Genealogy of the Antichrist is worthless!
| Posted On: 05/21/08 04:35:37 PM |
Age 46, NY |
As Christians, should we be wasting our time with endless genealogies? What is the warning in Titus and 1Timothy say?
Have faith old man. What will be, will be.
Trust and obey. Avoid arguing and remove all religion from your mind. Let The Messiah rule in your life and give up the way of death.
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- disrespectful criticism
| Posted On: 05/21/08 11:36:45 PM | | Age 52, GA |
You want to let the messiah rule your life? Good, the first thing to realize, He is synonymous with the Word. "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us..." The Word advises not to be disrespectful to an elder brother, especially one as grounded in the truth as brother Missler (see 2 Tim. 5:1) Anyway, you are wrong about wasting time trying to figure out who our enemy is, we are supposed to do just that - "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666." We are called to be sober, watchful, and prayerful, this does not include being ignorant of the enemy's devices.
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- Disrespectful? I think not!
| Posted On: 05/22/08 11:41:36 AM | | Age 46, NY |
My enemy is anyone who tries to presume they know what the Will of God is for another person. Religion is a "one size fits all" response to God's grace. Your assumtion that I subscribe to your false religion of rules governing respect for falsehood is incorrect. I knew the article was a deception of the truth from the title. Do not feel so disturbed that men, even some women of all ages have understanding in relation to truth and falsehood. The Spirit of God reigns in the hearts of all who dilligently seek Him. Seek him and it matters very little what the enemy does.
Do you want to know who the AntiChrist is because of some desire to thwart the Will of God? There will be many who follow this man of lawlessness. There is nothing you can do to stop it. Not by might nor by the sword but by my Spirit says The Lord! The spirit of Truth and Love.
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- YOU HAVE MADE YOURSELF YOUR OWN ENEMY
| Posted On: 05/22/08 05:01:04 PM | | Age 64, OH |
You say, "My enemy is anyone who tries to presume they know what the Will of God is for another person". Are you not presuming that you know the will of God for Chuck. How can you say that The Lord Jesus has not moved Chuck to study this subject. As you yourself has said you can not know the will of God for someone else. And if you do presume to know the will of God for Chuck, have you not made yourself your own enemy. Lou
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Please remember 2 Thess 2 so when you see it come true, you won't be deceived
| Posted On: 05/21/08 03:37:41 PM |
Age 26, CANADA |
2 Thessalonians 2
The Man of Lawlessness
1Now concerning(A) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our(B) being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[a] 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or(C) alarmed, either(D) by a spirit or a(E) spoken word, or(F) a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3(G) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come,(H) unless the rebellion comes first, and(I) the man of lawlessness[b] is revealed,(J) the son of destruction,[c] 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God,(K) proclaiming himself to be God.
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Something doesn't add up
| Posted On: 05/21/08 03:33:30 PM |
Age 47, MO |
Chuck: You testified that the deceiver may even deceive the elect, but then you stated that he won't be revealed until after the rapture. I'm confused, who then may be deceived? Perhaps those who believe in a pre-trib rapture? John
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- THE ELECT IS STILL HERE IN THE TRIBULATION
| Posted On: 05/22/08 10:31:18 AM | | Age 64, OH |
Good point John, how can the elect be deceived if that were possible if the elect is already taken away. Lou
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- "The Elect" in Tribulation after the Rapture...
| Posted On: 05/23/08 09:24:20 AM | | Age 44, KY |
I am amazed that someone would offer up this argument as proof against the Rapture. My friend, as a result of the Rapture, there will be a number of folks who will realize their folly by not accepting salvation before the Rapture, and who will come to Yeshua Hammashiach, which we refer to as the "Tribulation Saints", and it is to them who this warning goes out! Ever read about the 144,000 Jewish Evangelist who will go forth during the 70th Week preaching the Word of YHWH, to which a number of folks will accept and come to Yeshua Hammashiach, only to loose their lives in many cases for accepting YHWH's grace! Those who died during this time are also the ones who come to the Wedding Feast after the Marriage of the Church to Yeshua in New Jerusalem, and before the 2nd Coming. They have a special position alot for them according to scriptures. Thus there is no contridition in Chuck's article or in the Bible, when referring to the rapture event and those who will will become the Elect (believers) and face the wrath of the Anti-Christ during the 7 years of Tribulation (70th Week of Daniel).
I understand you meant to help, not spite the author, but make sure you use the full counsel of all 66 books before correcting someone, though we all fall short from time to time.
barukh attah YWHW!
