2012-2015 and the Second Coming - Feedback

2012-2015 and the Second Coming

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THE THIRD TEMPLE IS NOT BUILT BY MERE MEN

Posted On: 08/05/08 11:23:53 PM

Age 64, OH

Mark, you say there will be a third Jewish temple. There is one pictured in Ezekiel, but how do we know this is a physical building. Think about this; why did Jesus destroy Herod's temple after He died for us on the cross. After Jesus shed His blood to pay for the sins of all, it was a supreme insult to what Jesus had done for mere men to be offering the blood of bulls and goats to pay for their sins. Jesus had the temple destroyed to stop this insult to His sacrifice. I do not see why he would let them rebuild the temple to start this insult to His blood up again. The temple has been being rebuilt from the day Jesus died until now. We are the temple. It is a temple of living stones and the builder is God and not men. There is no tool used on any of these stones. They are prepared and fitted into place by the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus. There is no way for man to build a temple like this. Unless the Lord builds the house it is built in vain. This temple will have no end to it and will be taken to heaven for all eternity. What need is there for another temple built by men. Lou
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Revelation is a book of prophecy
Posted On: 08/14/08 06:37:47 PM Age 63, TX
You stated, "The Revelation is NOT about future events at all. It is about The Revelation of the One who was, and who is, and who will be." ("will be" is future tense.) How do you explain Rev. ch. 22's statements such as "Behold I am coming soon. ("coming soon" is future tense.) Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near." ("time is near" is future tense.) Ch. 1:1 "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon take place...." (future tense.) Rev. 19:10 "...Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." I hope you're reconsider and broaden what the book is offering you, because it is a book full of unfulfilled prophecy, which is still FUTURE. We can all testify that there is much OT prophecy that is now fulfilled, so much of it by Jesus, and even the reestablishment of the state of Israel. I believe God finishes what He starts and He will fulfill every prophecy in His Word. The great Author tells us over and over that it is a book of PROPHECY. I rejoice that He loved us so much that He wrote that precious book to us!
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THE BOOK IS NOT ABOUT TIME BUT ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
Posted On: 08/16/08 10:13:47 AM Age 64, OH
You have misunderstood my post dear friend. Some even misquote the title of The Book and call it "Revelations" as to say the book is about a telling of the future. The Book is not about "events" or "time"(the future) but it is about The person of The Lord Jesus Christ and The Revelation of The Lord Jesus Christ. This Revelation takes place in the past, present, AND future as I well stated, did I not. You are correct that the Spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. But this testimony does not only take place in the future and also took place from the beginning and has took place all during the entire time of this universe since it was created, even before man was here. This revelation will climax in the Revealing of Jesus as Lord of Lords and King of all Kings when He returns for the whole world to see and bow their knees and confess that He is Lord. This final Revelation of the Lord Jesus in this age will be the end of this age and His final return at the last trump or the 7th trump in the Book. Lou
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Great Article, Mark!

