Salvation
| Posted On: 05/06/08 11:43:43 AM |
Age 43, NC |
John 3:16 never saved anybody. The full gospel message of grace is found in the following verse.
1 Corinthinas 15 verses 1-4
1Cr 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
We don't obtain salvation by repeating a prayer, asking Jesus in your heart, praying the sinners prayer, dying to self or anything you have done Jesus did it all. Believe what he did for you. That's it. Stop using catch phrases and proclaim what scripture says. The apostle Paul alone gives you the gospel message for us in the age of grace. If you are a gentile, this is our gospel. It's not mearly that he died but unless Jesus was raised from the dead, we are still in our sins. Is John 3:16 biblical? Of course but that verse is incomplete. We have the words of the risen Savior written down by the apostle Paul but we want to go under law to find the body of Christ's promises? It makes no sense. Rick Warren is only one of millions of church goers that sit in the pews every day given a message that was preached to Israel and claiming it as the body of Christ. And we wonder why people are leaving church....
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Rick Warren - How to get to heaven
| Posted On: 05/06/08 10:45:10 AM |
Age 46, IA |
Having my understanding limited to your clips of Sean Hannity's show, I would say you have mischaracterized Rick Warren's statements. I'm no fan of Warren, but from what I heard, the answer to "how to get to heaven" by Warren was to choose to go through the right door (God's way) and not choose to go through the other door (Satan's way). This sounds like a works based salvation to me, not by grace through faith. But what you have emphasized is Warren's explanation of being a disciple (follower) of Christ, which I don't think is far off from the truth, as long as the individual is giving EVERYTHING they understand, dying to self, realizing that as a disciple, you may learn more about Christ and surrender more of your life in the future that you hadn't previously. That's different than salvation. (Unless you are a 100% "Lordship Salvation" proponent, that even John MacArthur is not.)
God bless. Keep up the good work on promoting a biblical worldview!
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- Not just works based
| Posted On: 05/06/08 04:52:49 PM | | Age 34, FL |
As bible believing Christians we should "have it out" for Rick Warren. His gospel is not just works based but also divisive (that is among believers) and steeped in prosperity teaching. I saw the interview on Hannity's America. His interests are not to help people understand that every sinner needs Jesus, the Savior, and so deny this world and follow Him. Warren made it clear that people either are not making it, just surviving, or fulfilling their purpose. (I wish I could remember the exact word Warren used.) Are there such steps in salvation? Warren's gospel is one which makes the person the author and perfector of his/her faith, not the Lord God Almighty. Sure we all come with different life circumstances into the light of Jesus, but His gospel is very simple: We are sinners, He is Lord, He died so we may live; and when we deny ourselves and live for Him, He will teach us within our circumstances what He requires of us which means we work out our salvation with fear and trembling, knowing we live under grace. Which translates into good deeds which glorify the Father (Matt 5:18). If we extend God's gift in any other way but the way of a child's understanding, we are sowing seeds which will wither in the sun or get chocked by the weeds. The most attractive feature of Warren's gospel, that our Christian purpose when executed properly can make the world a better place, is the downfall of the haughty church in America. Our religion has become our tower of babel. Our purpose is not to reach God. It is to bend our knee before the King of Kings.
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- Works Based?
| Posted On: 05/06/08 03:12:06 PM | | Age 46, AL |
Faith without works is dead. (Dead Faith)
Dead Faith will not get you to heaven.
A person with True Faith will have his Faith manifested thru good works. The two can not be separated.
The Book of James debunks the "Faith Alone" myth. Maybe that is why Martin Luther wanted it removed from the Bible.
One had better hope he has some Gold, Silver, and Precious Stones. I would hate to be the person that after his works are tested by fire, and he realizes he has none of the above....all he had was Wood, Hay, and Stubble....
