has nothing to do with it. It happens naturally in a process that has known parameters for it to happen. How did you think it got petrified anyway? stephen
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  2. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 06/24/06 03:34:58 PMAge 44, KZ
    Just a note We have a couple of places here in South Africa that we have found petrified wood I have seen them myself, they are tree's, as in logs of solid rock. They form as a result of time. Interesting is that petrified logs are all found along our coastline , ie salt water God bless
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Re: Noahs Ark is on Mt. Ararat
Posted On: 06/21/06 07:37:41 PM Age 45, NM
Hi Brannon : First, in Gen. 8:4, it says, the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. (NASB). In Gen. 11:2 it says "... as they journeyed east ..." (NASB), not "from the east". I will have to look it up in the Hebrew to see exactly how it is worded. Also, there is some information that you should be aware of with regard to the ark. There has been evidence that it is on Mt. Ararat at the 14K ft level in the ice. From my understanding, it is on the Armenia side (North-Northeast side) of the Mountain (South of Georgia). From my understanding, most of the searches have been from Turkey on the SW side around Davis canyon, so they never found it there. I do not know the mountain, so my directions for the canyon may be inaccurate. Over the years U2 pilots, according to their testimony, have spotted the ark on Mt. Ararat. Ark hunter Dr. Don Shockey ran into an individual from NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) who told him that they could see the ark if it was there on the mountain. NRO spotted 4 objects on Mt. Ararat at ~14,000 ft under the ice that were definitely man made. It appears that the ark is now broken into 4 parts. The NRO would not release the photos of the objects, but they did give Don the locations of those objects. Don and (I think it was) Dr. Carl Baugh flew over the mountain in a Russian aircraft and took pictures of objects that they believe is the ark. However it was mostly covered in ice and snow. I have not seen the pictures yet. In the summer of 1990 Don was planning a trip to climb up to the ark now that he had the locations, but the government of Turkey would not allow any Americans on the mountain. At that time the individual at the NRO was giving Don an update on the thickness of the ice over the ark every two weeks when the satellite would fly directly over the mountain. Then in the summer of 1990, the Gulf War began. You should contact Don and get his full story of the details on the ark, including pictures and the exact locations. It is a fascinating story. Here is the last contact information that I have for him. Dr. Don Shockey (505) 847-0455 401 Cedar St., Mountainair, NM 87036 You should also contact Dr. Steven Collins at Trinity Southwest University and the Museum of Archaeology and Biblical History with regard to archaeological sites that have supposedly been found. He has been involved with the dig sites of Ai and the current dig at Sodom. Dr. Steven Collins, Trinity Southwest University 10110 Constitution NE, Albuquerque, NM 87112-5208 On Campus: 505-332-4253 Distance Education (Toll Free): 877-252-8521 Fax: 505-332-769 Contact me by e-mail if you have any questions regarding this. Take care! Terry
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Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
Posted On: 06/21/06 03:02:17 PM Age 46, OR
Not being an archeological or geological scientist, I can't answer most of the questions. BUT, I am an engineer and pretty analytical by nature. Two statements in the article seem to lack consistency with the account recorded in the bible: First, a "marine fissile" is not an item, it's two adjectives used senselessly as a noun. I'm going to for now assume that the writer is referring to a shard of shale or other sedimentary stone typically formed underneath seas. Either way, the bible account tells of the ark landing on top of a mountain ...where shale MAY or may not exist. Since they had mountains formed by the same natural forces then as we have now, and we have mountains with and without evidence of once being on the bottom of an ocean (or at least a bio-rich shoreline), the so-called "marine fissile" means nothing and proves nothing. The second statement that seems inconsistent is the "thousands of seashells" statement. So? For the same reasons cited in the "marine fissile" remarks, I can't see how this bears any proof or disproof for stating that these 'stones' are perhaps Noah's ark. If anything, the (assumed) shale, clam shells, and possible ship remains would support the hypothesis that all of the above existed together at the time of the upheaval which formed these mountains. I think the bottom line here is that the (possible) ship remains and other observations around the area really mean nothing. Oh, and why were there no real scientists on the exploration trip? Seems fishy ...I'm a born-again Christian, but very skeptical of those that make strong statements based on weak evidence, regardless of what faith or lack of faith they have. As a Christian, we must maintain the highest ethical and moral standards so that what we state cannot be effectively debated and can only be found as truth. Thx, Brian
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  1. Re: Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
    Posted On: 07/02/06 07:41:03 PMAge 55, TX
    It's always good to look at things with some unacceptance i guess. In the end, disregarding one's ability to use language in a "better than thou" manner, it comes down to very simple facts to prove. Is it petrified wood. Is it the dimensions or near the dimensions noted in the Bible. Is it on the mountain referenced in the Bible. I'd say, engineer or not, if these 3 items are answered yes, then it's going to be more difficult to prove it is NOT the ark than to prove it is. The biblical writing can be proven to have been written thousands of years ago with scientific absolute proof. What are the odds that these 3 items would have been written about thousands of years ago and show up now as true facts. Stephen Engineering Degree, Christian.
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Re: Noahs Ark? For Real
Posted On: 06/21/06 12:16:03 AM Age 53, ID
Well it looks like lumber, and if you did tests and found out it was, then who else would be up there on top of a mountain, but Noah's Ark. Don't think anybody would want to build a house in that location that looked like a boat. I could tell it was wood just by looking at is shape. Good Job
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