THE MIDWIVES WERE BLESSED FOR DISOBEYING THE KING
| Posted On: 07/04/09 01:37:33 PM |
Age 65, OH |
There are many other examples of this in the scriptures. God sent Israel to Egypt and they were to obey Joseph and the Pharaoh. But when the Pharaoh told the midwives to kill the male children of Israel, they disobeyed Pharaoh and God blessed them for it. In fact God blessed all of Israel for disobeying Pharaoh and God brought curses on Egypt for obeying the Pharaoh. The Pharaoh had tried to kill all the male children of Israel which would have destroyed all of Israel; but instead the Pharaoh had pronounced his own judgment by this act, when God killed all the firstborn of Egypt instead. The children of Israel went free for disobeying the King of Egypt. - Lou Newton
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Yes, but...
| Posted On: 07/04/09 10:37:55 AM |
Age 55, NY |
While there is much to agree with in the good Dr.'s article, I am afraid it suffers from several errant presuppositions. If he were to reduce his argument to the two basic Biblical principles which are modeled and articulated throughout Scripture - we'd be OK. But using the founding documents of the USA as though THEY have some sort of sacred authority, or must be correct in every way - skews the issues significantly in my opinion.
What we see repeatedly in the Biblical model is:
a. If any authority (be it a person or governmental body) REQUIRES anyone to do anything God's Word forbids us to do - we MUST disobey the authority.
b. If any authority(be it a person of governmental body) FORBIDS anyone to do what God's Word REQUIRES us to do - we MUST disobey the authority once again.
However, to extend this beyond the Scriptural bounds, would leave men like Joseph or Daniel serving under clearly despotic governance unable to function in the norm - which they clearly did - with the exceptions noted above.
When Israel is captured by the Babylonians, they are judgmentally brought under despotic rule by a pagan government and the prophetic word to them through Isaiah in particular is in fact to submit and NOT fight.
These kinds of examples must be considered, and our near canonization of America's founding documents must be rejected - despite their being the best any human government has ever produced. Simply because they "say" we have the specified inalienable rights, does not necessarily mean it is so. Simply because they specify what those men then deemed as charges worthy of revolution against England's then Kind - again do not make it so.
I am afraid we sometimes confuse Americanism with Christianity and such a confounding of the two produces a hybrid which ultimately dilutes Christianity.
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- yes but????
| Posted On: 07/07/09 08:11:27 AM | | Age 45, NH |
In no way did I say the founding documents are as Sacred Text however they are the covenant that this nation was founded on. Since they are the agreement and the federal government as well as states are violating the agreement, it is reasonable to state so. There is nothing in the Constitution that violates the bible because they are based on the biblical world-view.
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- Yes but...Response to Dr. Berman
| Posted On: 07/08/09 08:17:57 AM | | Age 55, NY |
Dear Dr. Berman - you are quite correct that you did not say the founding documents were sacred - but I must confess your dealt more with them than Scripture in making a point which you stated was to be based upon Biblical hermeneutics. That aside, i fear we can suffer from a presupposition which you brought up in your response. To think in terms of our Constitution as a "covenant" has its inherent problems. The biggest problem being that even IF we treat it as such - it is purely unilateral. There is no reason to believe God ever agreed to this covenant. We have no Biblical basis for binding Him to such a covenant nor to believe God has ever entered into such a covenant with any other nation in the way we suppose He is connected to this one. The Bible does not sanction our representative republic as God's chosen or preferred governmental system. That is not to say there is anything wrong with our system per se - indeed, it is preferable (in my opinion) to all other man-made governmental structures. But He did not impose it upon us as a people. That it is founded in GREAT measure upon Biblical principles is laudable and agreeable in every place in which it is true. However it is also human, fallible, alterable and fails utterly apart from men and women who individually are submitted to Christ as King. It cannot long stand apart from a redeemed constituency and thus we are seeing its tragic demise in our day. But the answer is not better government nor more precise rules for civil disobedience - it is in the Church recovering Her true relationship to Her God, and walking in true fidelity to Christ. We must change those which comprise society, if we would change society itself. There is not a single New Testament word relating to somehow opposing the Roman tyranny under which it was penned. Tyranny which you cited opposition to not only as a Christian right, but duty. This runs counter to the Bible's current in my opinion. We DO oppose tyranny - but first and foremost - the tyranny of sin governing men's hearts. Reid Ferguson.
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- Freedom to be Wrong
| Posted On: 07/05/09 09:30:29 PM | | Age 46, PA |
You have the freedom to be wrong for now. What exactly will you say when the government takes away any right you have but to see your family die for your faith? When they come in and take your children to "re-education", subject your wife to the army as a whore and force you to server their whims or die?
