Another look at Evolution and Creationist
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:49:28 PM |
Age 56, TX |
Although this was an excellent article and will surely give me a logical comeback on evolution.
However, we are arguing points to the same thing and that is evolution and creation is by the same god. There is proof of evolution. We are taller than are ancestors and we are smarter than our ancestors. So what mechanism is in charge of this ? Why werent we as smart then as now ?
Do I believe in evolving from apes, absolutely not. Is it possible that god tried several variations before he got what he wanted ? Much as an engineer would ? Certainly possible.
Just one more point, the Ice age was not that long ago but yet there are species in that time period that are extinct today, but look very familiar to modern day animals but not one fossil of a between species has been found. How did they die out ? Science cannot prove why all those species died ? so what happened.
The hand of god was at work again and what we have today is his last Masterpiece
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Love to read the atheist posts.
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:45:44 PM |
Age 41, ENGLAND |
So the name and address of the museum containing the fossils of species to species transitional forms is........LOL ;)
Oh! Now I understand why you are all so angry and need to resort to personal attacks.
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Ray Comfort Knows Nothing About Real Science - He Still has His Blinders On...
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:42:09 PM |
Age 34, TX |
I was a young-earth creationist all my life. I was raised in a conservative Christian home, studied A Beka curriculum through high school graduation, and was an evangelistic fanatic.
In fact, I once drove 3-4 hours to meet Ray Comfort and see him speak about 15 years ago. Ray knows me pretty well. I gave him the domain NeedGod.com, and used to operate several Christian/evangelism-related sites myself.
1-2 years ago, when I operated an evangelism forum site, I began interacting with argumentative atheists. I used the same young-earth creationist crap I had been taught for years, and had repeated myself. But this time, I finally allowed myself to be objective.
I was proven dead WRONG time and time again, and in the end, I nearly became an atheist.
Then I created two sites dealing with the topic:
www.CreationCrisis.com and www.OriginScience.com
with a very simple chart that shows how preposterous young-earth creationism really is.
Chart here: http://www.originscience.com/origin-views-comparison-chart.htm
The only ax I have to grind is a search for honest, objective TRUTH. Nothing more.
Ray should be very careful about telling people to embrace evolution if it's true, when he really doesn't mean it.
At this moment, multiple fields of science absolutely obliterate the literal interpretation of Genesis - in every way, shape and form imaginable.
And if you think I'm an atheist pretending to be a Christian, ask Ray Comfort if he knows me. Before he made an idiot of himself on Nightline with Kirk Cameron and the ill-informed atheist morons, I sent Ray and his staff multiple e-mails on this topic. The response I got was this: "We received your message loud and clear." Nothing more.
Ray is no more interested in objective science or objective truth than he's interested in evangelizing the moon. I believe Ray is a sincere, wonderful man with an incredible heart for God. He was one of my heroes.
But I believe he still has his blinders on, and that like all the remaining public faces of ultra-conservative Christianity, he refuses to look at objective reality for what it really says.
"God said it. I believe it. That settles it." does not hold water any more, when science can turn Genesis into mince meat in about five minutes... and when it's also turning Christian young people into disillusioned former Christians - by the thousands... year after year after year.
Mark Bradford
www.CreationCrisis.com
www.OriginScience.com
P.S. I have nothing to sell on these sites and do not solicit donations or seek monetary gain in any way from these sites. They are for informational purposes only.
