Thank You Brother Brannon
| Posted On: 05/05/08 11:09:13 PM |
Age 42, OK |
This is an awesome article Brother Brannon, and it came at the perfect time. I was looking for some information about this very subject and I typed in a search for the word "mystic" here in this site, and this article popped up. Thank you so very much for a great article and God is always on time just like this article was for me.
Allen McGee
Tulsa Oklahoma
Cornerstone FWB Church
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 05/18/06 10:02:58 PM |
Age 46, MN |
I presume you posed your concerns directly to Bethel and Mr. Anderson. What was their response?
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- Re: Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 02/19/07 12:36:24 PM | | Age 30, CA |
Thank you for your article. I know Erwin and I went to Mosaic for many years. There is truly a battle here to take back the church from this new "artistic" type of thinking. Thank you for your honesty and boldness in writing this article. The Lord's word is clear we don't have to add to it like Erwin and his brother does. Please visit mosaicofpain.com to hear from others of his church that have been confused with Erwin's teachings and handlings of brethern within the church. Alex is easy. Just read some of his post on his site and you'll know there is trouble.
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 03/09/06 04:14:19 PM |
Age 23, MN |
For a well thought out response and consideration of the Emerging Church and the current state of the church, see:
D.A. Carson, Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church: Understanding a Movement and Its Implications (Zondervan).
Reclaiming the Center: Confronting Evangelical Accomodation in Postmodern Times, M. Erickson, P. Helseth, J. Taylor (editors). (Crossway)
In a lecture titled, Carson and the New Perspective, he said (in regards to the emerging church):
You can shape a discussion by framing it a certain way. If you stereotype another persons position and show how its bad then you can say what youre doing is good. But if the other position doesnt really hold that and actually says a whole lot of things that youre trying to say but puts them in a more believable framework then suddenly youre the one who looks a little bit silly. And so the historical theological questions really are very important indeed. Let me take an analogy, right away from this one so its not freighted with so much weight. I have a book coming out this month on the emerging church movement. And there are lots of good things to be said about elements of the emerging church movement, [and] some pretty negative things as well. But one of the things that strikes me about the positive elements in the emerging church movement is that the most positive things that can be said about the emerging church movement (and there are quite a lot of them) you could also say about other segments of broader confessional Christianity without all the negatives that go with it. In other words, I could show you the strengths of the best parts of the emerging movement in a church like Tim Kellers in Manhattan without all the nasty stuff that you sometimes get in other parts of that movement. And so, if you can show, for example, that some of the great strengths of this new perspective theology are in fact already there in Luther and Calvin, then the stereotype of whats bad with them and good with you gets twisted. And then you start asking, Well what is it exactly that youre introducing and are you saying something that is moving you away from Scripture or closer to Scripture? The whole frame of the debate gets changed. It is in that sense that knowledge of the deep historical theological categories becomes pretty important. Do not believe what most of these writers say Luther and Calvin believed. They far more often than not get it wrong rather than right. Youve just got to read the primary sources before you make judgments of that sort.
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 03/08/06 03:41:01 PM |
Age 30, TX |
In my opinion, a "clear gospel message" is better communicated through people rather than on a web site. Mosaic is reaching people through relationships. A clear gospel message may not appear on their web site but it is evident in Pastor Erwin's weekly messages to his congregation and visitors.
You did not include a link to The Emerging Church movement so we can read for ourselves the similarities you see among these: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church.
-AR
dallas.voxtropolis.com
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 03/08/06 01:27:09 PM |
Age 29, WA |
Some verses come to mind;
Luke 9:49-50 ""Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."
Philippians 1:18 "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."
1 Corinthians 9:19-22 "Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible.
To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law--though I myself am not under the law--to win over those under the law.
To those outside the law I became like one outside the law--though I am not outside God's law but within the law of Christ--to win over those outside the law.
To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some."
