yes, but....
| Posted On: 10/09/09 10:15:28 AM |
Age 52, FM |
We have a strong "AA" group in our church and a weekly meeting on Saturday nights. Is AA the answer? Of course not. But so many times, so many come to Jesus through AA. It is often a door that God uses, regardless of its roots. It seems your time could be better spent elsewhere than on the roots . . . many of which, for many of us, in MANY instances, are iffy . . . but that God uses to bring all to Himself. God bless. I do understand your heart for things to be good and right . . . just thinking it is years since the beginning and all can be used for Him. And is. Thanks, clc
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- Disobedient to Christ
| Posted On: 10/12/09 11:53:08 AM | | Age 56, OR |
Unfortunately, the origin of AA must be constantly examined since prolific pro-AA author Dick B. and others have introduced a false "Christian" origin to both AA and the 12 Steps. This false belief has been the reason many have decided to join this polytheistic religion.
Christ never intends for us to join with a false religion because we believe some may be saved. We are to be missionaries, not participants. Your own church, for instance, should take a look at 2 Corinthians 6:14-17...and make some changes.
The Lord is patient. But the Bible is clear.
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- AA's deceptive origin
| Posted On: 10/10/09 01:14:04 PM | | Age 56, OR |
There have been so many books claiming AA is Christian in origin that this lie has been believed by most Christians.
When we mix with another religion--as AA certainly is--we as God's people become weakened. Missionary Laura Enderlin, noting with sadness a church that allowed AA to hold meetings there, said, "You ever noticed how these churches are never the same once they do this?"
Well, I have noticed. And the Bible is clear. I thank you for your polite and thoughtful comments, but again, if were obey the Bible, we will not be in AA at all--except as missionaries.
John
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A.A. A Three Legacy Program.
| Posted On: 09/25/09 03:51:04 PM |
Age 39, TX |
I consistently find that those who refute or reject the A.A. "12" steps of recovery",often fail to investigate thoroughly the "12 Traditions" and " The 12 Concepts for World Service" which are also an intergral part of the A.A. program as a whole,minus these vital concepts and principals, an Alcoholics recovery "from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body"is precarious at best,for it is my personal experience that I was introduced to a loving and caring and merciful God through the "12 Steps",much the same way I experienced him,and found him in "The Old Testament", through working and putting into practice the "A.A. 12 Traditions" into my daily life I began to recognize the "unity" and love of our "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ",It was then through the "12 Concepts" I began to experience and more importantly recognize the power of the "Holy Spirit" and what it is to truly recognize and care and love "my neighbor".Though the "big book" has and will continue to be the basic text of the fellowship in which I actively belong. It is in "Holy Scripture", the "Living Word" of God, "The Bible",that I find my Salvation in the Body and Blood of our Risen Lord. In closing: I was introduced to my "Heavenly Father" through "the 12 steps",I came to believe in the Love,Grace,and Mercy of my "Lord" Christ Jesus through the "A.A 12 Traditions".Finally,the divine revelation of the truth of "the Scriptures" and the Power of "The Holy Spirit" was recognizable to me once I became "willing" to practice "A.A. 12 Concepts". I now know a love and a compassion for "my neighbor",whether alcoholic or non-alcoholic that I believed once to be beyond my capacity as a human being. Your article falls far short of the truth,if it does not examine and investigate the "A.A. program "as a whole and the indeliable an undeniable impact it has had on our world.
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- The Lost Symbol
| Posted On: 10/22/09 10:02:32 AM | | Age 48, TX |
I am an ex AA,r and no I am not drunk, lol
I have just started reading the book The Lost Symbol by Dan Brown its about the Masons. I am reading along and all of the sudden I get this weird feeling like DeJaVu and I realize that what I am reading about Masonic beleifs in a High Power, and Architect of the Univers sounded like what I read in AA literature namely The Big Book. I also realized that the AA symbol of the triangle within the circle came from FreeMasonry. AA when it first got started was run like a Masonic Lodge with only certain people allowed in and secrecy "Anonymous". I beleive somebody probably Bill and Bob both were Masons and I wonder why that fact has never been talked about at an AA meeting. I now know I never have to hit a bottom hard enough to make me go back to that place. It made me worse before I got out and got better. I see my AA friends on occasion, usually when one has died. They interact with me as if I am a traitor or something and of course there is no way I am sober. I hate that place.
