Rick Warren’s Church is Teaching The Same Thing As Oprah?
| Posted On: 04/08/08 08:41:06 PM |
Age 45, MN |
I, too, have some deep concerns about Leonard Sweet's theology (e.g., the quote above sounds very "New Age") and Saddleback Church's invitation to him to speak there. I do not understand this invitation, but being an outsider to the situation, neither do I claim to have a complete understanding of the church's intentions.
However, to answer the question asked (or, more accurately, the statement implied) in the article's title, "Rick Warren’s Church is Teaching The Same Thing As Oprah?" the mere invitation of Leonard Sweet to speak at Saddleback Church does not, in and of itself, answer the question.
Rick Warren's church's Statement of Beliefs is posted for all the world to see at http://saddleback.com/flash/believe2.html
It affirms the biblical, Triune nature of God; man's creation in God's image; the sinful nature of humanity that separates us from God; a literal heaven and hell; Jesus' deity, sinlessness, atoning death on the cross, resurrection, ascension, and coming glorious return; salvation only by faith in Jesus Christ; God's grace that preserves the believer; the Holy Spirit's Deity and work in the world and in the life of the believer; and the Bible as God's inspired, authoritative Word. The statement is laced with scriptural support for each subject.
So, to accurately answer the question asked in the article's title, one would also need to ask: Does Oprah believe in the overtly biblical, and distinctly evangelical, doctrine professed by Rick Warren and Saddleback Church?
From what I've heard and read from Oprah, in comparison to Saddleback's doctrinal statement, she and Rick Warren are as close to one another in their belief systems as night is to day. One may disagree with some/all of Warren's methodology, including his broad association with religious leaders of many persuasions, but let us not be guilty of distorting his (or his church's) theology in an effort to demonize him for his methods we either dislike or do not understand.
Pushing this "guilt-by-association" line of reasoning...
If Oprah is New Age...
And if Leonard Sweet sounds New Age...
And if Leonard Sweet is going to speak at Rick Warren's church...
And if Lee Strobel is a ministry colleague of Rick Warren who says Warren is doctrinally sound...
Then, is Lee Strobel, author of 'The Case for Christ', 'The Case for Faith', 'The Case for the Real Jesus', and 'The Case for a Creator,' etc., NOT to be trusted, too?
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- Great Response
| Posted On: 04/13/08 03:43:22 PM | | Age 40, KS |
And from what I have heard of Rick Warren's teaching (I haven't heard it all, but some) he does teach Biblical truth. I am very concerned about this guilt by association mentality. And what of the purpose driven life? Every person senses that he has a purpose. Rick Warren's book starts out by saying "It's not about you." It is about glorifying God. That is our purpose. I suspect that we should be driven by such a purpose.
I don't agree with all of Rick Warren's methods and I have to question his apparently willful association with people who seem to teach things that are inconsistent with Truth. But I will not pass judgement on him from sound bites, as are in this article. And where he is wrong, our goal should be to restore him in a spirit of love, not one of bitterness and hatred.
I often wonder, how are we supposed to share the gospel with people with whom we will not associate. People judged Jesus for his associations as well. Those same people nailed him to a cross. I'm not defending everything Rick Warren does, but let's not be too quick to condemn.
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- By the same logic...
| Posted On: 04/09/08 12:05:42 AM | | Age 42, NM |
I understand your point about using guilt by association, and I had some similar thoughts. But a doctrinal statement and a message from the pulpit may be two different things. Just because Saddleback has a well crafted and perhaps biblical statement of beliefs, does not necessarily mean that Mr. Warren preaching and teaching and beliefs line up...using the same logic.
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- BILLY GRAHAM STARTED HIS MINISTRY THIS WAY TOO....
| Posted On: 05/11/08 01:23:18 AM | | Age 49, AL |
Just look at what has happened to Mr. Graham today. Has he gone senile? Cuckoo? Why did he associate himself with deceivers and advocates of Satan? Didn't he ever preach that there is only one way yo God and that is through the washing of man's sins with the Blood of Jesus? Doesn't Graham sound more "Catholic" than any other Baptist preacher we have known? Why do many other evangelicals refer to the works of Teresa of Kalkota; the pope John Paul's interfaith pursuits and the worship of Mary? Why should we refer to the works of Augustine of Hippo and Martin Luther when we know that they were not truly born again followers of Jesus Christ? Did not all of these individuals remained Roman Catholics in their hearts and souls when they died? Didn't Teresa of Kalkota deny even the existence of God and to say that this was just a manifestation of one's doubt is purely a farce and a very cheap excuse. I could excuse my son for being an agnostic but Teresa of Kalkota???? Nyet!!! So, Rick Warren?? The same argument applies for him. It all starts from a small herey and over time...., once such individuals (inclusing Joel Osteen, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, et al) near the end of their eartly lives..., they shall openly declare that Jesus Christ is NOT the only WAY to God. I rest my case. In Asia, the names of Bentley and Warren have become household names amongs both the evangelicals, baptist and anglicans. But these are definitely NOT my kind of pastors. These people are more keen on "showbiz" endeavors rather than promoting the Name of Christ.
