Don't Believe In Evidence, Believe Humans Like Me
| Posted On: 04/15/08 10:53:13 AM |
Age 78, AR |
This is ridiculous. What you are saying is that your particular interpretation of the Bible must be the absolute truth, because you believe it. No amound of evidence will convince you because you won't recognize it as evidence. "Don't bother me with the facts.
I'm ignorant and I'm proud of it."
On the other hand, please read and comment on the book by Rev. Michael Dowd titled THANK GOD FOR EVOLUTION.
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- Don't believe in fairy tales.
| Posted On: 04/15/08 04:22:01 PM | | Age 51, TN |
There is more than sufficient evidence to toss evolution out as a theory. Not one solitary transistional form exists. There are handful that are claimed but not even one all evolutionists agree is transistional.
On the other hand the evidence for design is overwhelming.
Like Brother Comfort said, if they have the evidence believe it. Natural selection is a creationist theory and the opposite of what needs to happen to turn a frog into a prince.
Yes I would reject evolution even if it seemed logically true and fit the evidence. But it is not logical and the only evidence is the theory itself.
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- Excuse me, but...
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:16:58 PM | | Age 29, TX |
...aren't YOU advocating YOUR "interpretation" (or, as some would call it, complete rejection of the plain language of Scripture) as the only correct one? My goodness, apparently hypocrisy is only something OTHER people do.--Mrs. Pilgrim
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Ray, there is no comfort in your lying
| Posted On: 04/15/08 10:29:14 AM |
Age 52, MT |
Sorry Ray, but it's time you admit you don't follow the 10 commandments. You don't follow the God who gave them in Exodus 20; you don't even know her name. No one does. The name of God is not "God," even as your name is not Man. And the second commandment proves there are many Gods, not just one. But you have to pick the right one as your chief. But you call your god the Holy Trinity - a different deity completely. And please Ray, stop breaking the 10th commandment by getting me and others to covet all these books "Christian Worldview" is hawking. Instead, you phonies should do as Jesus commands and give all that you own to the poor and follow him. We both know you won't. Instead, you'll rummage for some verse to justify the treasure you have here on earth. Too bad. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
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- A MUCH OLDER LAW
| Posted On: 04/16/08 10:30:07 AM | | Age 64, OH |
If you want to follow the laws of the Bible then the older the law the more authority it has. Man" laws are different because man laws are not perfect and he has to change them often. So the later the law, the more authority. But God's law's are perfect and never change. So in God's laws the older the law the more authority. Here is a law that is much older than the 10 commandments,God spoke this in the garden to Eve: Genesis 3:3 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and HE WILL RULE OVER YOU." - Women have been rebelling against this law from God ever since. The more rebellion there is the worse off we are. Lou
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- Some crazy responses
| Posted On: 04/16/08 09:51:26 AM | | Age 37, TN |
The 2nd commandment says don't make any graven image. I think you mean the 1st commandment. And neither confirms multiple gods. Have you ever heard the saying, "don't make money your god"? many people do make money or success their god. However, that doesn't actually mean that money is a literal god. The desire for wealth and power is no different today than it was 4,000 years ago.
One writer says, "And however man came into being--evolution or by some special creation--"
no problem. But that is not the issue. As Ray said. IF it is TRUE, embrace it. Darwinism as it is preached is unprovable. that is a plain fact.
the bible is actually quite clear in that it tells you when it is being literal or poetic, or symbolic. There are no doctrines being formed or challenged based on the bible stating that Ceasar Augustus did a census of "all the world." i guess the author assumed that most people have common sense.
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- Open your ears that you may hear.