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- THE CREATION REVEALS THE GLORY OF GOD
| Posted On: 04/17/08 11:02:56 AM | | Age 64, OH |
Dear Mark, I tend to believe the universe is very old, billions of years old. But I also believe every word of the Holy Scriptures are true as written. The Bible does not say the earth is young anywhere in the scriptures, but God calls Himself the Ancient of Days for a reason. The creation REVEALS the glory of God. So a young earth would not reveal God as the Ancient of Days. I do not think Genesis is about time at all. God defines what a "day" is. God called the "light" day. Genesis 1 shows us a old earth and not a earth that was created in 6 earth days but a earth that was created in six long days as far as time is concerned. Contact me at < lounewton1347@yahoo.com > if you would like to discuss this issue. Lou
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- knows nothing
| Posted On: 04/17/08 02:36:53 AM | | Age 52, GA |
My dear confused younger brother (Mark Bradford) that claims to be a believer in Christ. How do you know Jesus Christ? Do you remember He is/was the "Word made flesh"? Thus, we know Him as the Word, and through the Word - "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom. 10:17 You have made a rather offensive declarative statement about an elder brother's lack of knowledge. You claim to be a self-taught scientist, how do you defend such a statement - that brother Ray "knows nothing about science"? That's a pretty broad and all encompassing accusation don't you think? From all of your studies of brother Ray, delving deeply into the furthest recesses of his mind, you have determined he knows nothing about science? Putting that unfounded, unscientific assertion aside, and to get back to your claim as a believer in Christ. Do you believe Christ to be the resurrected son of God, or the result of mutated monkey love? Let's get some things straight son, before you go around rebuking an elder in the faith. First of all, the Bible says "lean not on your own understanding" you either believe in the Word of God (Jesus Christ), or you don't. The Bible says "we now see through a glass darkly", do you know what that means? It means we don't see the big picture, and we won't in this dispensation - during our time in this reality. I went to your website, and you have spent a lot of time trying to dismantle your faith or attacking it, essentially arguing for it and against it. Do you recall what the Bible says about being double minded? "A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways." James 1:8 If your faith is not grounded in the Word, how can you help spread the gospel? As a Christian you are supposed to be ready to share the hope that you have, not the confusion you have. Who is the author of confusion? Get on the right side of the equation son, arguing with the devil at his own game, is dangerous territory. Our Lord knew better than to do such a thing, and only responded to the deceiver with holy writ. It is written - "Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Psalm 119:105. And - " Thy word [is] true [from] the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments [endureth] for ever." Psalm 119:160 So settle it in your mind, come out of the confusion, by doing as scripture tells us - meditating on the Word. Just as St.Paul encouraged Timothy - "Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." 1Ti 4:15-16 That pretty much sums it up, so work on bolstering your faith, and don't worry about the details, as someone wisely surmised long ago, "the devil's in the details". Porter +++
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You're asking the wrong questions
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:41:17 PM |
Age 37, OH |
"Will you go to hell for understanding evolution?"
No, you go to hell for rebellion against God and His Word. Evolution is nothing more than a satanic attack on God's Word under the guise of legitimate science.
"Be curious, have the integrity to find the truth for yourself."
And where do we find truth - the Word of God or Stephen Jay Gould?
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Another look at Evolution and Creationist
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:41:16 PM |
Age 56, TX |
Although this was an excellent article and will surely give me a logical comeback on evolution.
However, we are arguing points to the same thing and that is evolution and creation is by the same god. There is proof of evolution. We are taller than are ancestors and we are smarter than our ancestors. So what mechanism is in charge of this ?
Do I believe in evolving from apes, absolutely not. Is it possible that god tried several variations before he got what he wanted ? Much as an engineer would ? Certainly possible.
Just one more point, the Ice age was not that long ago but yet there are species in that time period that are extinct today, but look very familiar to modern day animals but not one fossil of a between species has been found. How did they die out ? Science cannot prove why all those species did ? SO WHAT HAPPENED.
Again the hand of god was at work again and what we have today is his last MASTERPIECE>
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a couple of things. . .
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:00:19 PM |
Age 30, CA |
First, I would like to say that I was converted and made a decision to follow Christ at a very young age. Every step of the way, they made sure I understood exactly the specific Biblical requirements for salvation. If my childhood faith had not been nurtured along by discipleship training, it would not have grown into an adult faith.
Second, I the Bible says that LIKE BEGETS LIKE in response to 46, OH and 45, FL. When science reflects measurable, proveable phenomena (true facts) and is not made into a religion by dogmatically following a single THEORY, I believe the truth will support what the Bible says about creation. The fault lies in the interpretation of "facts" by "scientists."
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Responses
| Posted On: 04/15/08 12:44:33 PM |
Age 36, VA |
Excellent article, thank you!
I just wanted to respond to a couple of things brought up in the comments.
First of all, it was stated that the Bible tells us to sell all we own and give it to the poor. That's incorrect. Jesus said that to one man, not to his followers, because he knew that man's god was his riches.
If money is your god, you're better off without it. If your flesh and your own wisdom are you gods (and they have been for all of us), you need to be born into newness of life and, with the help of the Holy Spirit, crucify the flesh with its carnal passions and let your wisdom be transformed by God's.