Posted On: 08/05/08 10:07:04 PM

Age 58, MS

Hi Mark, I thought your article was very thoughtful, although I'm still dubious about the events (Mayan Calender and Blood Moon Eclipse) that many may be using for their endpoint (2012-2015). I have been teaching Biblical prophecy and typology in churches for twenty-seven years, and I can tell you without reservation, that very few have the spiritual capacity to understand this complex subject. Some fortunately (usually a handful), realize that something is about to happen, but most are too caught up in their day-to-day activities to really care. As far as the pre-trib naysayers, I say go back and read some real scholars, such as, John Walvoord, J. Dwight Pentecost,Leman Strauss, or Clarence Larkin. These men had real insight into the subject of eschatology. As far as the seven-year tribulation, I hope that all post-tribbers get their opportunity to go through all seven years of this time of God's judgment. I have had two or three forums where the fellowship was tremendous only to be destroyed by these people and eventually my forums were deleted because they killed the spirit of fellowship. Believe it or not, the Holy Spirit gives some men insight over and above what's in the commentaries and what the liberals teach in the seminaries. The last book that I wrote on Revelation I used over 130 sources. I can only wonder how many books these people have read on the subject of Bible prophecy. I'm not saying that I am an expert or that I have all the answers, but God has given me insight into this world of Bible prophecy and I have come to realize that either you get it or you don't get it and that's about the sum of the matter.
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THE GREATEST TEACHER IN THE UNIVERSE
Posted On: 08/05/08 11:08:55 PM Age 64, OH
You say you have read 130 books on Bible prophecy. I have read very few and do not think that it is important how many books one reads. You can read all the books of men that you want. For instance the book Late Great Planet Earth is only a few years old and is already out of date. Many things in it did not come true and were wrong. I will read the Book of our Lord. It is not important where you go to school or which book you read. The only thing that is important is who your teacher is. I have been taught from the start by the Holy Spirit and He has been my teacher to this day. Do you think that leaves me at a disadvantage. I do not think there is any better than the One who died for us and the One who will return for us. I think there is none equal to Him. I am open to whatever He wants to teach me. It is often NOT what I want to hear, in fact never is. But He is able to make me willing to be made willing to learn of His Revelation. The Revelation is NOT about future events at all. It is about The Revelation of the One who was, and who is, and who will be. The Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ is about just that, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. That Revelation started when God created the heavens and the earth. Lou
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The Revelation of Jesus Christ
Posted On: 08/18/08 03:20:40 PM Age 63, TX
(Lou, I'm reposting my response to a response I wrote and then posted after the wrong statement. If that was confusing, I sincerely apologize. Perhaps it will make more sense posted here.It follows:) You stated, "The Revelation is NOT about future events at all. It is about The Revelation of the One who was, and who is, and who will be." ("will be" is future tense.) How do you explain Rev. ch. 22's statements such as "Behold I am coming soon. ("coming soon" is future tense.) Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near." ("time is near" is future tense.) Ch. 1:1 "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon take place...." (future tense.) Rev. 19:10 "...Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." I hope you're reconsider and broaden what the book is offering you, because it is a book full of unfulfilled prophecy, which is still FUTURE. We can all testify that there is much OT prophecy that is now fulfilled, so much of it by Jesus, and even the reestablishment of the state of Israel. I believe God finishes what He starts and He will fulfill every prophecy in His Word. The great Author tells us over and over that it is a book of PROPHECY. I rejoice that He loved us so much that He wrote that precious book to us!
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PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
Posted On: 08/22/08 07:33:04 AM Age 64, OH
Is the book about time or is the book about a Person. This Lord of all lords, The Lord Jesus created time and lives outside of time. The Book is The Revelation of The Lord Jesus Christ. The climax of this revelation is in the future as far as time goes but this revelation also happened in the past and happens right as we speak. I never said the book did not include events that were to happen in the future, but that the future was NOT the focus. The focus of the book is Jesus Christ. Rev 1: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, clouds,..... 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."-- The Book is about our dear Lord, but even as far as time goes, it is concerning the past, present, and future; not just the future. Lou
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Disciples' questions Re:"When" and "What"
Posted On: 08/22/08 05:15:47 PM Age 63, TX
As you quoted Jesus from Mt., "See, I have told you ahead of time." Jesus was telling the disciples the answers to their specific questions about what EVENTS and when they would take place leading up to, during and through the trib. They already knew He was the Messiah. They specifically asked WHEN and WHAT WILL BE THE SIGN. I don't deny that it's a reaffirmation of who Jesus is, but that's not the only book in the Bible that describes Him, and you can't say that's the only topic of any of them, either. In another post, you stated, ""THE JEWS WERE DECEIVED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT TRUST IN GOD. BUT WE SEE THE ELECT IS STILL HERE." (I didn't bother to respond) Do you think any of the elect are Jewish? Are you implying that because many of the Jews were deceived that they all were? For all time? During the trib? If that's your position, consider who Mt. 24 is told to, and what it's about. Who was the Jewish Messiah talking to? Jewish believers. Where were they? In Jerusalem. Verse 15 puts us at mid trib, 3.5 years in the middle, when the antichrist identifies himself. "SPOKEN OF through the PROPHET DANIEL"--Jesus' words! Who's going to know the book of Daniel? The Jews! Who was the early church--Messianic Jews--told to take the gospel to? To the JEWS first, starting in Jerusalem, and then to the Gentiles. He's referring to the Jews when He says THEN let those who are in JUDEA flee to the mts. I believe that's Petra. "Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath." WHO is forbidden to travel on the Sabbath? ORTHODOX JEWS! In verse 27 He tells them to not look for Him, He's coming to them: So obviously, since so much of this conversation is about the Jews and Israel, Jesus is coming for some Jews who will be saved during the trib! "For as lightening that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Rev. chapter 19 opens with a roar in heaven. 19:8 describes the BRIDE at the wedding feast of the Lamb as dressed in "FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN," and in 19:14 it reads "The armies of heaven were following Him, riding on white horses and DRESSED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN. So the bride is already in heaven at the beginning of the chapter for the wedding feast of the Lamb, and then returns to earth with the Jesus. Those who were truly saved and Raptured will be a part of the bride, riding behind Him. I think it will include even a lot of people who didn't believe in a pre-trib Rapture!
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LET THEM BOTH GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE END OF THE AGE
Posted On: 08/25/08 12:14:26 PM Age 64, OH
Dear friend, thank you for your kind reply. It would be nice if you would include your 1st name so I can call you by name, but not necessary. In general, would you say modern Israel is Christian or are they deceived. Of course a few are trusting in Jesus, I know some that are. As far as Jesus referring to the sabbath and the winter, I think Jesus was saying to pray that we are not dormant (winter) or at rest but working to serve Him when He returns. When Jesus said, beware the yeast of the pharisees, was He speaking of bread. As to your remark, who was Jesus speaking to: Jesus was speaking to whoever has ears to hear, which is all who are humbly seeking the Truth, and not trying to justify their position.- The book of Daniel is not for Jews, but it is for all those who trust in The One and Only true God. I read it, don't you. Did the Jews understand the book of Daniel, which tells about Jesus coming to earth 2000 years ago also. Paul tells us that the Jews have been cut out and we have been grafted in. The message of the whole Bible is that God saves all who trust in Him. Ruth was not a Jew, yet she has a book named after her. Enoch was not a Jew, yet he was raptured before he even died. We are not saved as nations but we are saved as individuals. - Many scriptures can be interpreted many ways, but they all have to agree, or it is not the truth. Jesus says, LET THEM BOTH GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST, which is the end of the age. How can you interpret these words of Jesus to mean that the wheat is taken 1st. Lou
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End Time Events