| Posted On: 04/15/08 05:26:31 PM | | Age 40, KS |
I had to write something here because I am picking up some contempt in the tone of this message. That is unfortunate. Perhaps I can offer some additional understanding. I have heard Ray Comfort speak and he has been a great mentor for me. I think what I will say here is reflective of what he would say, but I can't really speak for him. But I think what he would say is that you're missing the point. He is not encouraging people to follow the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments, or the Law of God (the only LIVING God) are refelctive of His character, and the Law serves to show us how imperfect we are. Ray, nor I, would ever claim to have kept all of the Law of God or the Ten Commandments. They are good Laws, but all of us have failed to live by them. You talk about doing what Jesus taught and giving everything we have to the poor and following him, but this is a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying. This, in fact, comes from the key story of the rich young ruler that Ray and Kirk Cameron use as their basis for The Way of the Master. Jesus knew this man's heart. The man was telling Jesus that he had kept the Ten Commandments since his youth. Knowing that he was rich, Jesus told him to give everything to the poor and follow him, but Jesus knew he wouldn't. He was showing the man that he wasn't following the very first of the Ten Commandments, not having any gods before God, Yahweh. We all have sinned and do sin. Jesus' ministry was mostly about showing how much we have sinned and how much we need a savior. As a Christian, my message is not for everyone to stop sinning, but to repent and yield to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To admit your sin to him, and give it to him. It is a message of love and forgiveness, not one of condemnation. I hope the ears of your heart will be opened that you may hear.
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- Are you so sure?
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:18:19 PM | | Age 29, TX |
Are you at all familiar with Christian doctrine, or are you just going off of what your Womyn's Studies professor told you?--Mrs. Pilgrim
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Amen!
| Posted On: 04/15/08 10:15:23 AM |
Age 24, IA |
Ray, you are absolutely, 100% right... when you ask an evolutionist for evidence, they first point you to the immense transitional fossil record (but where is it?), and then the vestigial organs (I rather like having my appendix, actually), and then beneficial mutations (sickle cell anemia, anyone?)... it's all a game hide and seek! We seek truth, and they hide behind their lies! Let's remember to pray continually for those who are deceived! May God's grace and mercy find them before it's too late!
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That Was Not A Thoughful Response...
| Posted On: 04/15/08 09:35:17 AM |
Age 45, FL |
I consider myself a fundamentalist. I take the Bible literally when it is clearly meant literally.
You have presumed that the creation story is meant to be taken as literally as the fact that, say, "a decree went out from Ceasar Augustus that all the world should be taxed."
I used to believe it just as you do. But it occurred to me that those millions of facts and thousands of scientists were not all in some great conspiracy to bring down Christianity, but were instead simply calling the shots as they saw them.
The creation story was the sort of language that was grasped and understood by ancient man. The truth was much more complicated, but they would not have been able to handle it. In fact, if the Lord tarries, we may find that OUR version is far too simplified.
The core truth is that God started it all. And however man came into being--evolution or by some special creation--God began a special relationship with mankind that culminated in the cross...and will end in a new heaven and a new earth.
Let's not ask thinking people to set aside millions of findings and act like they are all mistaken. The truth is, give a brilliant creationist and a brilliatn evolutionist the SAME set of questions, and the evolutionist will win every time. It's only when the creationist controls the debate, or is debating someone who really isn't in his league intellectually, that the creationist carries the day.
Yours,
Aaron Scott
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- GOD SAYS THE LAND PRODUCED THE ANIMALS
| Posted On: 04/17/08 10:30:14 AM | | Age 64, OH |
God says ALL men are liars and Only God is true. Many men say they believe the Bible but believe the traditions of men started by the pope and do not even bother to carefully read the Holy Scriptures while asking the Author what He is saying. Look at THE BOOK and see that God says; 11 Then God said, "LET THE LAND PRODUCE VEGETATION: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 THE LAND PRODUCED VEGETATION: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.-- After God created the great creatures of the sea, God also said; 24 And God said, "LET THE LAND PRODUCE LIVING CREATURES according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. - I was not there, only God was, so I do not know exactly how God did it, but I do know that what God says is true. So God created creatures in the sea and then the land produced the animals on the land,because that is what God says. Scott, men would rather believe men than seek God for answers. And when God says something different than what most believe they can not seem to see it because it is to their comfort not to see it. Don't be discouraged by those who call you a doubter, but seek God and live. Lou
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- Where have all the bones gone?
| Posted On: 04/16/08 11:35:02 AM | | Age 45, CA |
I am reading Ray's book, "How to Know God Exists", and am finding it to be very informative and easy to read.
If Ray makes this point in his book, then I haven't gotten to it, yet. But the Bible also states that we were formed from the dust of the earth. It was in the 20th century that science was able to prove that the minerals in the human body are the same minerals found in the dust of the earth. Consult the back of any multi-mineral bottle for more details.
