Its not all just about the cross and repentance
| Posted On: 05/16/08 03:50:31 AM |
Age 24, ENGLAND |
Its not all about cross and repentance. It's also about resurrection and new life! and Christ's life in us that gives us the ability to live out full, exuberant, magnificant lives for God and be all that he designed us to be. He is coming back for a glorious, beautiful bride. So, I would say: be careful too that in trying not to conform to the 'cool', to the world, you don't end up conforming to a dull, boring, smothered, 'churchy' image instead. Be who you are and be wonderfully who you are!
Be in the world, though not of it- i.e. don't segregate yourselves. We are ambassadors of God to the world, so while we need to retain our integrity and representation of the one we represent, we also need to live in a way in which we can relate and communicate with those we live amoungst.
All by God, through God, for God- in His wisdom and strength face all things.
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- My friend from England
| Posted On: 05/19/08 01:41:18 PM | | Age 51, GA |
My friend from England, thanks for your time and thoughts. How much of a "full, exuberant, magnificant life" do you think Paul had while being beaten and in jail? And do you reckon that all of the martyrs who passed on the faith were "dull, boring, smothered, and 'churchy'".
Jesus said the world would hate you for His name sake. Does that sound like a tea party? Read the scriptures my friend. This is not the wonderfrul life promised. If you're trying to have your best life now, then you've missed the point of the gospel. The best life is the one that's coming. This life is the battlefield. So pick up your cross daily, crucify your flesh, and study to know what the true meaning of the cross and new life are. Watch and pray, and know that there will be false teachers, teaching the very thing that you have embraced.
Craig Gleason
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Jesus : from cool ( attractive) to renewed,restored , reborn
| Posted On: 05/13/08 03:18:43 PM |
Age 51, OR |
Cool is a tool, not an end in itself. Todays public school educated students who are technologically savvy have been birthed into a sight dominated environment. Sometimes the cool of the church is to meet the learning sentivity, visual style of current youth. Working with FCA sometimes requires cool to get student athletes to a meeting but God's purpose is to develop a strong relationship with each individual. God is not mocked. So, if the purpose of cool is to further your church and not to further the Kingdom of God, then an introspective look, a reevaluation of the purpose and goal is in order.
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You sound like a Pharisee, Mr. Gleason...
| Posted On: 05/13/08 11:41:38 AM |
Age 35, TX |
Mr. Gleason,
I think I can understand your position and will cede some points, but on balance, disagree. I think there are limits to the ‘secularization’, for lack of a better word, a church should undertake to attract and retain people but see a real value in the creativity of many churches today. As a former Catholic and now a member of a so-called “megachurch” here in Houston, I can tell you that I was skeptical of the approach myself. However, the production value and the “cool” factor is a hook to get people there. It helps make the MESSAGE of Christ be better received. Isn’t that what we all strive for? Ultimately, your article judges others for being innovative. You can see where the lack of innovation has absolutely killed church attendance within the major denominational ranks. I respect ritual and tradition, don’t get me wrong, but I see how spiritually fulfilling my church is and I am all about telling the world that my God is an all-inclusive God…of those with tattoos, young and old, so-called cool and uncool. We are IN the world and have to balance accordingly but the message is not OF this world. There is nothing wrong with marketing His message to the various hooks of your target audiences. And because of that innovation and inspired means of delivering God’s word, the church has grown so that specialty ministries can further help others carry their cross. But you can’t teach people that if you can’t get them through the door.
Our God is timeless! I’ll remind you that even Jesus delivered that message in parables appropriate to the time. And he tailored his message accordingly as well—from the Pharisees to prostitutes and low-lifes. And didn’t Jesus target the Pharisees for their “man-made” rules? That’s what your protestations sound like.