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- AA is not for believers
| Posted On: 09/29/09 10:18:14 AM | | Age 56, OR |
You write, "Though the "big book" has and will continue to be the basic text of the fellowship in which I actively belong..."
My friend, for those who want to stay true to the Biblical Jesus, this should be a problem;this should be anathema.
The AA Big Book teaches,"Sometimes we had to search fearlessly but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis, it is only there that He may be found. IT WAS SO WITH US." (capitals mine, pg. 55)
So not only are alcoholics told that "god" is within, the writers testify that this was so with them! I am sorry, but this is heresy.
God does not dwell in all people--only in those who have accepted Jesus Christ. (Romans 8:9-14)
Throughout Scripture the Lord forbids spiritual fellowship with non-believers. He warned Solomon what would happen because of his heathen wives. (1 Kings 11); He approved of King Josiah’s agony over the false gods in the Temple. (2 Kings 22:8-23:24); He clearly commands us to be a separate people. (2 Corinthians 6:14-17) Belonging to the 12 Step religion, where all “gods” are seen as equal, is a grave insult to the Ancient of Days.
For great is the Lord and greatly to be praised; He is to be feared above all gods. For all the gods of the peoples are idols, But the Lord made the heavens. (Psalm 96:4-5)
Make no mistake—the success of A.A. is not in treatment effectiveness, which is limited, but in public relations and publicity. A.A. and other 12 Step groups have excelled not in bringing people to Jesus, but in weakening the Body of Christ, and steering the culture away from the God of the Bible.
We should be ministering to these folks, not participating in an anti-Christian religion with them.
I am glad you are sober. But it is time to come out and be separate. How many have NOT been saved because in their time of pain they were told it didn't matter what "god" they cried out to?
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an alcoholic forever
| Posted On: 07/04/09 06:03:01 PM |
Age 51, RI |
So very sad! Alcoholism is a disease which effects your mind, body, and soul.This is a fatal disease and for us to drink is to die.
It is a disease which has a spirtual solution. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stay sober. If you do not fill that requirment why are you even concerning yourselves with this fellowship.
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- Please Consider
| Posted On: 07/18/09 02:48:37 PM | | Age 56, OR |
My friend, what if Alcoholics Anonymous is not the only way to get sober? You sure never hear that in A.A., and I speak as one who has been to hundreds of meetings.
What if the Bible is true, and there is only one way to spend eternity in heaven with God? What if all the people in A.A., with their made-up gods, face an eternity of horror?
A Holy God calls, and waits. He is clear in His Word: Jesus tells us, "No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) No one! In Acts, Peter testifies of Jesus, "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)
Many alcoholics are physically addicted, as I once was. But being drunk is a SIN. You sure never hear this in A.A.
Jesus Christ delivered me from the streets, heroin addiction, alcoholism, and much more.
I understand your point of view, and thank you for taking the time to read the article.
Although successful in public relations and publicity, Alcoholics Anonymous has a success rate of around 1 in 20.
As long as A.A., with its chameleon theology, goes unchallenged, even the alcoholics who seek help will continue to suffer here--and in the afterlife.
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Discontent
| Posted On: 06/10/09 09:11:16 AM |
Age 45, PA |
John,
It must be a tough job sitting at the right hand of the father, being allowed to pass judgement on everyone who doesn't agree with your insanity. The Jesus Christ of my life was an all inclusive, all loving, example of the word of God, not the word of John. When I think of God and/or Jesus Christ the last thought(s) that come to mind are of people such as yourself.
