Why does counterfeit money exist?
| Posted On: 02/28/08 10:19:40 PM |
Age 34, TX |
Simple: because real money exists. According to Ephesians 4, there will be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, an teachers until the body of Christ comes to perfection. Granted, most who claim to be apostles and prophets do not meet the biblical tests. There are some genuine apostles and prophets out there, but most of them are to busy doing their job to engage in the chicanery that the 'latter rain' crowd is involved in.
The Bible NEVER says an apostle had to have seen Christ immediately following the resurrection. That passage records the 11 remaining apostles' decision to select someone to replace Judas from among the ones who had been among them at the time. Paul was an apostle, yet he was not among the immediate witnesses to the resurrection like Matthias was.
Thanks for being only the 2nd person I have ever heard to even mention Deuteronomy 18 in my lifetime.
Incidentally, as a prophet of God, I have never delivered an inaccurate prophecy. It's easy to be accurate: just speak what God has COMMANDED you to speak (like it says in Deut 18). If you're not sure, stay silent.
cheers,
SM
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Re: A Fifteen Hundred Dollar Cat or an Apostle?
| Posted On: 04/17/07 06:52:32 PM |
Age 39, FL |
This movement did not start here, but in Africa, where real revival has taken place with the Apostolic movement being its backbone. If we look at this in just American context it is oversimplifying its impact in the world. The fastest growing church group in the world are five fold ministry churches, with the roles correctly defined.
There are far too many people calling themselves Apostles, but God's judgment, which begins in the house of the Lord will reveal such things. (I Peter 4:17)
It is better to be humble and let God exalt you then to exalt yourself and have God humble you. (Luke 14:10) God will judge...
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Re: A Fifteen Hundred Dollar Cat or an Apostle?
| Posted On: 05/10/06 10:44:14 AM |
Age 45, MN |
This was an awesome article. There is so much false teaching in the church and this is one slipping under the radar. There is nothing new under the sun.
Interesting on the twisting scripture. About a year ago, our old church did a sermon on discernment. We were told in that sermon that you don't have the "gift" of discernment unless you have seen Jesus, a demon, or an angel.
In their version, Jesus just manifests himself all over in the physical sense.
Thanks.
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Re: A Fifteen Hundred Dollar Cat or an Apostle?
| Posted On: 05/10/06 09:30:36 AM |
Age 57, VA |
I think my last Apostle was worth about the cost of a Cadillac! I am joking. My husband and I got involved for a short period of time with a group of Ministers from all over who ended up being involved in this whole Apostolic Movement. As it began to appear more and more weird to us and we were able to define who and what they really were, we pulled out. Always at the meetings, there were prophets to prophesy over you if you wanted. It was on demand, sort of. They could prophesy at will! They were ready with tapes, microphones, and there were always three, four, or even five Prophets lined up to each take a turn at a prophesy for each one who came. (One person had potentially 3,4 or 5 prophesies over them) The Pastor we were "under" or came in under, later became an Apostle, even though I never felt like he truly felt comfortable in the position himself. I could tell he seemed timid about it. What was funny to me about the whole thing was that the leader -head Apostle of this Ministerial group-came across as if they had left the Faith Movement because of error in it (without throwing the baby out with the bath water), but unbeknownst to them, they were now caught up in another error. The thing that leaves me chuckling is that the new Apostle and his wife lived in a trailer but drove a Cadillac, which they had believed God for. They obviously had applied themselves to the teachings of the faith movement and "fit in" whether they owned a big home, jet plane or not. They had their Cadillac, by George! Glad to be out of all of that!
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Re: A Fifteen Hundred Dollar Cat or an Apostle?
| Posted On: 05/10/06 07:39:40 AM |
Age 62, TX |
Bob DeWaay, thank you for providing background and history with your articles. Many may have at one time or another heard of a certain movement, but it is not information we can recall.
To revert to a claim of the New Testament office of apostleship or prophet is to usurp the authority of the Holy Inspired Scripture.
The existence of modern apostles and prophets would mean Scripture is at best redundant and at worse inferior.
