Who are you allowing yourself to be aligned with
| Posted On: 08/14/08 09:02:56 PM |
Age 53, NV |
on Moriel Ministries Jakob Pradesh has an excellent article on this very thing..
Sadly, when we 'attend' or 'speak' at a event we are lending credibility to the false teachers when they use our public image in their PR.
Perhaps Ray can state "I will attend and pay my own way, but will not allow my image or name to appear on any PR materials, other than the actual list of speaker on that 'day' I will be speaking...
Sure he might not get as many requests, but Scripture warns all believes to avoid 'even the appearance' of evil.
If Ray truly believes that God alone opens the eyes of those He calls, then we should be careful to not trust God fully to bring those captives out of false teachings. Those who are truly saved WILL seek the shepherd as Jesus stated "My Sheep KNOW My voice and FOLLOW Me".
So many of the goats will only see Ray appearing at their event(s) as justification for the false teachings, and instead of a 'few' being saved many more will follow the wide path, thinking since "Ray" is appearing the WOF 'must' be okay... Those who attend WOF churches and events bring their bibles and even read them; they alone are responsible for determining truth. Scripture warns over and over about this....
Sorry, but this greatly disturbs me and I am praying that God will open Ray's eyes to the danger of his aligning himself with WOF by 'allowing' them to use him in their PR....
Sure Paul preached at Mars Hill, but he did not publize his upcoming appearances, he just showed up and began preaching..
Maybe a better way would be for Ray to Open Air outside where the WOF conferences are being held?
Much Like Lawman Tony did when Todd Bentley was appearing in Los Angeles, but of course then Ray might not get invited back on TBN....
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no one said Ray teaches prosperity gospel
| Posted On: 07/29/08 08:41:59 PM |
Age 38, MN |
what was said was that it was wrong to associate so closely with false teachers and let them use you to promote their own program. This is exactly what has happened, and yet Ray has yet to openly without excuse say "I was wrong, Ken and Ingrid were right." Even though he has admitted he was horrified to see his face plastered up there with these charlatans.
The goal I think is to preach so clearly that the TRUE gospel and the FALSE gospel are seen in high relief. Apparently this did not happen. There is a place for rebuking false teaching, and so far Ray has let Todd Friel handle all of that nasty aspect of being a Christian speaker.
Funny though that Friel hasn't spoken out against Avanzini and what he said at the conference and what he did with Ray's million dollar bill tracts.
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Judge doctrine not the heart
| Posted On: 07/15/08 07:19:22 AM |
Age 48, AL |
We need to go into all the world to preach the gospel...even if the world is in the professing church. Our obligation to our brethren is to hold them accountable to sound doctrine and not to where it is allowed to be preached. When Jesus and the apostles taught in the synagogues were they somehow supporting the Pharasee's doctrine? Blessings, Mac
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- NO Jesus spoke in the synagogues and REBUKED the pharisees!
| Posted On: 07/29/08 08:43:24 PM | | Age 38, MN |
Jesus spoke in the midst of false teachers, yes, and got the false teachers so angry they CRUCIFIED HIM.
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Ray Comfort Doesn't Preach False Prosperity
| Posted On: 07/11/08 12:31:06 PM |
Age 46, TX |
Ray, thanks for this open-hearted alert. I personally testify to the false claims that Ray Comfort preaches any strand of the false prosperity gospel and that those people deceived by this evil error need the Gospel message that Comfort is preaching...law, cross, resurrection, grace, repentance, etc. May God open even more doors for you among those trapped under the spell of the falsehoods propagated by the Word/Faith deceivers (2 Pet. 2:1-4). Those who support such error are going to pay eternally for doing so (2 Jn. 7-11; Ezek. 14:10; 2 Pet. 2:1-5, etc.).
Jesus is coming - ready or not... The LORD bless and continue to teach Ray Comfort our beloved brother in Christ... todd tomasella www.SafeGuardYourSoul.com
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If you going to preach the gospel.....
| Posted On: 07/09/08 04:26:18 PM |
Age 36, IL |
I can see Rays logic but there is also big money at stake here. Honorariums, merchandise , book sales this could easily be a 6 figure gig..... it is a prosperity conference remember. Big ministries have to pay the bills. I would encourage Ray to do it for the right reasons. Preach the gospel and try to get resources in to the hands of these false converts, discount WOM materials for the weekend to show your really there for ministry and not money like everyone else.
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- JESUS NEVER CHARGED
| Posted On: 07/10/08 02:16:48 PM | | Age 64, OH |
If we preach for money then it is not the gospel we preach at all. If we sell to the poor what God has freely given us, then how are we any different than the money changers Jesus chased from the temple. If we follow Jesus, then we should be like try to be like Jesus in all things. Jesus never charged money for the gospel. The disciples said how can we feed all these people. But it was their LACK of faith speaking. Jesus looked to heaven and then prayed; and the 5000 were all fed. Lou
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- But We Are Commanded To Take Care of Elders and Deacons
| Posted On: 07/12/08 05:52:55 PM | | Age 40, NH |
Fine line but we are to take care of those who preach, teach, shepherd, serve, etc. We are not to muzzle the ox while making sure the person is an ox and not a fox.