1 Cor 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
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- "I'm No Fan Of Rick Warren, But..."
| Posted On: 05/07/08 09:33:29 AM | | Age 51, GA |
These words ("I'm no fan...") are a dead giveaway that, yes, you ARE a fan and defender of, not Rick Warren, but unscriptural lies. Why do Warrenies feel like they always have to "explain what he really meant"? They twist scripture in an effort to UNtwist scripture for their holy man. The Apostle Paul didn't have a damage control crew following him around explaining what he REALLY meant. Come on, the whole "works vs faith vs works" has been done to death. There's no confusion about or special insight needed to understand Gods simple order of the matter. If Warren is such a brilliant and enlightened man of God, and able to so elequantly speak and explain the mind of God, why can only some people "get it"? Rick Warren is a compromiser and you'll need to be the same to get in the rythm of his mumbo-jumbo, make-it-up-as-you-go voodoo. One more thing. Martin Luther was, amoung other things, an anti-semite Jew hater. We've spent a few hundred years explaining what "he really meant to say" too. Look in II Kings at what was always the result of breaking covenant with God. How much more severe will the payment be for breaking the covenant of the Blood of His Son that we claim we are covered by? This is deadly foolishness.
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Ok for me.
| Posted On: 05/06/08 10:35:05 AM |
Age 60, NEW ZEALAND |
I don't see too much wrong with Pastor Warren's line. Giving myself to Christ is Biblical in that it indicates an inability to save myself and I am putting my trust in Jesus Christ and what He offers. Growing in Christ is very Biblical too. The "understanding" bit is superfluous but not negative or diminishing as we can only yield to Christ what we know of ourselves or contrarily we cannot give what we don't know or understand. I have heard better explanations but this one is not worth your time unpacking or criticizing.
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Rick Warren
| Posted On: 05/06/08 10:30:30 AM |
Age 58, OK |
You know, when I was saved 35 years ago, I did not know to attend church every week. nor did I know to love my brother, tithe, leave father and mother, forsake the world, do this, do that, etc.... I was a sinner who heard the gospel John 3:16 for the first time. I knew nothing else. By faith I trusted that one scripture alone and was saved. Then I was baptized (first act of obedience, right?)Then after being discipled for a long time, I began to add to my faith, by faith.
I just happened on this sight and saw the commentary about Rick Warren. May I add, that if this is taken out of context I may need to be corrected and will ask you to set me straight. But if it is not taken out of context, then give it a rest. There is enough lostness out there. If one person gets saved as a result of his preaching the GOD BLESS THAT ONE.
Please for God's sake pray for doctrinal correctness yes, but also pray for the opportunity to say the right thing at the appointed time. Let's be in the business of building. Time is short.
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Video snippet twists the wording
| Posted On: 05/06/08 10:18:00 AM |
Age 35, MD |
Based on the video snippet provided on that web-posting by Chris Rosebrough...
Rick Warren said "what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ" not "how to get to heaven"
"Follower of Christ" is not synonymous with "Believer in Christ...a person who has placed their faith in Jesus and who is going to heaven."
At some point, a "follower" must make a decision.
He who frames the argument, usually wins.
Based on how Chris framed this argument, he didn't provide enough supporting evidence (i.e. video).
The video was edited with captions to direct me to think that way. Sean Hannity's words suggested the "going to heaven", not the short clip of what Warren actually said. Maybe Warren did say it elsewhere, but at least not in that video that was provided.
In a day and age where words (catch phrase snippets) are so easily used against leaders/preachers/politicians, it is ever more important that we listen to the entire context of the conversation. I didn't hear the entire conversation, so it is unfair to make a judgment based on what Chris edited with his own emphasis. Be careful on the words we twist, it usually invites others to twist your words.
(yes we must make spiritual judgments, the rebound effect is that I should be ready for spiritual judgments of my life/words; not a bad thing, just gotta be ready to take the heat back at our way.)
Doesn't mean we shouldn't hold people accountable for what they speak/convey, but if you are in that business of critically judging people's words, please do it accurately.
Thanks for the discussion point, though.
Tim
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Faith without works is dead
| Posted On: 05/06/08 09:59:12 AM |
Age 46, AL |
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin._______
Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ( A resoundig NO!)_______
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (Dead Faith is no real Faith)________ Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ___________Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.( Dead Faith is no real Faith)______
You can't work your way to Heaven, but you can surely not work yourself to Hell.
Satan has put this idea that all you need is belief in Jesus and then do nothing at all the rest of your life. To good to be true?
Understanding the context of John 3:16 is to understand the Bible in it's entirety.