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- THE LAST TRUMPET
| Posted On: 05/23/08 12:09:14 PM | | Age 64, OH |
Thank you for your kind reply, if we look at the very scripture the pretrib people use in 1 Cor 15;50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory.- This is the rapture that you speak of is it not. But it also is the second coming if you read the whole thing because it is the final victory for WE WILL ALL BE CHANGED not just some of us. The dead will be raised, those alive will be changed, why take the dead for would they be hurt by the tribulation. But the important point is it is THE LAST TRUMPET. Men are liars but God is not. Last means that there is no other that follows in this age. THE means the one and only "last" trumpet. Go to The Revelation and read about the trumpets. They are the Tribulation and the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th CAN NOT be the last. The 7th is The last because it is the number of completeness, it comes right before the final victory that is pictured next, and it is after the other trumpets which are the Tribulation. Grace and peace to you. Lou
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- To Be Deceived or not to be Deceived.....
| Posted On: 05/21/08 10:22:35 PM | | Age 71, TN |
Ok...good point. Sounds like Chuck is somewhat confused. If the Rapture removes the elect how can they be deceived?
In John 17:15 he is praying to the Father asking Him not to take them out of the world, but that He protect them from the evil one. Doesn't sound like Jesus is pre-trib to me.
If all the saved (elect) are taken out of the world...saved from the anti-christ, who is left to preach the gospel?
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- Some additional help for those of you truly interested...
| Posted On: 05/23/08 09:47:05 AM | | Age 44, KY |
Brothers and Sisters,
If you are truly interested in the truth and getting a good grasp on End Time Prophecies you might check out the following sites and books: www.gracethrufaith.com which has some excellent articles and bible studies on End Time prophecies and related topics; "Foot Steps of the Messiah" by PhD. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, available at PhD. Fruchtenbaum's website - www.ariel.org as well as on www.amazon.com, and there is also an available study guide for this book, which I am not sure if Amazon.com carries, but can be purchased from www.ariel.org, also "Isralestine" by Bill Salus is a excellent read, if you want to see what the Bible says is going to happen to Israel and the world, very soon. You can pre-order the paperback version at Amazon.com or go to Bill's website at: http://missing-peace-bsalhus.blogspot.com/, and download a "E-Book" copy of it before it is published.
I think these resources will help you get a better grip on the subject of Tribulation, Rapture, End-Time Prophecie in General, and the Church and Israel's part in these events.
I hope this helps!
Barukh Attah YWHW! Yeshua attah hu Hammashiach ben-YWHW chayim! Mark
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- THE GREAT TRIBULATION
| Posted On: 05/23/08 12:29:31 PM | | Age 64, OH |
Here is a question for you, dear friend: In Matthew 24: 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of YOUR COMING AND OF THE END OF THE AGE?" ( NOTICE THAT IT NEVER MENTIONS THE RAPTURE BUT ONLY THE SECOND COMING)
4Jesus answered: "WATCH OUT THAT NO ONE DECEIVES YOU. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21FOR THEN THERE WILL BE GREAT DISTRESS, UNEQUALED FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD UNTIL NOW - AND NEVER TO BE EQUALED AGAIN. ( THIS HAS TO BE THE GREAT TRIBULATION FOR THERE IS NONE GREATER) 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23AT THAT TIME ( THE TIME OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION) if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29"IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE DISTRESS OF THOSE DAYS
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet(THE LAST TRUMPET)call, and they will GATHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. - WE CAN SEE HERE THAT THE RAPTURE IS AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION AND AT THE SECOND COMING. For a witness read THE RAPTURE at top of page to see Jesus says the lost will be gathered first and the wheat ( believers ) will be gathered next at the harvest. Grace and peace to you. Lou
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- Re: Something doesn't add up
| Posted On: 05/21/08 09:04:14 PM | | Age 25, GA |
Matthew 24:24 states that "if possible" the false christs and false prophets will deceive the elect.
This verse clearly implies that such deception is not possible. cf. John 10:4,5
A man is not talked into everlasting life, so he cannot be talked out of it.
He is elect of God and therefore cannot be "unelect." It would go against the very foundation of scripture.
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Chuck, you're missing info.