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- Pharisee Gleason
| Posted On: 05/14/08 07:46:24 AM | | Age 51, GA |
Thanks for taking the time to write. It looks like you missed the point. Your assumption that lack of innovation has killed church attendance is a slap in God's face, not mine. He doesn't need our clever marketing tools, he is God. You say there are limits to the "secularization"? Well, what are they? And how do you determine them? You also appear to be saying that a "bursting at the seams" church is right on track and proof that the gimmicks and hooks are spot on. I can only suggest that you do some study and prayer and see what God says about that. Read the scriptures. Many of the church members in the scripture spent a lot of their time doing things like, hiding, jail time, getting crucified and tortured. If you consider my article to be the persecution that is promised to believers then you don't understand the scriptures. When the church looks so much like the world it doesn't offend the world then it just might be worldy. This generation has been nurtured on self esteem, self promotion, and self fullfillment. Even the good that we do is often all about us. Missionary trips look like family vacations, check it off the "feel good" list. Just think about that for a minute.
And if you are saying that Jesus' use of parables is the same as gimmicks and cultural hooks, then all I can say is at 35 years old, I too thought many things were acceptable and correct. Wisdom is proven by her children. God bless and keep watching and praying. Craig G.
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- The truth on legalism!
| Posted On: 05/13/08 09:28:21 PM | | Age 50, AK |
Amazing how the worldly 'cool' in the churches now judge those who oppose them by labeling us -of all things-Pharisees (or worse hypocrites!) The plain truth on legalism and which of the old testament laws are binding or not is obvious -at least to those who wish to be led by the Spirit! First off you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater -just because some old T. rules (ie; pork consumption, new moons, animal sacrifices,etc.) are not required for forgiveness or salvation does NOT mean prohibitions on homosexuality, murder, theft, etc. are now OK does it!!! No, truthfully God is THE God of nature - and as such His will for your life is expressed in the NATURAL way He created you. No piercings,no tatooes,no purple & green hair, bizzare pagan-like deformations,or perversions on genitals, etc. are His will otherwise HE would have created you with such!
"Naked came I into the world, and naked I shall leave, blessed be the Lord" "Having food and raiment let us be content" "You cannot change one hair either white or black" All we have is the covering of our shame God gave to Adam after the fall. Since He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble, all this trying to be 'cool' is opposing Him! Cool in the church has now become elevated to god-like status; Rock-n-Roll Christianity equals salvation to them and those who oppose them will face their wrath!!! "For all they that will live godly in Christ Jesus SHALL suffer persecution" - the rest won't! And that's what they all want to avoid - being persecuted for the cross of Christ -NOT to reach the lost! - Nevertheless "If you are ashamed of Me, I will be ashamed of you" {People it's time to ignore the "Pied-Pipers of Hamlin" Who play their music and lure our children away from the true gospel) "Lest they suffer persecution for the cross" "Leave the blind leaders of the blind and I implore you to "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Finally if your 'brand' of Christianity is so much like the world that there is no difference, then there is nothing to really be saved from (except of course a Hell afterwards)No submission or surrender to the Will of God, just a few WWJD phrases now & then, T-shirts, CD's, etc. and it's good enough for those who "Have a FORM of godliness, but deny HIS power of a godly and pure heart -from the INSIDE out" instead of whited sepulcres. "A tree is known by it's fruit" and NOTHING else-call us all the names you want-will receive a "Well done" on that day!Amen, so be it - Even so come Lord Jesus!
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- Well Said!
| Posted On: 05/15/08 06:53:54 AM | | Age 51, GA |
Well said. Paul Washer has a 10 minute video called Ashamed Of The Gospel. Google it or see it on YouTube.com,he nails it. One other thing I noticed about these posts, notice the ages of each poster. The Thirty-somethings seem to be the age group who want it their way and the older crowd seems to understand that restraint is profitable. Interesting fact. God bless all and I hope out of love we can all continue to serve God with one purpose. Craig G.
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- Sure
| Posted On: 05/16/08 08:58:56 AM | | Age 34, FL |
Interestingly, what I see is that the older folks (as always) are only interested in making sure things stay the way they want them to be, but (also as always) they shroud their preference for their traditions in the cloak of God's declarations. Kind of like Mark Chapter 7, the old folks want to know why the young ones just won't wash their hands the way the old folks say they should. Sadly it is still a matter of the heart that needs to be addressed among all generations and all men, but we are so caught up in being critical that we just continue to witness to the world that our god is not Jehovah, but ourselves.