I would also like to respond to the gentleman who, although he's a Christian, doesn't believe in Creation the way the Bible describes.
The fossil record proves that animals appeared all at once fully formed as we know them today. Then the fossil record also shows that they suddenly disappeared, almost as if there were some kind of a flood, or something.
The Bible speaks of it in simplistic terms because it's simplistic. We serve an awesome God!
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- Fundamentalist?
| Posted On: 04/16/08 12:12:02 AM | | Age 52, GA |
My dear sir, if you were a fundamentalist, you wouldn't wonder how man came into being. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:... So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Gen. 1:26-27 One thing that many have overlooked in this debate, is that the deceiver has been at work from the beginning. The old man, the dragon, the liar, the father of all lies, has been at it a long time. Are you too smart for the deceiver? Have all the scientists in the world outsmarted him? Do they now have it all figured out, and his tricks and lies have all been uncovered? Is your spiritual discernment such that, now you have complete clarity, and the Word of God is simply a byline to the real story figured out by us humans? If you look to our Lord's example, He only responded with scripture. Why did he do that? Was he not smart enough or man enough or Godly enough to deal with satan off the cuff? Be sure of what you now see, which is as through a glass darkly, according to scripture my brother... Thus I refer you to these verses - "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:3-9 If you'll recall, doubting the Word of God as suggested by the tempter, to Eve in the beginning, is what got us into this mess. That is, if you are fundamentally a Bible believer? Follow our Lord's example, have faith, and banish doubt. That is the way, He is the way! Porter +++
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- a fundamentalist what?
| Posted On: 04/15/08 06:52:04 PM | | Age 44, IL |
what kind of fundamentalist do you consider yourself?If you would answer an evolutionary fundamentalist,then I completely agree with you. The Bible,the ENTIRE bible,is the inerreant word of God. You cannot just pick and choose which things are to be taken literally or not.The theory of evolution is just that,a THEORY!I am appalled at some of your assertions regarding how you perceive the bible,most of them are quite frankly,well, ludicrous. The fact of the matter is that most scientists today would LOVE to see creationism disappear.To be replaced by something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
"The creation story was the sort of language that was grasped and understood by ancient man."
"The core truth is that God started it all. And however man came into being--evolution or by some special creation--God began a special relationship with mankind"
Umm, do you realize how non-sensical these statements are?God CREATED everything,there is no doubt about that. I would suggest a gut check when it comes to believing what is truth and what is not truth. You cannot mix and match when it comes to the word of God and sadly that is what you and some others who have posted here have done. I will be praying for you.
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- Yes it was thoughtful...
| Posted On: 04/15/08 05:12:31 PM | | Age 40, KS |
Aaron, I have been studying this issue from both sides for awhile now too. I completely disagree with you. When I have heard the scientists and evolutionists talk, I have expected them to have convincing arguments and evidence that would blow me away. But they have been very disappointing. Disappointing in the sense that Darsinian evolution (unguided, driven by chance) simply is not believable or supported by the fossile evidence. I would have thought that scientists would have more to hang their hats on than pure conjecture and just-so story telling, but they don't. It seems hard to believe that these very intellectual people would be so committed to something that hangs on such thin evidence--a "conspiracy" as you say. But it certainly seems to be exactly what it is. It is the underlying commitment to a naturalistic worldview tha keeps them from allowing important questions to be asked. And if you are in the field of science, you are forbidden from following the evidence where it leads, because the evidence leads to a designer--a caring, personal designer. I am not sure I agree with everything Ray says, but I think he's got it mostly right. And remember what Pascal said: a little science will lead you away from God, but a lot of science will lead you back.
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- A thoughtful response?
| Posted On: 04/15/08 04:32:10 PM | | Age 51, TN |
I appreciate you feel that the people who gave us evolution and millions of years were sweet , non biased men in white coats with thick glasses but that is not at all true. Evolution and millions of years has been a religion since the beginning of time. In Acts 17 the apostle Paul was debating evolutionists.
The men such as Hutton and Lyell that convinced the world the Bible was a pack of lies were not qualified in geology to make the assertions they did and they were on a mission to destroy Christianity. I would recommend you read the Great Turning Point by Dr. Terry Mortensen.