Second, all I heard in this article was a challenge to demand evidence since the hypothesis of evolution is supposedly based upon facts. This is only intellectual honesty. I've heard fundamental creationists and evolutionists asked the same questions, and have heard the fundamentalists come out on top, even when the evolutionist or neither are in control of the conversation.
And it does make a huge difference. If we were created in God's image and he breathed into man the breath of life for the purpose of fellowshipping with him, our purpose and our relationship with God are quite different from what they would be if we just evolved from a bit of primordial slime and have tadpoles for great grandfathers.
Just my two cents.
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Be honest with yourself
| Posted On: 04/15/08 12:04:28 PM |
Age 21, VA |
Blind faith, conjecture, and wild imagination. What was that in reference to again?
If anybody is unsure about this article, notice that he uses fear at the very end to sway you, and is biased throughout. This is not the mark of a good teacher.
If you consider yourself an individual and accept that God granted you the right to explore the world he created with your own mind, research the subject by yourself, and you will discover the truth.
Will you go to hell for understanding evolution? Well... do you believe God will see to it that you burn for eternity for examining the core principles that govern the world He created, in all its beautiful complexity?
Be curious, have the integrity to find the truth for yourself. The world is too awesome to examine it with closed eyes.
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- JESUS IS THE CREATOR
| Posted On: 04/17/08 10:47:47 AM | | Age 64, OH |
You have brought up a very good point, that we should all search for truth. Certainly, no person will be saved by knowing the correct doctrine. But we must be careful here; two things are required to find truth. 1 - give up everything and search with all that you possess. 2 - Humble yourself before God and ask Him. But even once we find some true fact, it will not save us. It is only when we trust the Creator of all Truth to save us that we are saved. Lou
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- great post
| Posted On: 04/16/08 09:32:08 AM | | Age 31, CA |
I could not have said it better myself.
Just because a person has a degree in theology does not qualify them to disprove evolution or even qualify them comment on its overall truthfulness. It would be insanity suggest such a thing.
So many Christians complain when people take God's word out of context to prove contradiction or deny His existence. But then turn around and commit the same sin with science.
In my humble opnion they are the greater of the evils because they are hypocritical.
You can challange evolution or any scientific theory or hypothesis but to attack with vigor and use fear mongering only PROVES one self to be lacking in proper abilty or training in reasoning well.
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- I too say to search
| Posted On: 04/15/08 08:03:03 PM | | Age 60, PA |
I am 60 years old scientist,and have been researching the scientific issues surrounding evolution since 1976. I suppose in the last 32 years I have read about 30,000 pages of scientific journals, white papers, technical monographs, peer reviewed journals, etc. In all of that time, through all of that mountain of information, I have not found even the smallest hint that evolution is true. And that is not just in say biology, but in every spoke of the evolution wheel.
What I have come across is thousands of times where evolutionists, not being scientists, resort to what is called a "Just so story". A just so story is a figment of the imagination, a scenario dreamt up by a non-scientist to explain something without having to actually provide any physical evidence.
Darwin started out the genre when he hypothesized about how the giraffe got its long neck. Stretching for the upper leaves. Yep, that was the ticket. But it is not scientific evidence. It is just a story.
I find that evolutions invariably cite a series of "just so stories" and think that they are citing evidence. All they are doing is an exercise in imagination.
To say there is no evidence is an understatement. There is a total lack of evidence in biology, paleontology, geology, acheology, cosmology, and any other 'ology I may have missed. The lack of evidence is a universal thing.
As a scientist, I take offense that people such as them even try to use the name of science to try to holster their strange myth. Remember, in order for something to fall within the realm of science, it has to be observable, reproducable, and falsifiable. Evolution and all the spokes of the evolution wheel do not fall within those confines.
Creation, on the other hand is another question. The evidence indicates beyond a doubt that all that we see is the result of special creation. While creation can not be included in the realm of science for the same reasons, it can be verified by the physical evidence.
Both evolution and creationism are predictive in what we should see in the physical record. After 32 years of research, it is abundantly clear that ALL the physical evidence that we see is what creation would predict we should see. There is nothing in the physical evidence on the earth that would have been predicted by evolution. Therefore evolution is a bizarre myth, a cruel hoax, a mindless anti-knowledge.