Your the individual who votes against abortion for women, and then the next day you vote for the death penalty. Your the individual who thinks its OK to kill those who don't think and/or believe like you. Your the individual who thinks that the color of someone's skin determines their lot in life.
The pain that you must be feeling on a daily basis because everyone doesn't agree with you must be overwhelming. The fact that we just don't get it must cause you sleepless nights. The anger, resentment, discontent you feel must make you throw your hands into the air and shout out to God------Father, why are they so stupid.
If someday you would like to be happy, joyous and free I suggest you find one of us heathen AA members and allow us the opportunity to take you threw the 12 steps of our program, so that you to can come to understand what a spiritual awakening is truly all about, and in the process work out all of that angst and hatred you have for those who don't think exactly the way you do.
Christ in his final moments asked of our father, forgive them for they know not what they do. He did not ask to punish them.
AA has saved millions of lives because we are all inclusive, all loving just as God and Christ are.
Have a wonderful day John, and may God always keep you near him, bless you, and protect you.
Duke Belmonte
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- A.A. is universalist religion
| Posted On: 06/11/09 05:19:56 PM | | Age 55, OR |
Wow,Duke. You gave it to me both barrels, even managed to unjustly accuse me of racism,not that that has anything to do with any article I have ever written.
Duke, I have been to hundreds of meetings. I am very familiar with the A.A. religion, and know there are many wonderful people in it.
Jesus Christ is not all-inclusive,Duke. He tells us, "I am the way and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6)
A.A. is very deceptive in a spiritual sense, because people are encouraged to make up any "god" they imagine--be it an ant, an antler, or an avocado--as they float through the 12 Step faith system.
The cofounders, men who loved their fellow alcoholics and would do anything for them, were not Christians. This is another misrepresentation.
It is Alcoholics Anonymous, more than any other factor, that has caused the spiritual breakdown in America. I'm not angry at all, Duke. I am doing what the Lord has given me to do--warn His sheep.
And Duke, many of us had best beware. Christians who promote this system, this all-gods religion, are going to answer to the King. Is that too blunt for you?
Here is what the Bible says about spreading this all-gods gospel: "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!" (Galatians 1:6-8)
A.A. is a place one can be very comfortable with sin. It is also a spiritual system we are not to participate in.
Thanks for taking the time to read the article.
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Let he who is without sin throw the first stone!!!
| Posted On: 12/07/08 05:38:15 PM |
Age 49, MN |
I am so tiered of evangelical Christians cutting down AA. If I want to dwell on the negatives I can find with Evangelical Christians, there is plenty to look at. I chose instead to look for positives in both organizations; after all, AA and Christians are really heading toward the same goal, helping people lead a better life and encouraging people to form a personal relationship with God. I have written more about this in my book "12 Steps to a More Effective Christian Witness” (learn more at ChristInRecovery.com) In this book I have taken pains to back up every assumption I have made about the worthiness of 12 step programs with passages from the Bible. I would love for any of you to read it and tell me where I have misinterpreted scripture. The 12 steps are about self-examination with guidance from the Holy Spirit. When Christians spend so much time pointing at someone else and condemning them for their beliefs and actions, it makes me wonder if thy are trying to avoid looking at something the Holy Spirit may be urging them to look at in themselves.
Alvin V.
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Controversial ...but it's true.
| Posted On: 11/24/08 12:41:13 PM |
Age 45, ENGLAND |
Unfortunately all the core members who had a hand in starting AA meetings did, without exception, dabble in magic. This tradition is the reason so many people who attend AA today are more inclined to nervous breakdowns than the man in the street.
The 'magical' roots of AA remain concealed but more is emerging each year that was hitherto unknown about its progenitors devotion to the occult. One tragic aspect is most people who attend AA will, from time to time, sense all is not well but through the teaching of AA are encouraged to lay the blame for these disquieting feelings at the door of their inner-self.
Controversial, I know , but so true all the same.
