Compassion anyone?
| Posted On: 04/04/08 04:01:00 AM |
Age 31, AUSTRALIA |
I understand some of what you're getting at here, and agree that pastors need to be preaching a Christ-centered message, but what I find shocking is your comment "churches are ignorant to the fact that including unbelievers into the fellowship causes serious health problems for the body."
If we aren't welcoming in unbelievers, the lost, and introducing them to Jesus Christ, our God and Saviour, then we have no purpose in being here. We might as well translate straight to Heaven right now. Unbelievers are not fat, they are not bacteria, they are the lost sheep that Christ gave His life for. Without love for the lost we're just another religious institution and become part of the problem, rather than the solution
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Consult your physician
| Posted On: 04/02/08 07:58:15 PM |
Age 49, MN |
"as with any training and fitness program always remember, 'no pain, no gain'". While true, it might be better to first consult your Physician!
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The Church in the Wilderness
| Posted On: 03/29/08 06:54:23 PM |
Age 58, NC |
My new book, The church in the Wilderness, addresses God's message to today's church. It should be in Christian bookstores in another month or so. This issue and many more are addressed in this call to the church to come out of the wilderness and be the body Jesus established us to be. "Arise, shine for the light has come..."
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Trimming the excess also tests your Pastor's motives
| Posted On: 03/29/08 03:10:08 PM |
Age 45, GA |
Great article! Did you ever think about the dualism that is created when a church grows in numbers and not souls? When you need more money for your building expansion plans to house the excess programs that creates pressure to bring more people through the doors. If your church becomes slaves to the lender, weeding out members of the body from the chaff will be very difficult to do. Here's some out of the box ideas that I've seen done: I know of two churches that share a building. While one congregation goes to Sunday school the other worships, and the next hour they switch. Maybe some of these mega churches should start sharing their building. Most definitely two mid-size churches or smaller could do this.Let's get creative. Isn't the Household of Faith church the one that doesn't believe in investing in a building, but rents an empty store front that helps to clean up an eyesore in the community. When they get too large for that space some of the membership that comes from outside the community voluntarily starts looking for a space nearer their homes and plants a church in an abandoned store front. The various men who preach at the locations gather weekly to create the sermon for the week that will be scripturally accurate and consistently presented to all the body. WOW! Just think of the leftover tithe that can be used for real service. Until you can set churches free from the money lenders it will be tough for a pastor or the elders to look at any reduction in numbers as a desired thing.
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Yes but...not quite
| Posted On: 03/29/08 08:46:30 AM |
Age 47, MO |
Ray: Great post timely, needed,, and informative. HOWEVER, I wish to jar your focus a wee bit. You wrote: "Now that the focus is on the Word of God and the entertainment lights have been dimmed, for those who are left it is now time to equip and train them...and focus on our main biblical objective as a church, which is to train believers." Not to take away from what you wrote but I think our MAIN focus as a church is to walk in Spirit and Truth. We have to focus on the completely internal relationship with Christ in Truth to hear and obey the Spirit before we can do the externals. We tend to spend to much time cleaning up our lives, doing good deeds, and ministry, that we forget the real need to hear God and follow HIS way, truth and life. Thus we have Christians that don't really know God but our only able to function in the support group and following others. John
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- I agree
| Posted On: 03/29/08 03:09:35 PM | | Age 35, IL |
I assume believers are walking in spirit and truth already. I don't think believers can get any more intimate with God then studying his Word and praying. If your not walking in spirit and truth I wouldn't say you were a believer. I think we are on the same page here.
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Right on!
| Posted On: 03/28/08 01:50:54 PM |
Age 41, WI |
Good piece and excellent point. While the actual physical obesity of Christians should be of concern, the spiritual state of torpor and fatness is of greater concern. We really are the Laodicean church in so many ways. Thanks for speaking out.