| Posted On: 05/21/08 02:22:11 PM |
Age 30, WA |
Possible candidates the Juan Carlos family? I thought that once also. But I think that we should look more towards the Western European Union. Being that it has 10 Full member states(Could it be the 10 Nation Confederacy mentioned in Daniel?.....Uh yeah, I think so) The WEU holds all the power and it is the military wing of the EU. I think those who study prophecy should look more towards the political leaders within the WEU's parliament. How about the office that was formed from Recommendation 666? Yeah, that's right the Recommendation's number just happened to be six hundred and sixy-six. Recommendations in the EU are like Resolutions in the US. Anyway, Recommendation 666 gives the office of the High Representative the authority to take over the WEU in the "event of an emergency." What constitutes an emergency, I don't know? Anyway, the Office of the High Representative is the Office of the Antichrist. From my brief study, it seems there are a number of High Representatives within the EU; however, I believe that the High Representative who is in charge of overseeing and implementing policy and foreign policy ect...truly holds the power. And "in the event of an emergency," I believe that somebody like Javier Solana(if not him) would be the Antichrist, not a King like Jaun Carlos and his spoiled brat lineage. The precedent has been set and the Office of the Antichrist has been created. I believe Javier Solana makes a great candidate. He was Secretary General of Nato, he has been instrumental in foregoing and stabilizing policy within the WEU. With the EU's 6 month rotating presidency, mirroring that of a honorary label that only makes room for an ineffective executive branch of government, it's the guys like Javier behind the scenes who really pull the strings. But it just so happens the Solana finds himself in the world spotlight. Like back on June 6th 2006(6-6-06) when he met with the Ahmedinajad to start talks with them regarding their "pursuit" of nuclear "technology." I'm not one to start forcing square numbers into round holes; however, I did find it funny. Solana might not be the Antichrist, but I know that whomever the Antichrist is, he knows Javier Solana. They probably share a cup of "The Blood of Saints" together. I crack myself up. I would be laughing a lot longer if it wasn't true.
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The Seed of the Serpent
| Posted On: 05/21/08 12:43:42 PM |
Age 73, MO |
Of course I think you are making a mistake when you place the wrong emphasis on the seed of the serpent, or for that matter the seed of the woman. The serpent is Satan, and the woman is Israel.
GEN 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
It is not the "seed" of the serpent, or the "seed" of the woman, it should be translated the "offspring" in both cases. Of course our KJV devotees will not open their eyes to any other translation, so they will continue to look for some genealogical connection for the Christ, and the Antichrist.
Thomas Gately
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The "rapture" and the "mark of the beast"
| Posted On: 05/21/08 07:54:23 AM |
Age 61, MO |
The doctrine of the “rapture” is commonly found in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. Throughout most of church history, these passages were associated with the final judgment, but beginning around 1830 in England, they became linked to an un-Biblical idea of a pre tribulation, pre millennial rapture. But whatever the word “rapture” means, it is a fact that the “last trump” signals the event. In the Revelation there are seven seals, the last of which is comprised of seven trumpets. The seventh of these seven trumpets is the last trump. The last trump comes after all the other events which the seals and trumpets represent which are great tribulations. Jesus only comes back once, signaled by the last trump, and after the tribulations. In the Revelation we see that the false prophet will “cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads.” (Revelation 13:16). This is the “mark of the beast.” It is not a physical brand, computer implant, or social security number. It is a spiritual mark of ownership. People who have this mark are those who have given servitude to Satan in their works (right hand) and in their motivation (mind or forehead). The next verse says that man will not be able to buy or sell unless he receives the mark. Buying or selling is the world’s way of living. There is nothing wrong with buying or selling, unless we do it under the servitude of Satan. Buying and selling are meant to be spiritual issues, and buying and selling are the antithesis of God’s way. With God there is only unconditional surrender. There is no deal making. Spiritual buying and selling is often manifested in legalism. It often takes the form of “scratching” God’s back so He will “scratch” back. But there is no bargaining at the foot of the Cross. There is only a recognition of total helplessness and unconditional surrender. George Cancilla
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- opinions are like...
| Posted On: 05/21/08 11:46:12 PM | | Age 52, GA |
I know you feel like you've studied the subject thoroughly George, but there are many learned reputable scholars that have concluded otherwise. In my humble opinion, anyone that would argue against a pre-tribulation rapture should be careful, they might just get what they're arguing for...
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- THE GREATEST TEACHER ON THIS EARTH
| Posted On: 05/23/08 08:51:18 AM | | Age 64, OH |
You speak of scholars, but are not all scholars mere puny men. Schools and scholars mean nothing to me. I put my trust in the TEACHER who is doing the teaching. I asked the greatest Teacher who has ever existed about this issue years ago because I did not know The Truth about it and wanted to know. After I asked Jesus about it, I was patient and did not seek men but looked into the Book to see if Jesus would speak to me. He has shown me that the pretrib rapture is not in the scriptures and that the scriptures clearly show that the lost are going to be taken away before we Christians. Look at my post at the top of page one titled THE RAPTURE. Lou
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- If one questions the idea of pre-trib rapture...
| Posted On: 05/23/08 12:15:10 AM | | Age 31, IA |
does that mean one wants to live through the Great Tribulation? I don't think so. As Americans, what do we know about tribulation? Tell the Christians from Nigeria to China that God will protect them from tribulation. They live everyday like Judgement Day is tomorrow. Whether they get shot or have their fingernails yanked, I think they're better prepared to face God than the typical American Christian is. That doesn't mean I like it.