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- Spiritualism AND Magic?
| Posted On: 12/02/08 10:42:14 AM | | Age 55, OR |
A.A. cofounder Bill Wilson apparently did consider the A.A. symbol, the triangle within the circle, as a magic talisman of sorts. In 'Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age,' Wilson writes,“That we have chosen this symbol is perhaps no mere accident. The priests and seers of antiquity regarded the circle enclosing the triangle as a means of warding off spirits of evil, and AA’s circle of Recovery, Unity, and Service has certainly meant all that to us and much more.”(Pg.139)
I have posted your comment on my blog www.mywordlikefire.wordpress.com
Please contact me as I am interested in any information you may have. As I am sure you know A.A. closed off the 'spook files' from public access.
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Just the facts, Mam. Read before you write
| Posted On: 09/14/08 10:19:32 PM |
Age 83, HI |
Many of the author's continued remarks about AAs, A.A., its cofounders, and Christianity ought viewed in light of the facts in The Conversion of Bill W. ISBN 1885803907 and Dr. Bob of Alcoholics Anonymous ISBN 1885803850
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Alcoholics Anonymous Cofounders Were . . . Christians
| Posted On: 07/04/08 05:15:30 AM |
Age 53, HI |
John,
Thank you for mentioning Dick B. and three of the more than 30 titles he has written--Anne Smith's Journal, 1933-1939, The Oxford Group and Alcoholics Anonymous, and The Conversion of Bill W.--in conjunction with his 18 years of research and writing about the role of the CREATOR of the heavens and the earth, of His Son Jesus Christ, and of the Bible in early Alcoholics Anonymous.
The Son of GOD, Jesus Christ, stated in John 3:16, 17: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (KJV)
Rom 10:9, 10 states: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (KJV)
And Eph 1:13, 14 states: "In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." (KJV)
It would appear that among the logical claims you are making in your article are the following:
(1a) Emmet Fox's book, The Sermon on the Mount, played a role in early A.A.; (1b) some of Emmet Fox's views were non-Christian and/or heretical; (1c) if non-Christian and/or heretical views influence a person or organization, that person or organization must not be "Christian"; and therefore (1d) early A.A. could not have been "Christian."
(2a) a child of GOD would not sin--e.g., by being involved with spiritualism; (2b) Bill and Bob were involved in spiritualism; and therefore (2c) Neither Bill nor Bob could have been children of GOD.
The book of Romans is addressed to "all that be in Rome . . . called [to be] saints" (Rom 1:7a, KJV)
Rom 12:2 states: "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (KJV)
When a human being chooses to become a child of GOD via the new birth (salvation, conversion, receiving eternal life--cp. John 3:16, 17; Rom 10:9, 10), that person must then choose to renew their mind, thought-by-thought (cp. Rom 12:2). Holy Spirit sealed within a child of GOD (cp. Eph 1:13, 14) does not force that person to never sin again.
Dick B.'s title, The Conversion of Bill W., presents extensive documentation indicating that Bill became a child of GOD between the time he went to Calvary Rescue Mission and the time he completed his most eventful stay in Towns Hospital. Have you read that book?
By the way, Dick B.'s most recent title is actually Dr. Bob of Alcoholics Anonymous: His Excellent Training in the Good Book As a Youngster in Vermont. It presents, in more than 350 pages the evidence for Dr. Bob's having become a child of GOD in his youth.
Your readers may get more information about the evidence that Bill W. and Dr. Bob were children of GOD on Dick B.'s web site.
In GOD's love, Ken Burns
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- QUIT CLAIMING THEY WERE CHRISTIANS
| Posted On: 06/17/09 10:29:24 AM | | Age 55, OR |
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?" (Matthew 7:16)
Wilson had six mistresses, the last of whom received royalties from sales of the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book. Wilson investigated and used LSD, hoping it would make possible the "influx of God's grace" to help alcoholics for whom A.A. was ineffective. (PASS IT ON pg.370)This is blasphemy.