Posted On: 08/05/08 04:26:14 PM

Age 44, TX

After teaching and preaching a pre-trib position for years, I understand how someone can be caught up in the doctrine. I encourage people to look at the two passages Paul qoutes as the basis of the rapture in 1 Corinthians 15:54-55 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? If anybody knows what Paul was talking about, it should be Paul. One is from Isaiah 25:8, the other Hosea 13:14. Look at them in context. If your veiw of the rapture isn't built on these two passages, then it is built on fantasies. rlytle@gt.rr.com
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SaPo

Posted On: 08/05/08 03:47:09 PM

Age 54, OR

In all the years that I've been a Christian its always been about some special date based on knowledge thats known to only a few, and so far not a single one of you have gotten it right yet. What did the Mayans understand that Christ ,or the Apostles did not? If you prognosticators had to give a guarantee or money back on all predictions or at least a at length apology most if not all would be silent. Hal Lindsey said something to the effect he would be a hero or bum depending on the outcome of his prediction, I have never heard him once in lectures or published form detract from his failed statements. I think its high time you all go back to the drawing board and study this subject beyond your traditions and preconceived ideas, if you start off wrong you will end up wrong, as of yet no one of you get this, but are quick to give an excuse, (miss it by one year, save those white robes though they will be all the rave next year)Hopefully!!!!
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an opinion

Posted On: 08/05/08 01:59:41 PM

Age 61, NJ

This was an interesting article but naturally, it is only an opinion. Many people are divided on the Rapture (Pre-Trib, Trib or Post Trib) and everyone has a Scriptural reference to support their theory. Some theologians even deny that there will be a Rapture and some (Preterists)go so far as say that the prophesies in the Book of Revelations were fulfilled in 70AD with the siege of Jeruselem. So it's all conjecture. No man knows the mind of the Lord and to try to place into human understanding how and when He'll do anything is to invite failure. The ancient Jews were looking for another David or Moses and were literally expecting Heaven to come to Earth in the form of a new Jeruselem. Little did they know that Heaven was brought to Earth in the form of Jesus and that His New Covenant was far better than the old one. Their expectations were fulfilled but in a different form. Actually, in these End Times, the Lord is pointing the way so that even the secular can understand that something will happen. Strange weather patterns, earthquakes, global warming, point the way to and end time. So there will be none with an excuse. Why not the year 2012? With all the turmoil in the world, things can escalate very quickly. Maybe, Obama is the Anti-Christ? He has a Messianic following and has muslim roots. We'll have to wait and see. At this point, only the Lord knows. Certainly not humans. Actually, unless it's by Divine Revelation, it's impossible to explain the supernatural from the natural.
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This article is nonsence and dangerous!

