Bad Exegesis
| Posted On: 01/12/09 08:50:51 PM |
Age 40, NH |
There is no conflict between 1 Chron 4 & Luke 18. There is nothing "obscure" about any part of Scripture because ALL Scripture is God-breathed (theopneustos)or more accurately "breathed out by God" (ESV).
"Given by inspiration of God" (KJV) is not literal nor the most accurate rendering and may lead one to not understand that "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness."
The prayer of Jabez is quite in line with how the Father wishes us to pray, for His glory and for us to be used to our fullest by and for Him.
Grace and Peace,
Jim
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Well consider this...
| Posted On: 01/10/09 08:45:43 AM |
Age 48, MO |
What would you expect when salvation is not of faith but a personal relationship. If I can personalize salvation to suit my whims, and Jesus died just for me, and He empathizes with my frailities, and I am once confessed always saved, then who needs transforming faith? Faith is no longer a convicting belief that leads to a transforming spiritual life, but a concept that leads to a persuit of happiness. John
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- Salvation is personal and corporate
| Posted On: 01/12/09 08:38:38 PM | | Age 40, NH |
Gal .6 & Rom 8.15 make it clear that salvation is very personal and that a relationship i started between the Father and His adopted son or daughter. Salvation then becomes a matter of corporate significance (1 Cor 12). So faith is personal and simultaneously corporate. God uses faith to initiate a personal relationship so a personal relationship doesn't lead one to be me centered. Personalizing the atonement is essential in order to understand the magnitude of Yeshua's sacrifice and one's responsibility in the death of Messiah.
Convicting faith and a personal relationship are cogs of the same faith, not opposing forces.
Grace and Peace,
jim
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- further,
| Posted On: 01/15/09 04:03:23 AM | | Age 48, MO |
Jim; don't misunderstand my point. We were purchased and died with Him, the ensuing relationship is not personal but to be found in Him by the power of the Holy Spirit. It transcends personal and is no longer a relationship, it is a oneness. (As Father, Son, and Spirit are one.) Also, my point in exposing that lie of personal relationship that was developed in the 1800's, is to expose how it is defined in the culture and how they define it to mean me'ism. If you argue the point it is because you define the phrase differently, which I would hope and expect because you are a brother, but we must define words as the culture defines them to see how they have misused Scripture. John
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- Thanks for responding
| Posted On: 01/13/09 10:45:10 AM | | Age 48, MO |
Hey Jim: I like your statement that salvation must be personalized to understand the magnitude of Christ's sacrifice. Yet, I would disagree with your interpretation. If it is Christ who saves us, not of our work, but by His grace thru faith that He provides, then what exactly do we personalize? To accept Christ wholly is to fully abandon self by the power of His Holy Spirit. To come to the point of personal abandonment is the point of Spirit indwelling and incidentally the point where relationship becomes corporate as His will be done. From previous conversations, I know you agree. Jim, we must look at Scripture as Truth and the lie as the culture. If we consider our interpretations of words as the norm, then we will always be bewildered as to why the body mirrors culture (Emergent) instead of being salt and light. John
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The Correct View
| Posted On: 01/10/09 05:47:35 AM |
Age 18, SOUTH AFRICA |
Amen brother,
It is a sad thing to see that there are so many teachings that tickle the ears these days.
In response to this selfish age I would look at Paul's writings in Philippians:
Philippians 1:21 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain."
and then Phil 3:7-8 "But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ"
All Christ centered. Of course there is Jesus' demands in Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."
It is because we (and by "we" I mean "mankind")have become wrapped up in our humanism that we have idolised ourselves and when Scripture runs contrary to our idols we reinterpret Scripture (if we give any recognition to God's word at all).
To Gene: I think perhaps Matt was a bit unfair in his dismissal of Jabez' prayer (though I'm sure that this is only an oversight in the tone of his writing). It is not sinful to pray for God's grace but always with the end being His glory. Jesus guided us on how to pray with the Lord's prayer which clearly makes requests for God's mercy and grace but rather than being selfish it begins with the request that above all "[God's] will be done". I assume your question was more rhetorical than anything else however I don't think such a question should be left unanswered.j3
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From Jesus' mouth
| Posted On: 01/09/09 08:51:54 PM |
Age 30, OH |
Our Father, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
[For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
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Context Please
| Posted On: 01/09/09 06:38:21 PM |
Age 40, NH |
Matt,
Could you quote the 2 paragraphs before and after the quote from Anderson (Ray S. Anderson, The Gospel According to Judas, (Colorado Springs, Helmer and Howard, 1991), 99.) for the full context? The quote can certainly be seen in light of self-centered-ness but without the context, the quote doesn't support your point really.
Grace and Peace,
jim
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Joel Osteen's is a Happiness Cult
| Posted On: 01/09/09 05:55:36 PM |
Age 60, CA |
"Christianity is not a happiness cult. It's primary purpose is not to make us happy...happiness does come through the Christian faith. But if the end of the Christian faith is to make us happy, then we are using God - we are the center - not God. This means self-idolatry." a quote by Deverne Fromke, "Unto Full Stature"
Greg at http://dyingtoliveabundantlife.blogspot.com/
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Good Job
| Posted On: 01/09/09 03:10:54 PM |
Age 60, WV |
Very good article and thanks for using God's Word in English--the King James.
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another thought
| Posted On: 01/09/09 03:10:51 PM |
Age 53, NE |
The church will stop be "me-centered" and become "He-centered" when we realize that buildings, meetings, meals and music do not a church make. We must realize that we, individually and collectively, are the church, whether in a pew or in line at the grocery store. If we would know that we represent Jesus wherever we go, if we would acknowledge the depths from which He has rescued us, and if we would gladly share the reason for the hope that is in us, then the church would be just fine.
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Why should everything center around God?
| Posted On: 01/09/09 01:01:08 PM |
Age 44, CO |
I'm afraid your average "Christian" would probably ask why everything should center around God, not "me." There aren't nearly enough good solid preachers out there like John Piper boldly expounding on God-centeredness and showing it for the glorious, right thing that it is. Too many churches avoid the plainly God-centered passages of the Bible, as if feeling the need to protect God from his own embarrassing narcissism. But those who have this attitude suffer from the belief that the Emperor really has no clothes. They think He couldn't prove worthy of all of that scrutiny. So they'd rather focus on man, as if he could possibly be worthy.
Sin is madness.
Betsy Markman
"Why Should Everything Revolve Around God?"
http://justanotherclaypot.blogspot.com/2009/01/why-should-everything-revolve-around.html
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Purpose Driven
| Posted On: 01/09/09 11:19:28 AM |
Age 41, CA |
Well, The Purpose Driven life -- which I believe is the most deceiving book out there, continues to contribute to the development of me-centered local churches. Books like these influence people to seek God as a new resource THROUGH which they are able to understand the purpose of THEIR life here on earth, instead of seeking God not as a resource but as LORD, and IN Him they can understand the purpose of HIS life in them. Such books as these cause people to become blind to such truths as, "He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it." And, "I write these things so that IN ME (not THROUGH Me) you may have peace. In the world you [meaning: in your life] will have tribulation..." Does this mean that we should seek a miserable existence to ensure the authenticity of our election? No! This means that if in our deepest heart, our main concern is pleasing God and serving Him for His purpose and His pleasure, and rather than overwhelming ourselves by focusing too much on our lives, we focus on serving Christ, He will provide for our every need. Am I saying to ignore our responsibilities in life? No! Do all you can to fulfill your responsibilities, and leave the rest to God. Don't seek the benefits of God -- Seek the God of the benefits.
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