Mike
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Say What?
| Posted On: 04/08/08 08:00:31 PM |
Age 47, CANADA |
I have only one thing to say about the quotes from Quantum Spirituality.
"Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience."
Ephesians 5:6
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Don't give up
| Posted On: 04/08/08 06:36:21 PM |
Age 59, FL |
Keep the faith and the Lord will give you the pastors crown for feeding the flock. I too, pastored small churches and tried to teach expositorially against the trend of the day. It is a struggle but we must be faithful and preach the Word!! Mark, Orlando Florida
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Warren free to do his thing in the SBC
| Posted On: 04/08/08 06:31:20 PM |
Age 59, FL |
Why oh why is there no voice of criticism in the Southern Baptist Convention of which Warren is affiliated? Is it because he draws the crowds and inflates their numbers? As a former Southern Baptist I can see the drift into the emerging church movement. The feel good messages,rock music worldly dress etc etc. Many good Bible believing Christians in these churches are being called divisive if they object and sadly, many just go along. A real crisis of leadership in the SBC. Only Al Mohler seems to stand strong doctrinally but I have not heard him object to Warren's shenanigans!
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Babies & Bathwater
| Posted On: 04/08/08 06:09:41 PM |
Age 60, AZ |
Likely what I have to say will not be popular given the hype here about Rick Warren and the Purpose-Driven perspective he introduced a few years ago.
I belong to a Bible believing, truth telling, Gospel giving, sin exposing, grace filled non-denominational Church (with decidedly Conservative Baptist doctrine and practices) that also put the 40 Days of Purpose out for our Church to study about five years ago. My husband, a nominal believer and ardent non-church-going guy, was stuck straight away with the pronouncement: "It's not about you". He has been attending Church, weekly home team bible studies (with curriculum by teaching gurus such as John MacArthur, Henry Blackaby and othrs), serving as a volunteer at church, and so much more. The Lord used the study, and even Rick Warren to teach him some stuff that, ultimately, brought great glory to the Lord.
While I may not agree with all that Rick Warren and/or Saddleback Church puts out there, I am not about to take up the gauntlet against him. Thus I take issue with the term "cult" used in conjunction with his teachings. It is hardly a "gospel according to Rick Warren" doctrine they espouse.
There was a day when the church-at-large said similar things about Bill Gaither.
Be blessed,
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- Re: Babies & Bathwater
| Posted On: 04/08/08 09:48:08 PM | | Age 71, TN |
I can see why you would be reluctant to say anything against The Purpose Driven perspective considering your husband's new interest and obvious growth. God can take any situation and use it to His glory but that doesn't mean He put His stamp of approval on anything that doesn't line up with scripture. Since you mention John McArthur as a teacher whom you obviously respect, I might suggest his book "FOOLS GOLD" that will shed some light on this subject.
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purpose driven
| Posted On: 04/08/08 04:02:26 PM |
Age 41, MI |
To me it sounds like these purpose driven churches are setting up the great falling away the bible talks about because there doctrine is not built on the rock, the Word of God but sand and what their itching ears want to hear.
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Seeker sensitive
| Posted On: 04/08/08 02:34:49 PM |
Age 61, MO |
We have used the term "seeker sensitive" to describe the churches that follow the purpose driven model of Rick Warren. This seeker sensitive concept has been creeping into traditional denominational churches for quite a few years. It is an apostate concept full of pragmatism, pleasure, and pride. Seeker sensitive churches often use many of satan's carnal tools to promote their overall socialist global agenda. They are seeker sensitive as opposed to God sensitive. They are purpose driven rather than Spirit led. They are marketing a gospel of gratification. They have focused their attention on a dying world, and have become susceptible to its power and influence, rather than focusing on the power of a Living God. "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?" (James 4:4). Not only is the U.S. financially bankrupt, but many of this nation's citizens are spiritually bankrupt as well. Slick "easy believing" church marketing programs have caused honest surrender to Jesus Christ to fade drastically. These progressive church programs compromise the Word of God in order to bring in more "customers." Self esteem is promoted over Christ esteem, and the message finds ready acceptance from many who seek approval from the world rather than from Jesus. George Cancilla
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Rick Warren’s Church is Teaching The Same Thing As Oprah?
| Posted On: 04/08/08 10:44:04 AM |
Age 28, TN |
I am so often amazed at how we can see people pouring themselves so deeply into schools of thought, such as post-modernism, when history shows that these movements are not ever-lasting. I hope that believers will find gratefulness that Jesus can speak as one from eternity past to eternity future and that his "school," though it be incessantly challenged by time-based movements, will never lose any of its beauty, value & truth. Thank you for sharing information such as what is shared in this article.
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And how about Brian McClaren at WillowCreek?
| Posted On: 04/08/08 07:28:43 AM |
Age 44, MN |
Nice to see those megachurches following the same theme and allowing those emergent church guys teach their flock!
Brian McLaren is main speaker at WillowCreek's Shift Conference. See
http://www.shiftexperience.com/ScheduleSessions.html
I just don't understand why you would turn over your pulpit to a false teacher like McLaren.
Titus 1:9 [for the overseer] "holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict."
Colossians 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."
1 Timothy 4:6 "In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following."
1 Timothy 4:16 "Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you."
1 Peter 2:1 "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."
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