You think my example extreme? IT HAPPENED in sight of my own GRANDMOTHER. She had to get pregnant to avoid being made a hooker for Hitler's Army. She never saw her husband again.
God expects you to be a man and do what is right. Stop hiding behind your freedom and your twisted understanding of the Bible. It was men of God that established this nation and men of God will fight to keep it free.
Patrick Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
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- Yes but...response to Mr. Burwell
| Posted On: 07/08/09 08:02:12 AM | | Age 55, NY |
I am sorry Mr. Burwell, but I have no concept of what you mean by "hiding behind [my] freedom." That there have been horrific and despotic acts perpetrated by the likes of the Nazi regime and others is without question. That their godless foundation is behind such acts is also without question. But what we are discussing here are the precise parameters which the Bible places upon our requirement to rebel at times and what that looks like. I simply make the observation that never were God's people permitted or instructed to take up arms against their captors (be it Egypt, Babylon, etc.) simply on the grounds they were under tyrannical rule. We need to be careful upon what basis we make such decisions. I believe the Scripture is more restrictive regarding our "rights" under such conditions than we are used to and/or comfortable with. Scripture must be the supreme authority in such cases, not our personal political views, nor even those of our own precious founding documents.
Reid Ferguson.
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"Good works"
| Posted On: 07/04/09 08:01:06 AM |
Age 62, MO |
In Romans chapter 13, verses 1 and 2 are qualified by verses 3 and 4. "Good works" are God's laws, not a contrived concoction of political laws derived of man's own vain imaginations, even if there is a majority consent to those political laws. Only then is verse 5 applicable to us. Even then, our obedience to the civil government should be not only because we might get punished, but because our heart for God tells us to obey. George Cancilla
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Resist evil tyranny
| Posted On: 07/03/09 08:57:45 PM |
Age 47, AK |
Amen Brother!
God's laws are higher and I am getting tired
of Christians who move in false humility
and misplaced meekness with what is happening. I don't believe that since
all kings serve at God's will, we must just
shut up and put up with wicked doers. Yes
God is in control and He has a purpose and
a plan in all the ages.
However, God also brings judgment against a nation for evil and backsliding. God allows
the people their desires when they love the lie and not the truth and He, Himself, will
bring a strong spirit of delusion upon
the people.
But I did not vote for this man and government and neither did half this nation,(I believe the election was stolen
by fraud). I wept tears of grief and frustration at Christians who sat back
and did nothing but even worse voted in
such evil.
We do need to stand up for the Lord and continue to proclaim His Word until He comes. Even when God brings judgment there were the prophets of old who cried
out and interceded for the nation of Israel and asked God for mercy. Where are those people in this nation? They are there, few but far between. Unheard of figures who are
not in public ministry.
Remember that God raises up some for vessels
of honor and some for dishonor so that His
power and glory might be made known.
(Rom 9:17)
For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
(Rom 9:18)
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
(Rom 9:19)
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
(Rom 9:20)
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
(Rom 9:21)
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
(Rom 9:22)
What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
(Rom 9:23)
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
God uses those for judgment and dishonor
because He sees the heart. Pharoah's heart
was hardened against God for truth. So have
many in our government hardened their hearts
to God for His truth. God can and will use them to show forth His wrath against a wicked people.
I have no problem with declaring that I pray for God to bring these wicked corrupters down in this nation to their own
shame and dishonor. I pray that the least
to the greatest of them that now mock the Lord will know that God is a holy God.
Maybe some might be saved if they should
soften their hearts and turn to God.
God is exposing corruption, adultery and
lies like never before now in our leaders,
but is it enough to turn apostate hearts
back to Him? Still I will continue to pray that God will once again raise up righteous
rulers who fear Him.
However, Brethren, keep the hope because
we know that all will fall on their knees
and confess with their tongue that Christ
is Lord of Lord and King of Kings. From
the least to the greatest. Some will resurrect unto eternal life and some to eternal death. Even so Lord Jesus come.
Dr. Linda Sio
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About time someone brought this up
| Posted On: 07/03/09 08:22:30 PM |
Age 54, IL |
I want to say thank you for this article. It time for the church to get her head out of the sky and take notice to what is happening to this nation. Our founding fathers were brilliant and gave us a nation based upon the God of the bible and His Ten Commandments. When is the church going to start teaching the truth about how we were founded. I believe that we should teach the true history of this nation and about the people who sacrificed all they had to give us this nation, "One Nation Under God." I would like to encourage pastors to start studying about the birth of this nation and give your people the truth. They will not get it from any public school. One more thing, my first message would be about the truth that this nation is NOT a democracy, but a Constitutional Republic. God Bless America!
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