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- No hooks or gimmicks allowed
| Posted On: 05/13/08 08:13:07 PM | | Age 61, MO |
The apostle Paul was determined to preach nothing except Christ crucified. There were no gimmicks or hooks to the message. Marshall McLuan coined a phrase: "the medium is the message." It's not Biblical but it emphasizes the fact the things of the world can, but should not, influence the Gospel message. "Whosoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." (James 4:4b). You are misinformed about Jesus use of the parables: "And the disciples came, and said unto Him, why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." (Matthew 13:10-11). George Cancilla
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Thanks for telling it like it is!
| Posted On: 05/13/08 10:08:06 AM |
Age 47, MI |
Thank you Mr. Gleason for speaking the plain truth! I attended Ichthus back in the early '70's and even then I realized that many who claim to be Christians do not walk with Jesus in their lives. Today's "mega churches" claim to be reaching millions through their use of today's media and technology. But prosperity messages and feel-good "God is love" theology gives no foundation and no guidance to deal with today's world. Romans 12:1-2 has been my favorite scripture dealing with worldly viewpoints. We are to be IN the world but not OF the world. Youth groups worry more about being cool enough that the kids won't be ashamed to be identified as Christians...sigh. I hope that many others took the time to view the video of Paul Washer posted on your site - what a harsh yet wonderful message for all of us! I will share it with all of my Christian friends!!
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Mixed Review
| Posted On: 05/13/08 09:17:28 AM |
Age 38, TX |
I would completey agree with your article as to the nature of programs in the youth ministry today that are trying to allure kids by means of entertainment...what is missing in so many youth groups today is the gospel and cultivating in our youth a love for God and others, but I have to say I dont agree with your definition of "the world" as being what we wear or if ones fashion statement resembles or looks like that of the modern day sociey(as long as modesty is considered). Ones outward fashion should not be the determining factor as to whether they are "wordly" or not. No matter how we dress it is going to resemble some era in time where that fashion or hair style was the "cool or hip" outfit or style of that day...I believe that when the bible is talking about "the world" it was referring to sinful human mans total rebellion to God - self-sufficiency apart from Christ and the pride of life...complete opposite to a believers total dependence on Christ for our righteousness and a transormed life in Him. I cant see how that compares to "the world" meaning adhereing to the fashion statement of the day.
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100%
| Posted On: 05/13/08 08:50:31 AM |
Age 49, MO |
I agree with this article 100% The church
is in bad shape in this country, and the
world around us is going to hell in a hand
basket. I am praying daily for repentance
and revival!!!! Thank you for this article!
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Christ is cool
| Posted On: 05/13/08 08:05:00 AM |
Age 37, GA |
I disagree with you Mr. Gleason. I also came to the Lord in my late 20's, and it was at a Billy Graham crusade in Jacksonville, with Christian bands and speakers who were "cool". The church I was baptized in a few months later, Southside Baptist, also had a pastor who could relate and an atmosphere that was upbeat. They reached out to me in order to reach me, and it worked. I don't believe Christ has an issue with nose rings.
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- Being "cool" has never been found on the narrow path.
| Posted On: 05/13/08 01:19:23 PM | | Age 51, WA |
The perfect example of what you are talking about! Attracted to the "mimics of the world", blind and foolish, he becomes a critic rather than seeking the truth. Christ said the church of today would be "lukewarm"
it's worse yet, it's "cool."
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- Exactly
| Posted On: 05/14/08 08:20:31 AM | | Age 34, FL |
The man tells you his story of conversion and all you can do is judge it to be inadequate to your standards. Praise God that His standards of acceptance are so much lower than yours, otherwise none of us would be privileged to enter into His presence. Much like the Jews you cannot accept that those you view as unworthy (the Samaritans and Gentiles) have been opened up to the Gospel in ways you cannot accept(grafted onto the Vine if you will)! It's no wonder that the world scoffs at us; we are told to be known by our love for each other, but instead we only have love for our own cultural expectations and traditions.