Grace and Peace,
Jim
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- HOW CAN WE CHARGE FOR WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVES US BY GRACE
| Posted On: 07/14/08 01:07:32 PM | | Age 64, OH |
Thank you for the kind reply, Jim. Jesus or the prophets of old NEVER charged for The Word of The Lord on one hand but on the other the people were just enough to take gifts to these men. I think the late Kieth Green had a Godly way of getting his materials out to people. He said they were available for what ever you could afford. If you wanted his book or record and could not afford to pay then he would send it to you. He then asked others to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and if they could afford more than the cost of the material maybe they could send enough for others. How can I charge for something the Holy Spirit has given me by grace and grace alone. Of course I have studied for 33 years and now study every day all day long. I have only what the Lord sends me and drive a 16 year old car. Lou
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PREACH JESUS CHRIST CRUCIFIED
| Posted On: 07/09/08 02:09:58 PM |
Age 64, OH |
The pharisees were certainly preaching death and not life, but Jesus went into their homes and churches. You can not go into the WOF churches and force people to leave can you. If these churches are full of false converts, as I would think them to be, then go into these churches and preach Jesus Christ crucified. If these false converts are following these wolves, what better can any man do than cause them to follow Jesus Christ instead. Ray is not leaving these people to the wolves when he leaves, but he is leaving them with Jesus Christ. Do you know any better hands to leave them in. If these wolves preach lies, then go in and preach the Truth. All will choose as they see fit. If someone gives their life to Jesus Christ, then no one can snatch them from His hands. Jesus will lead them out of those false preaches churches, when He opens their eyes. Lou
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Thankful
| Posted On: 07/09/08 04:50:58 AM |
Age 58, AR |
I'm thankful that two writers on the same site can disagree. Thanks be to God for the freedom to speak our beliefs.....so far.
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Ray is right...some are too quick to judge
| Posted On: 07/08/08 10:00:53 PM |
Age 33, PA |
I really value this website and all the faithful men and women of God who stand against apostasy and heretical teachings. Yet sometimes, the stones are cast in haste. We should not as Christians so quickly assume that anyone who even speaks at/to a group automatically agrees with them. Ray is obviously a man of God who has given his life to point out the way to true salvation. His accepting to PREACH THE GOSPEL, not to just be a speaker amongst a list of various speakers on WOF topics, makes this different than someone supporting a movement or message. He is there to PREACH, just as Christ did.
I can also say, as one brought up in the Charismatic church (an am no longer associated with the movement in any way because of some false teachings-such as those that concern the WOF movement), that there are people who follow these movements who ARE saved, as I was. I was not taught in that movement that I am saved and worship God BECAUSE of what he could do for me. I did not worship a false Jesus. I was pointed to the Bible and taught to search the scriptures. I was taught the truth about who Jesus was and accepted and loved Jesus for what he already did for me on the cross. There are many in the charismatic churches that are saved. However, they have a false expectation of what God wants to also do in their lives, as a result of their faith, obedience, words, etc. Too much to go into here. But the point is that although the teachings are Biblically incorrect, not all WOF / Charismatic preachers are outright heretics. I was certainly never taught that I was a little god. Some just have a poor understanding of how God operates.
For those that are heretics and preaching this health/wealth message for financial gain, God will judge them...BUT God is GREAT and can use even these men and their meetings to bring people to Him.
Ray is one way God can move to touch people who may or may not have been taught the True Gospel, and have also believed false things about what God wants for their lives after salvation.
Ray, I would encourage you to go to the conference and preach the Gospel. Consider telling the attendees how they must understand, accept, and follow God because of their sin and His atonement for that sin...and WITHOUT any EXPECTATION or false understanding that God will give them anything else in return or that their walk will be easy. Consider pointing out that the disciples had to give up everything in this lifetime, including riches and their own lives...and that their reward was on heaven not on Earth. Encourage them to know the Bible and to test ALL teachings and spirits against it! I think that will drive home the point!
Ultimately, Ray stands before God and a decision to preach the TRUE Gospel is a decision we should applaude. If the Lord calls Him to say more and 'stand against' the heresy of the WOF false teachings, I trust Ray will do that. If he does not feel that his calling in this instance, I hope, trust and pray that we will leave the judgement to the Lord and not be so quick to cast our stones at this Man of God.
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Thoughts...
| Posted On: 07/08/08 05:08:48 PM |
Age 20, MN |
In all out honesty, I think we ought to be giving Ray Comfort the doubt, though giving him healthy reminders to tread on the narrow path are good as well. Be careful, all of you, so not to judge in an unbiblical way. Judge according to the Divine standard, not according to appearances. Have a great day everyone! :)
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Patrick Burwell of OnlyJesusSaves.com says...
| Posted On: 07/08/08 03:24:25 PM |
Age 45, NJ |
...that Ray takes his responsibility to hold to the truth VERY SERIOUSLY. If he is invited to speak among heretics then goes with the expressed explanation that he is NOT in agreement with their teachings. ray will make clear when he is there to denounce false wealth and prosperity teachings AS HE PREACHES THE GOSPEL TO THEM.
If I was asked to preach at a Roman Catholic Church I would be clear that ALL idolatry is sin. And I would use that as the springboard for the full gospel message I would then preach.
This is what Ray does and I applaud him for it.
Patrick J Burwell//OnlyJesusSaves.com
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