Here are some questions raised by the issue of the existence of current day apostles and prophets.
1. What purpose did the first apostles and New Testament prophets serve?
2. What purpose would the modern apostles and prophets serve?
3. Can any rational inferences be drawn about what it means to have modern apostles and prophets?
Exploring these questions should be enough to alarm any reasonable person, much less any Christian. A claim of being an apostle, prophet, or Christ is in and of itself a heresy. Those who claim such are included into the group of people described in 2 Peter 3:16 as being ignorant and unstable people (who) distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own destruction. The foundation laid down for the New Testament Church by the apostles and prophets is just that, a foundation. In him (Christ Jesus) the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. It is not the apostles that build the holy temple in the Lord, but Christ Jesus. The work of the Holy Spirit in His inspiration of Scripture replaced the purpose of the apostles and prophets. The foundation laid down by the apostles and the prophets now is held within divinely inspired Scripture, and the building of the Church into a Holy Temple in the Lord is continued not by apostles but by Christ Jesus through the Holy Spirit. The claim of apostleship is an attempt to steal the Glory of God.
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- Re: Re: A Fifteen Hundred Dollar Cat or an Apostle?
| Posted On: 05/17/06 06:54:11 AM | | Age 53, FL |
While I agree w/ much of this article -- especially with regards to those who say I'm an apostle because a prophet told me so (and vice-versa), I'm dubious of comments that fail to recognize that the Holy Spirit was just as present during the times of the early apostles and prophets as He is today. If in God's wisdom, He felt it neccessary to confirm His preached word with signs and wonders, why do we now have such a struggle believing He continues in this manner today. Are there not still hundreds of thousands of people who do not or will not ever read the Bible of their own volition but may, after witnessing a miraculous event, decide to investigate further, the claims of Christianity. Biblically we know that Jesus is the baptizer and giver of the gifts to the church. When you ask the question of what purpose would a modern day apostle or prophet serve, it's the very same answer as it was at the time of Jesus' ascension. To preach the gospel, appoint leadership in newly founded churches (eg. pastors and elders), pray for and exhort the flock etc. If Jesus thought it important then, and if He is the same, yesterday, today and forever, why do we struggle so much with this issue today. Aside from the those who are false apostles and false prophets, their are also false teachers and pastors. Are we to throw out all pastors and teachers because some of them teach falsely? If there are false apostles and prophets in the last days (and there are), their must be the genuine too -- otherwise who are they emulating or falsey representing?
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- Re: Re: Re: A Fifteen Hundred Dollar Cat or an Apostle?
| Posted On: 05/26/06 02:47:58 AM | | Age 34, MO |
FL, you state, "If there are false apostles and prophets in the last days (and there are), their must be the genuine too --..."
Did you miss Pastor Dewaay's comment about the biblical requirements of being an Apostle, or did you simply ignore it?
How can there be "genuine" Apostles today when the Bible tells us the requirments for being an Apostle were to have seen the resurrected Christ and to have been personally commissioned by Him?
Secondly, the fact that there are false prophets today does not necessitate that there are "genuine" prophets living today as well. Do you know of any "prophets" (since the time of Christ) who have been 100% accurate in their predictions uttered in the name of our Lord?
If you decide to respond please do so specifically to the comments and questions I have presented. This will help us stay on track.
Respectfully,
Jimmy
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Re: A Fifteen Hundred Dollar Cat or an Apostle?
| Posted On: 05/05/06 04:22:03 PM |
Age 53, MN |
Excellent article and perfect timing! I appreciate in particular the biblical exegesis article to understand it better. Thanks for addressing this.
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Re: A Fifteen Hundred Dollar Cat or an Apostle?
| Posted On: 05/03/06 04:16:07 PM |
Age 43, TX |
Bob, God bless you brother !!!!!!!!!
AMEN !!!!!! How true and how refeshing. The terms "false prophets" and "false apostles" appear several times in God's Word, warning us to beware of such. Jesus is coming ! Todd
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