He was a man thoroughly in thrall to demonic spirits, and he is documented as allowing them to enter and use him to speak their esoteric messages. (See: http://www.worldviewtimes.com/article.php/articleid-4026/Brannon-Howse/John-Lanagan )
Dick B.'s claims and faulty scholarship have caused havoc in the Body of Christ, because now we have people using A.A., even though it is obviously anti-biblical. (2 Cor. 6:14-17, Galatians 1: 6-9)Alcoholics Anonymous is the gateway to universalism.
What do other A.A historians say about Bill Wilson's alleged Christianity? Well, Wilson's friend Robert Thomsen, who wrote the very first biography of Bill Wilson describes the new age “god” Bill Wilson experienced: “There could be no doubt of ultimate order in the universe, the cosmos was not dead matter, but a part of the living Presence, just as he was part of it. Now, in place of the light, the exaltation, he was filled with a peace such as he had never known. He had heard of men who’d tried to open the universe to themselves; he had opened himself to the universe. He had heard men say there was a bit of God in everyone, but this feeling that he was a part of God, himself a living part of the higher power, was a new and revolutionary feeling.” (Bill W., by Robert Thomsen, pg.223)
This is panentheism, not Biblical Christianity.
Biographer Francis Hartigan, who was secretary to Bill's wife, Lois, for many years, writes, “Rather than a lack of religious training, it is more likely that [Bill Wilson's] inability to fully accept that Jesus was ‘one hundred percent God’ was a product of his insistence on a scientific approach to things mystical." ('Bill W. by Francis Hartigan, pg. 175)
Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith tried to help alcoholics. Unfortunately, they helped many into hell.
Dick B., perhaps it is time to be less concerned with your "legacy" of your claims, and more concerned with eternity.
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THE CHURCH HAS FAILED ALCOHOLICS
| Posted On: 05/30/08 02:41:56 PM |
Age 64, OH |
John, you are attacking AA for not leading people to Jesus Christ who is The One and Only True God Almighty. Of course Jesus is The Answer, but are we to tear down AA that does try to help these poor alcoholics. You have criticized AA but where is your criticism of the church that ignored these people in the first place. These men will not go to church because they have been there before, only to be looked down upon. They are judged by people who have never been in their shoes. Most of the churches I have been in, I can not stand to go back to, and I am not an alcoholic. The pews are filled with people who USED TO BE SINNERS, BUT ARE NOW RIGHTEOUS. It was at the end of Paul's life that he said, "Of sinners I am chief". This is why Paul could help alcoholics or any other sinner, because he was one. You do not need to be an alcoholic to help one, but you do need to be one of them, that is a sinner just like they are. I would not tear down AA until I had been called of God, and built with the grace of God, a replacement for AA. Build a better AA and The Holy Spirit will send alcoholics to you. If you are not willing to do this then I think you should be careful in what you work to tear down. Grace and peace to you. Lou
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- Does it matter what AA is?
| Posted On: 11/23/08 01:28:34 AM | | Age 53, CA |
My name is JB and I am a believer in JESUS CHRIST who has been FREED from 30 years of BONDAGE to sin ...
through a Christian program which, yes, has 12 steps!
There is only ONE step and that is Jesus Christ ...
however - how do we learn to walk w/Christ? We have to recognize w/out Him we can do nothing; to realize our desperate need for Him; to be humble, to forgive, to let go of old thinking we grew up to believe was true and causes us to believe that's who we are today.
Today we are born again - we are loved by God the Father who sent His Son to die for our sins because HE LOVES US ...
So - through a "discicpleship" program of 12 steps ... I am now FREE from bondage to serve the Lord.
I serve in a program called Celebrate Recovery and for me, AA and the founders of AA And what they (or anyone else) believes really doesn't have anything to do with my
walk with Christ. It has NOTHING to do with their 12 step program.
We could make our 'dsicipleship' program 9 'steps' or 5 or whatever. It's not the steps by it's other believers seeing another believer struggling with the bondage of sin and can't seem to get out --
especially at church where everyone seems to be "fine". Celebrate Recovery was where I found out I was OK, that I wasn't alone and eventually realized how much GOD loves me.