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- Re: "Be Honest with yourself" (first comment)
| Posted On: 04/15/08 08:00:36 PM | | Age 72, ME |
You say "research the subject by yourself, and you will discover the truth".
Ummm, isn't that precisely what Mr. Comfort's article urges everyone to do?
Have you in your 21 years ever seriously studied the Creationists' scientific arguments? No, you have not. One weekend of doing so and you'd be a former evolutionist.
You can read at least two of the very best ones right online Start with Darwin's Enigma by Luther Sunderland and In the Beginning by Dr. Walt Brown
http://www.creationism.org/books/sunderland/DarwinsEnigma/
www.creationscience.com/
As some very wise person once said, "Be honest with yourself". :o)
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- be honest with yourself.
| Posted On: 04/15/08 05:47:28 PM | | Age 60, WA |
Depending on a person's heart(1Timothy 1:5-11 [NIV];Mathew 5:8[NIV];John 12:44-5[NIV])they may not go to hell for believing in evolution but it does contradict God's word and the evidence behind it is precarious at best. This may lead them away from God instead of too Him. You might want to check out the web sites http://www.arn.org/authors/behe.html and www.answersingenesis.com The list of creation scientist under the Answers tab (on the answersingenesis site), many well known in their fields such as Dr. Raymond V. Damadian,Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging, Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics,Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist and Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist, may be of interest to you. Many also discuss this topic of evolution on the links provided in the name list.
Hope you find it interesting. In Christ Jesus
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- Be Honest Period
| Posted On: 04/15/08 04:15:31 PM | | Age 51, TN |
Of course Mr. Comfort is biased, he is a Bible believing Christian, every one is biased, which bias it best?
Of course he used fear , he warns of hell as Christ did. He did not say you go to hell for rejecting Christ as Michael did. Not everyone who accepts evolution reject Christ but everyone who rejects Christ accepts evolution.
As far as you snide remark about going to hell for understanding evolution or exploring the world I suggest you learn the history of evolution and the Bible. The Bible encourages us to study nature and all the scientific laws are based on the belief in an orderly creator God. One does not have to believe in evolution to understand it, in fact the more one truly understands it the more impossible it is to accept it .
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- Truth is true where ever its found
| Posted On: 04/15/08 01:46:45 PM | | Age 47, MO |
Friend: You wrote: "If you consider yourself an individual and accept that God granted you the right to explore the world he created with your own mind, research the subject by yourself, and you will discover the truth." This is a good statement and I would encourage you to do the same. However, the problem with your POV and the religious POV is that they are both based on blind ignorance. The truth about our origins are found in Scripture and in proven scientific evidence, not in blind faith and unsubstantiated theories. When we both are honest with ourselves, we will find that the earth is a lot older than Christians want to believe and that micro-evolution is true. We will also find that there MUST be a CREATOR, and that macro-evolution is a leap of faith for those who can't stomach the thought of GOD. John
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species is not the same as kind
| Posted On: 04/15/08 11:49:08 AM |
Age 46, OH |
This article, overall, is excellent. However, there are statements that are technically incorrect because they imply there is no such thing as speciation. This is not an accurate representation of what biblical creationists believe (see http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/403). The term 'species' is a very man made and often plastic concept. Tigers and lions are different species, yet they can form hybrids indicating that they are descended from one created kind (i.e. the cat kind). So it is accurate to say that one kind of animal has never been seen to change into another, such as a cat into a dog or a rabbit. However, God designed life with sufficient adaptability to reproduce and fill the earth as he commanded in Genesis. That is why some species of rabbits can live in the arctic while others inhabit the desert.
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- RE:Species is not the same as kind
| Posted On: 04/16/08 10:25:16 AM | | Age 40, CA |
I thought what we author was implying through his use of Speciation was the supposed observation of one species becoming another species. While Darwin was on the Galapogas islands, the different finches he mistakenly categorized as different species because of their beak size.
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Beautifully said!
| Posted On: 04/15/08 11:40:06 AM |
Age 48, OK |
It really is so simple--either He created us or He didn't. Either we are responsible to Him or we aren't. Either He came and died and paid for my sins or He didn't. I belong completely to Him or I don't. May we glorify the true God of all creation by acknowledging Him as Creator, Redeemer, Savior, Sustainer.
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