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 03/07/06 04:13:29 PM |
Age 23, CA |
I think some important points are made in this article. I do, however, think that some things were overlooked. By that I mean that Jesus not only hung out with sinners, he was good friends with them. I know many conservative Christians, I am on the conservative end of the spectrum, and I don't know any that have a large number of non-christian friends. Alex McManus' talks often stretch very far, but at the core of the message what he says is right on. The McManus brothers have noticed a problem with American Christianity in that it is more about rules and the institution that is the church than reaching the lost. I would have to agree with them there. To get people to notice, especially in this day and age, one has to push the envelope, and that's what they are doing. I'm glad this article was written, it shows that not everyone understands what the McManus brothers are doing. Many Christians do not understand what they are doing because it does not resemble the "church" they know. The McManus brothers don't want to attract Christians, they want to attract the lost and show them Christ, in turn making them Christians. I don't always agree with how they do it, but they are reaching a lot of people, and they use do use scripture. I would also like to point out that the use of the loop from the Eminem song is just that, the loop of the song not the lyrics which I don't agree with. Part of the reason that song was used is because the song itself is talking about siezing your one moment and being great; could it be said cleaner, yes, but the main message of the song is the message that Erwin is trying to get out to Christians: God gives us divine moments, we must seize them. Another reason the song was used is because it would rattle the establishment which Jesus did constantly while He walked the earth. Again, I'm glad the article was written because it is good to know that not everyone is getting the message the McManus brothers are sending.
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 03/04/06 09:44:40 AM |
Age 53, CA |
I've attended many Mosaic meetings, and I've recorded, as part of the Mosaic technical team, many of Erwin's messages. I've heard his prayers. I've seen what Mosaic does as a group.
The truth is that Mosaic works. If you're expecting perfection, go somewhere else. Erwin's movements are guided by a solid belief that the best place for a sinner to be is at the feet of Jesus.
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 03/03/06 12:27:20 PM |
Age 53, FL |
Go to Exposing Satan's Lies...I think it's ESL and find a very elderly man who goes around talking about things just like this. He would definitely consider this teaching from Satan. We were in a "cult" once (which is just a group of over-controlling leaders making you loose sight of God's grace and fear God's wrath). Now we go to a healthy church with great encouragement and biblical teaching...Glen Springs Rd. Church of Christ. It's wonderful to just sing acapella (no fights among the music ministry), hear the Word, see the baptisms done biblically for a change with no arguing on Acts 2:38, it's all just refreshing! Thanks for your article. We DO need to get back to basics...back to the Bible...it's scary how many out there are twisting the Word because that's just the way "it's always been done" or they crave something "new". God just wants our hearts to turn to Him for guidance and encouragement to get through this life until we see Jesus come again and can welcome Him with open arms.
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 03/02/06 12:00:46 PM |
Age 31, IL |
Brannon - Couple things - 1) Erwin and Alex are about the most solid biblical thinkers I know. 2) Bethel University is a solidly Evangelical school, why else would Bethlehem Baptist and John Piper partner with Bethel University through their seminary? Certainly you would agree John Piper would not support the Emergent church, or a university that was part of emergent?
3) There is a difference between the emerging church and Emergent. There are many solid churches that are emerging, the church is always emerging - the church does not look the same as it did 100 years ago, and it shouldn't. Emergent is a group that is supported by Youth Specialities, and has their own agenda. So, you can't lump Emerging Church and Emergent together.
4) Please dig further before you blast a highly respected University. Checking your website, you list Jason Carlson as a speaker with the group you are a part of. Jason went to Bethel University. Last I heard he was quite fond of the school - but I guess you would have to ask him. Thanks for correcting your article. JS
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Re: A Christian University, the McManus Brothers, Mysticism and the Emerging Church
| Posted On: 03/01/06 08:18:19 PM |
Age 22, IN |
Thank you for helping to keep us on the alert. It doesn't matter what others say or argue, or what man's theories are about what is right or not - we as Christians simply reveal what God has already condemned and judged in His Word. We stand on His Word. Here's some verses I thought of from 1 Thessalonians 5:
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Abstain from all appearance of evil.
See 2 John 1, especially verses 8 to 11 below:
Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
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