The context is that a True Believer believes in Jesus as Lord and does all that has been commanded and directed. Even Jesus says those that say "Lord, Lord" will not make it to heaven because they have not done what he has commanded.
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God looks at the heart
| Posted On: 05/06/08 09:25:37 AM |
Age 35, MI |
Many people think they have God all figured out, when in fact they are doing exectly what Jesus condemned in his day. They know the scripture better than the next guy, they are God's special elect, and pity on everyone else. Have some humility and let God sort out the rest.
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- Pity?
| Posted On: 05/06/08 01:16:21 PM | | Age 40, CA |
Compassion is a more precise word to describe how the elect (people who don't deserve God's grace but deserve punishment) feel toward those who are not elect. We don't know why God elects some and not others -- we don't know why God chose us. Who are we to call God unfair for loving some and hating others, and for having compassion on some and not on others (Romans 9). There are many people who are more worthy of God's grace than most of the elect -- so then the elect pray to God saying, "Lord, you bestowed your grace on me and saved me by your mercy and not by any good deed I had done (Titus 3:4). Therefore, bestow your grace on those who do not want you, open their minds and hearts to understand your gospel (Acts 16:14 and 1 Cor 2), and give to them what You freely gave to me!" (1 Cor 2).
"LORD, I PRAY THAT YOU USE US, THE ELECT, THROUGH THE EMPOWERMENT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, TO SPREAD THE GOSPEL THROUGHOUT THE WORLD SO THAT THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE, MAY BELIEVE AND BE SAVED."
We don't know who the elect are. We just preach the Gospel and let God handle the rest.
Compassion not pity.
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- I disagrtee with you! ( this is a comment to another poster)
| Posted On: 05/06/08 11:57:15 AM | | Age 32, WA |
I am sorry, but I question whether you are an Emergent who doesn't bother to read or understand the bible, which clearly tells us what he need to do for spiritual purposes. Rick Warren does not present the complete and full gospel. He needs to be called out on that, not cuddled with comments such as yours. 150K people enter eternity each day, you should care about reaching them with the whole truth of the gospel. We all should. And if a pastor is not doing that, they need to be marked as a heretic. Go back and read Jude. False teachers will abound in the last days!
Blessings to you and thank you for your 2 cents though.
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I understand what he is saying
| Posted On: 05/06/08 08:50:48 AM |
Age 38, TX |
I don't think Rick Warren said anything wrong. He is talking about growing in Christ. When I was first saved I hardly knew anything about the Bible or God's Word. But I did what I knew to do and grew from there.
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Rick Warren
| Posted On: 05/06/08 07:12:06 AM |
Age 43, IN |
Hey guys, I`m no Rick Warren fan, but don`t you think you guys are just looking for an opportunity to beat him up? When he went to Syria, I was furious. The thing is, he has a platform. We can distance ourselves from him or we can hold him accountable and ask for an explanation. Have you tried to talk to him about his comments or do you prefer this platform to complain only. I think you`ve taken his comments out of context and you are using it as another opportunity to trash him.
If we continue to gossip over misunderstandings we have no witness to offer the world.
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- I disagree this is mere gossip
| Posted On: 05/06/08 12:02:18 PM | | Age 32, WA |
False teachers can not abound and be ignored! Do people not read their bibles any more? This is not 'gossip', this is looking at what he is teaching and what is lacking,( repentance, the blood atonement and trusting Jesus Christ) and marking the false teachers. People can become false converts when they don't have the truth. So shouldn't be call out the non-truth tellers so people can be informed!? That is what the bible says to do.... Then we use that as an apportunity to supply the full and glorious truth of the gospel! Blessings to you friend.
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Rick Warren
| Posted On: 05/06/08 06:48:33 AM |
Age 65, MS |
Rick said words to the effect that this is what it means to follow God. Then he outlined daily choices to follow the light God has given that person. I believe that God is a rewarded of them who seek him. Seeking to choose God's way in every decision you make is like a moment to moment prayer to seek God himself. He is a rewarder of those who seek him, the Bible says. God will bring those seekers to Him. Just because Rick did not use conventional modern day church language, I do not fault him for it. SR
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