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Wow, I thought this was about overweight church members.
| Posted On: 03/28/08 12:04:59 PM |
Age 24, NJ |
I seriously thought this was going to be about people who are obese, gluttonous etc. But I suppose that Hebrews 12:1 might apply to this. Very interesting. There was once a house church in Russia that was meeting. Suddenly two Russian guards busted in and said If you're not ready to die for your faith, get out of here. After the tares left, the Russian guards set down their guns, and took out their bibles. They said We're believers, but we wanted to make sure we were worshipping with other true believers. They wanted to separate the wolves from the sheep, the sheep from the goats, the true believers from the false converts and hypocrites.
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Not overweight..big and healthy
| Posted On: 03/28/08 11:25:14 AM |
Age 50, WI |
I absolutly agree that churchs not serving good spiritual food is a tremendous problem. What I disagree with is that a large growing church that has contemporary music is automatically not spiritual. Individuals coming to my church may very well be drawn there initially by the great music or large modern facilities. But when they come in the door, the are greeted by a group of people who are truly mission minded and whose goal is to change their lives with the SAVING news of the cross of Christ. They hear preaching that is sound in doctrine...not what "itchy ears" want to hear. They see a congregation dedicated to being fishers of men, not aquarium keepers...who are sending missionaries oversees from our own congregation, including our youth 5 or 6 times a year. Who are supporting inner-city ministries AND starting our own this spring. We are a congregation of sinners...who know that's what we are...who know only God and save us and who respond to our community out of gratitude for what God has done for us. So please...stop judging us based on our music or the fact that we are growing...you can grow by preaching Christ crucified...The EARLY church certainly did, praise God...or we all wouldn't be here.
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- about the music
| Posted On: 03/29/08 12:53:07 AM | | Age 19, LA |
I don't think that he means that the lights and music are unspiritual, but, rather, if you take those away for a bit, then those who are in it for the entertainment will likely leave. Those who are following their leader as he follows Christ and does what God says, and not what they feel "led" to do by their fellings, will likely stay and not mind praising w/ a loud voice. I think that the author intends it to be more of a tester or weeder-outer, so to speak. Doing things like that is often an effective way of seeing what's in a disciple's heart. correct me if i'm wrong.
Michael
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- HMMMM
| Posted On: 03/28/08 02:55:19 PM | | Age 35, IL |
Nobody said that a church with a good worship team is bad....It is the issue of people coming to church never being convicted to repent for their sin. They are being attracted by programs and kept by a luke warm gospel. Church has become the rich mans form of evangelism. Just bring them to church and pay someone else to do our job.
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Clear as a church bell
| Posted On: 03/28/08 11:23:10 AM |
Age 51, IA |
WOW! That is the clearest description of the American church as I have heard in some time, and, a powerful word picture of spiritual discipline. Like the title says, "clear as a church bell." I wonder how many American church-goers even know what a church bell sounds like. This one in is a definite "forward" to friends and family.
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Excess weight that damages the body
| Posted On: 03/28/08 10:25:03 AM |
Age 55, TN |
We did this in our church, which was not even a big church. We started a hour prayer time on Thursday evenings, a verse-by-verse Bible study on Tuesday evenings, a teen group that focused mainly on the Sunday School and worship services. The teens and children attended prayer groups with the adults.
"Outings" for the youth were for the young people that were attending the church services. We included the children and teens praying with the adults, girls with ladies and boys with the men. Our church went down in size for a while, but the growth we began to see was in spiritual growth among the body and healthy family relationships within the body. This included the children and teens becoming a vital part of the "adult church" when they realized that the adults loved them and were praying for their needs. Our church did begin to grown numerically, but the majority of the people who attended were truly interested in learning God's Word, and became truly interested in the teens and children of the church.
Our private motto became "better ten that want to study God's Word and grow and reach the world than fifty that want to play and be entertained." One of the most exciting things that happened was seeing children and teens learning to pray with the adults, giving prayer requests and learning that God does answer prayer.
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