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The Church of the Cool and Groovy
| Posted On: 05/13/08 07:37:41 AM |
Age 55, AZ |
I agree with you 100%. However, if the church really wants to get back to basics, why not get back to the true Sabbath, which is on the 7th day, not Sunday. Scripture is very clear on the day we are to keep holy. It is NOT Sunday. Sunday is the Day of the Sun, and is when the pagans worshiped their Sun god. It was the pagan, sun worshiping Constantine, who pretended to convert to Christianity, who mandated the changing of the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day. Even if you want to forget about this, we are also commanded to do no work on the sabbath, neither us, nor our families, nor our servants, nor our livestock or foreigners (visitors /guests) in our lands. When you go to a restaurant that waitress and cook, and busboy are your servants. They are serving you, so you are violating the commandment to keep the sabbath holy. The sabbath is supposed to be a day of rest and communion with Yahweh (His name is not God), not a time for fun and games, and doing our own thing.
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- LOVE AND FORGIVNESS MORE IMPORTANT THAN DAYS OF THE WEEK
| Posted On: 05/16/08 09:17:26 AM | | Age 64, OH |
The 1st meeting of the Christian church was in the Upper Room and was on the day Jesus rose form the dead which was on Easter and the 1st day of the week. You do not have to participate in this pagan worship for you have the freedom to call it the 1st day instead of Sunday. Do you meet during the week to worship Jesus. Do you meet on a Wednesday (also named after a pagan god) or some other day. It is right and proper even by the law to worship God on every day of the week. Nothing prevents any person from practicing the Sabbath on Saturday even though they worship on 1st day. But one thing we know, Paul has told us NOT to condemn those who take a different view of any issue that is controversial. If you want to worship on Saturday ( a day named after a pagan god also) you are free to do so and I do not condemn you for it. But your condemnation of others will not bring life but death. Jesus also tells us to forgive and love others as you would love yourself. Even if some worship on the "wrong" day in ignorance, don't you think you should love them and not judge them. What if they are correct and Jesus has chose 1st day as the day of worship because He rose from the dead on that day. If you want to follow the scriptures then why not do as it says in the issue of women. Paul clearly tells us that women are not to have positions of authority in the church and are NOT to teach men. Yet the 7th day church follows a women Ellen White does it not. Jesus preached many times for us to love our brother but I do not remember one time Jesus preached on following the sabbath, do you. Don't you think a person would be better off to worship on the wrong day but be humble and not prideful against others than to worship on the correct day and be prideful about it and condemn others that worshiped on the "wrong" day. Jesus says to judge by the fruit . It seems to me that the 7th day practice has made the people who practice it very prideful and condemning of others. I do not want to be any more prideful or condemning than I already find myself,so I keep my self from it for that reason. Lou
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- The Law
| Posted On: 05/13/08 06:32:22 PM | | Age 56, NE |
Better not disobey any of the other Old Testament laws either. Anything less is hypocrisy.
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- Enter His rest
| Posted On: 05/13/08 02:48:59 PM | | Age 60, UT |
I was saved in a 7th Day Adventist Church in 1974 and was a Saturday "sabbath-keeper" for about 4 or 5 years. Praise God, He showed me that true sabbath-keeping was not devoting one day to God (all days should be) but entering into the rest that comes with the realization and recognition of the completed work of Christ (Hebrews 3:7-end & 4:1-13). God showed me that the yearly feast days (sabbaths such as passover, pentacost, etc.) and the monthly sabbaths (the New Moon celebration) and the weekly Sabbaths (each 7th day) were but a shadow of the reality (rest) found in Christ. When the reality comes, the shadow passes away. He then showed me that a person can keep a particular day as soley devoted to God in a special way as long as it isn't used as a tool to judge another brother who doesn't not believe this (Romans 14:4-13). Thank you Father for using John Calvin's, "Institutes of Christian Religion" to show me the rest that is my heritage in Christ. All that was necessary for my salvation was accomplished in Christ about 2,000 years ago. 35 years ago I entered that rest and 4 years later I fully understood that I was a true sabbath-keeper because I had entered the rest that is found only in Christ. Brother, reference the scripture found in Colossians with the O.T. references that use the same wording as Colossians. I pray that you've entered the rest in Christ. If you have, then God has called you not only to personal rest but to peace with all those who have named the Name of Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior. God bless you.
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