And - I realized it because of God's Word and the love of God's people.
God bless.
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- A better AA
| Posted On: 06/10/08 08:24:09 AM | | Age 39, MD |
I am the wife of an alcoholic, and saw first hand the ineffectiveness of the church in helping an alcoholic get sober. He has not been drinking for almost 11 years, but the church did not help him. He is a member of AA, but unfortunately his life as a Christian is lukewarm.
But I want to tell you that there IS a better AA and the Holy Spirit is sending alcoholics to this program, along with drug addicts, sex addicts, the emotionally, physically or sexually abused, and anyone who has a hurt, habit or hangup that prevents them from being free in Christ. I am being called by God to serve in this program as a grateful believer who struggles with depression, co-dependency and food addiction. The name of the program is Celebrate Recovery. They have a web page and are all over the country.
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No longer an alcoholic
| Posted On: 05/27/08 10:10:49 AM |
Age 54, OR |
You are right--I am not an alcoholic. Not any longer. I have been freed through Jesus Christ. I believe most in AA and "!2 Step" Christian programs do worship the 12 Steps, although most would certainly be surprised to be confronted with this.
AA and the 12 Steps tend to become idols. In the Bible the Lord warned Solomon about his foreign wives and their strange gods. What happened? Solomon, the wisest man in the world, also began to worship those gods.
So it is all too often with people in AA. The Bible is secondary to the Big Book, Christ is simply a part of the 12 Step religious process.
I praise the Lord you are sober. I understand it is not enjoyable to have one's religion criticized. I do know what it is like to be in bondage to alcohol and heroin and other sins. But Christ freed me.
The Body of Christ needs to learn the truth about AA and the 12 Steps--they are not of God--and then we can move forward. Then He, the Ancient of Days, will show us what He wants us to do.
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- an alcoholic forever
| Posted On: 07/04/09 05:37:29 PM | | Age 51, RI |
DEar sir,
Once and alcoholic always an alcoholic,you will die with this disease.Hopefully not from it. There is no cure for this fatal disease. So sorry to hear that AA did not work for you.
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- Assumptions Assumptions???? Part 2
| Posted On: 05/28/08 03:59:37 PM | | Age 38, CA |
What a perfect mission field. Several desperate people swearing by something that they swear they know. Then knowledgable missionaries can come along and say, hey that's great, but you missed the most important part, if you don't get a personal relationship with Christ those people said it will not work. I'm sorry all of your previous effort went to waste on your doorknob, but if you really want life and want it more abundantly I can help you transition from that stuff to what you are supposed to be doing.
To use catchy little buzzwords like "your religion AA" etc. demonstrates the sort of religiosity and superiority complexes that immediately turns off most of the people I work with. Especially when God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
Is it truly humble to approach a down preson with the message of "what you are doing is all messed up, or the message of hey that stuff you got started off right but got all jacked up. I think I can show you where it is a little different from what you understand it to be and take you to the real source of all of that if you like.
In Christ
Alethinos P.
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- Again What????
| Posted On: 05/27/08 03:30:48 PM | | Age 30, MN |
I guess you didn't read my posts???? My religion is christianity, are you critizising christainity??? I thought you were a christain???? Again in another post I said I read the bible 45 minutes every morning. I read the big book one time through like a regular book and that was the end of it, and I'll say this one more time and I'm done. I And know one I attend AA with worships the twelve steps or makes AA a religion, you are WAY off base by saying that because you are generalizing which is always a bad thing to do. We get together once a week and talk about our lives and sobriety there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and we do discuss God and prayer. Every week we assemble a prayer list for everyone. So we can pray for the members who need a little extra help because they maybe having a rough time. You are making a lot of generalizing and judgemental statements and I don't understand that? It sounds to me like you had some bad excperiences with AA and I'm sorry for that, but it works for a lot of people and it is a god centered organazation and no matter how many books are written that won't chanege that. God bless AA!!!!
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