Science cannot recreate past events, only make interpretations of the evidence they find. We all have the same evidence.
There are many scientist, many of the worlds best, who interpret the evidence as consistent with Genesis. Not one word of the Bible has ever been proved untrue despite what you have been taught and there is not a single transistional form to prove evolution when there should be billions.
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- sorry but evolution is religion and creation is science.
| Posted On: 04/15/08 03:32:06 PM | | Age 53, MA |
Every believer who as taken the worlds opinion as to how things gan love to point to all the scientists as just incapable of being wrong. Well numbers do nt make something right.
If folks would look at the rsults of te RATE conference and the facts on thesupposed massive ages "proven" by radicarcon dating, the would be stunned to find the vast amount of guesswork iin coming to these vast ages.
The simple truth is that there is no proof for "macro evolution" and there is no proof tat speciation ever took a lzard and turned it to a bird.
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- Mr. Scott
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:21:40 PM | | Age 29, TX |
The key phrase in your rejection of the plain meaning of Scripture is "calling the shots as they saw them." Pardon me, but since when is the ever-edited "knowledge" of man more authoritative than God's revealed knowledge (which hasn't changed yet)? I think you're putting too much faith in people who pretty much have NO idea what they're talking about, but sure like to believe they know it better than those unenlightened primitives who lived only a hundred years ago.--Mrs. Pilgrim
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I'm shocked.
| Posted On: 04/15/08 07:32:26 AM |
Age 62, CANADA |
The article is good and I found it interesting and helpful. I am trying to witness to a man who believes and taught evolution all his career as a university professor.
What I am shocked at is this: "I know that we encouraged you to give your heart to Jesus when you were a little boy. We were wrong to do that. That is the recipe for a false conversion."
I sent it to my daughter and asked her opinion.
My daughter is 36, gave her heart to Jesus when she was 5, in our back yard, led by a Missionary Alliance church pastor's daughter who was 11(he was our landlord). Her witness to me as I read my astrology books began a work of the Holy Spirit in my heart and 2 years later I was saved. That was in 1979. My daughter is today in Medical School. You would not have found a more dedicated and strong Christian and one whose "blessed of God" life has been a witness to many.
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- Shocked ,or confused?
| Posted On: 04/15/08 04:42:01 PM | | Age 51, TN |
What Ray was saying is they should have not simply encouraged their child to accept Jesus but prepared him for the onslaught of secular humanism. Over 80% of all children from Christian homes lose their faith in the first year of college because they were not prepared , they had no answers.
My experiance is when I tell Christian parents this I get a response like " that only happens to other people who don't know how to raise their kids, or mine know they did not come from monkeys" .
That is what the secularist love to here, the trap has been set. If you don't take the time to learn the scientific arguments against evolution and teach them to your children you are feeding your children to wolves and I
would not want to have to face the fact that my children are going to hell due to my laziness or indifference, or ignorance as Michaels parents did.
Of course teach your children about Jesus but prepare them for the world . That was the message you missed.
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- Don't read that paragraph in isolation
| Posted On: 04/15/08 02:31:35 PM | | Age 47, VA |
Ray is not saying that it's not possible for a young child to be saved after having been given only a rudimentary teaching in the area of sin and repentance. Everybody would agree that there are people who God regenerates even though they have not been given full treatises on sin. He is certainly NOT saying that using a phrase somewhere along the line like "give your heart to Jesus" or bringing young children to faith is a mistake.
It would be really helpful, I think, to understand the overall idea behind "Way of the Master" evangelism. The idea, which he is only very briefly mentioning here, is that we are saved through an understanding (even if we can't articulate it, as a young child could not) of our sinfulness and our helplessness to save ourselves. It sounds to me like your daughter had that understanding, and if you do, "asking Jesus into your heart" is the culmination of it.
However, many thousands of young children are not given that understanding, and falsely pray to "ask Jesus" when they are not regenerated at all. THAT is what Ray was talking about.
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- On the other hand
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:25:35 PM | | Age 29, TX |
My husband gave his heart and life to Christ at 6. When he went to college, he took up with and then lived in sin with a non-Christian. He spent years not being involved with things Christian at all. Apparently, the whole "giving your heart to Christ" routine is not all that is necessary. Please don't be so persnickety.--Mrs. Pilgrim
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