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- Reputable scholars?
| Posted On: 05/22/08 05:52:07 PM | | Age 61, MO |
Allison Krause has recorded a song called: "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." I guess I'll just have to get over it. George Cancilla
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- BEN FRANKLIN AGREES
| Posted On: 05/23/08 12:36:30 PM | | Age 64, OH |
George; Ben Franklin said, "That the Deity is a being of great goodness appears in His giving life to so many creatures, each of which acknowledges it a benefit by its unwillingness to leave it;" - I read this in David Barton's article "The Founding Fathers on Creation and Evolution". Lou
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The first beast of the Revelation
| Posted On: 05/21/08 07:19:26 AM |
Age 61, MO |
The Bible must have an interpretation for every generation since the beginning of history. A fallacy of Scriptural interpretation has had people looking here, there, and everywhere, for who might be the Anti Christ, who might be the False Prophet, and what will be the mark of the beast. We are led to look everywhere except within ourselves. But that is where these ominous characters described in the Revelation are to be found. Just as the Body of Christ is the summation of Christ in people, so is the “beast” or anti Christ the summation of all who are in rebellion against God in every way. Anti Christ is a collective spirit body, not an individual. “And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now is ALREADY in the world.” (1 John 4:3). The “man of sin” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is an allegorical man who seeks to fix himself rather than turn to Christ. In the Revelation, John has a vision of the beast coming up out of the sea, ever rising. The “sea” is humanity. The beast will “stand” in the “temple” and proclaim to be Christ. Individuals are the temple of the Holy Spirit. The beast takes over individual temples until a collective antichristian spirit would permeate the entire world if it were not cut short. We can see evidence of how this beast is ever rising when standards or absolutes of right and wrong are being rejected en masse. When people view freedom as casting off the restraints of morality, and glory in man being able to do what he pleases, then they have succumbed to the beast. Fortunately, God preserves a remnant from every generation. (See Romans 11:3-5). Christianity without the Cross is the False Prophet or second beast of the Revelation. It rises out of the earth. It is of the earth and therefore not of heaven. It is not any individual per se. Revelation describes this beast as looking like a lamb. It must look like a lamb so as to deceive many into thinking it is the Lamb of God. This beast promotes everything the first beast embodies, under the guise of Christianity. The false prophet tells people to make an image of the first beast, which image represents an attitude of rebellion against God. The false prophet turns this rebellion into a religious thing, often called humanism, new spirituality, etc. to legitimize man as his own God. George Cancilla
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- I appreciate you
| Posted On: 05/22/08 08:06:26 AM | | Age 28, MN |
George - I always appreciate your insight and comments. You seem to have so much wisdom and are able to share it in a quietly respectful but firm and unwavering way. Whenever I read an article that has your comments to follow, I know that I will gain twice as much insight into the topic. Thank you and God bless you.
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- the first beast of revelation
| Posted On: 05/22/08 03:06:29 AM | | Age 500, AR |
i agree.
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I agree, Let's be ready for the rapture!
| Posted On: 05/21/08 06:16:19 AM |
Age 46, OH |
I do not want to see the Antichrist. I know that there are pre, mid, and post-millineal
theories about the second coming of Christ and I am not ready to argue who is exactly right on this issue. My view is, I want to be ready. I want my family and friends to be ready. I want my neighbors and co-workers to be ready. I may not be called to the mission field overseas, but I have a mission field right here in Dayton, Ohio. I see the lost every day, and I'm convicted that I cannot witness to more of them. I find myself bolder about asking people if they really know God.
I failed to ask a young man one time in Tennessee. I fed him his last meal but I didn't know it. He was drunk, high or both, and all I was worried about was him getting stopped by the police. That would have been immensely better for him. He drove off into a lake and drowned.
I had a chance to share the Gospel with him but instead gave him food and coffee. That changed my perspective and worldview.
God Bless You!
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- Food and Drink or the TRUTH of Salvation?
| Posted On: 05/22/08 08:13:56 AM | | Age 28, MN |
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is certainly something to chew on and is so contrary to the "build a relationship as the context for a conversation" sort of idea that is growing in popularity. Our one, let me say it again, our ONE priority should be to make sure that as many people as possible have the opportunity to know Christ and the power of His death and resurection. This is convicting to me as well.
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- FOLLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT
| Posted On: 05/23/08 12:45:41 PM | | Age 64, OH |
This same thing happened to me one day. The Lord told me to share and I said, "tomorrow on our motorcycle ride, I will". I lived next to this man and we had just met and made plans to ride the together the next day. I felt the Spirit was grieved but did nothing. The next day this man was killed riding his bike up to meet me. I remember his name to this day. The sadness from this will always haunt me. But other times the Lord has told me to wait and the time will come, and I did wait and it did come. The important thing I have learned is never follow a formula but follow the Holy Spirit. If you feel a grieving of the Holy Spirit PAY ATTENTION, for the grieving of the Holy Spirit is a very serious thing. Lou
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