Posted On: 08/05/08 01:41:08 PM

Age 51, NETHERLANDS

**Could the end of the Mayan calendar, dated for December 21, 2012, be the perfect vehicle for anti-Christ to accomplish just this? I believe it very well could.** This article is very much based on both pagan superstition and pagan horoscopy. Indirectly this article encourages the reader to dig deeper into the pagan cults like horoscopy and the occult realms. The pretribulation-rapture is a cult-doctrine which originated in the 1830-s and was copied and modified by John N. Darby. Scriptures do not teach nor confirm the pre-trib rapture: you cannot show me one single text which clearly tells you there will be a pre-trib rapture. The Maya culture was a typical pagan culture, with much satanic influences like sun worshipping and human sacrifices. Those who take this article seriously should read their bible first and read about old testament occult practises and false prophets, and how they had to wiped out... For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth an maketh a lie (Rev 22:15 KJV) God bless, Joop
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THE LAST TRUMPET

Posted On: 08/05/08 12:45:37 PM

Age 64, OH

Mark, you give this scripture; 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed� 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.-- As the scripture says, it is NOT just any trumpet, but the LAST trumpet that we will be changed.- We can look in The Book and see that the last trumpet can not be before the 7 trumpets of The Revelation 8, or it would NOT BE THE LAST. It could also not be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th of the 7 trumpets or it would not be last. The last trumpet can not be before the 7th trumpet in the Revelation or it could not be the last. Someone could well argue that it could be after the 7th trumpet but not after, for then it could not be the LAST. But the four horsemen that everyone is trying to avoid come in the 7 seals in Rev 6. The seven trumpets are part of the 7th seal. These seven seals and the seven trumpets are the tribulation, are they not. But the 7th trumpet is after the tribulation of the 7 seals and the 6 trumpets. The LAST trumpet can not be before the 7th trumpet or it could not be last. But the 7th trumpet is after the tribulation. The last trumpet has to be the 7th trumpet or even after that. I think it is the 7th. But either way the LAST trumpet comes after the tribulation. I do not see any way the last trumpet could be before the tribulation. I used to be scared of the tribulation. But that is before I went through great tribulation far beyond my ability to endure. Indeed in my heart I felt the sentence of death. But this happened so I might not trust in myself, but trust in God who raises the dead. I have been now raised from the dead, so to speak, and I no longer have this fear of death that I had. We need not fear the great tribulation, for all they can do is to kill our bodies. We can trust in the God who raises the dead. We can trust is Jesus who died before us and was raised before us and sits on the throne in heaven. Lou
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JESUS SAYS THE WEEDS ARE GATHERED BEFORE THE SAINTS

Posted On: 08/05/08 09:04:52 AM

Age 64, OH

24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?' 28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' 29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: FIRST COLLECT THE WEEDS and tie them in bundles to be burned; THEN GATHER THE WHEAT and bring it into my barn.' "-- Notice that the harvest is one event and not two. But even more important the weeds are gathered first not the saints.-- Jesus explains this parable, 37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE AGE, and the harvesters are angels. 40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43THEN THE RIGHTEOUS will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.-- Jesus shows us here that the harvest is one event not two and the saints are gathered AFTER the weeds. Patrick Burwell pointed this out to me over a year ago. Lou
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You forgot something

Posted On: 08/05/08 09:01:27 AM

Age 48, CA

Currently, it is America who is arrogantly tellingthe world "Conform to our ays or be bombed!" The necon Chriostians are the ultimate opastasy.
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Go back to Dailykos
Posted On: 08/05/08 02:10:42 PM Age 49, MT
Either quit spouting slogans and unsubstantiated assertions, or go back to dailykos where they welcome that kind of thing. Come back when you have something to relevant to contribute; you know - something having to do with the actual topic.
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More than one perspective

Posted On: 08/05/08 08:58:36 AM

Age 49, MT

There are a variety of perspectives in Christendom regarding the end of days, and the author has explained one. "Explained" may be a stretch, because pre-trib pre-millenial dispensationalism makes less and less sense to me as the years go by. It is a convoluted, scripture-picking, speculative approach using wildly divergent interpetations of sometimes obscure Scriptures. I read and studied Hal Lindsey's books in the early 70s, and was a devotee. But then I realized there was no fruit from all this. It makes no difference in a believer's day-to-day life or relationship with Christ. Lastly, I have grown weary of the latest world event being "fit" into endtimes scenarios. I am truly surprised that Hal Lindsey retains any credibility at all, but his is still milking the gravy train.
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LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH
Posted On: 08/05/08 12:04:34 PM Age 64, OH
I read the "Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal and wondered and prayed about it. If one would go back and read it now, it sounds preposterous. It has not stood the test of time even for these few years. Hal knows nothing of prophecy let alone be an expert as he claims. He does not know the first thing about The Revelation. These men promise much but give nothing. Lou
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I, too, grow weary
Posted On: 08/05/08 11:07:23 AM Age 61, MO
I have been taken down a lot of rabbit trails regarding end time prophecy. I live as if Christ could return at any time. "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." (Revelation 22:10-12). George Cancilla
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well said, sir.
Posted On: 08/05/08 02:14:36 PM Age 49, MT
A heart of worship and a life of obedience, listening for the voice of the Good Shepherd, and being about the Father's work, this is what pleases God. it's amazing what we allow to divert our attention.
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