Informative article
| Posted On: 02/11/08 02:18:50 PM |
Age 39, GA |
Very interesting. Perhaps Focus on the Family should change their name to "Focus on the Money." ;)
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Who says either one?
| Posted On: 02/08/08 07:25:53 PM |
Age 59, TX |
Who says either category has an answer? I don't think anyone fufills these categories.
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- Posting difficulties
| Posted On: 02/09/08 06:44:57 AM | | Age 58, MA |
I tried to tack responses onto individual posts, but, somehow, no go.
So we'll try things this way.
To Age 20, in MN, who wanted to know what I was hinting at:
You tried to change the topic.
I asked three questions.
How long has the GOP been abusing American Christians?
What was the pivotal beginning event in that
abuse?
Who should be on the list of those who abused
American Christians to gain political power?
If you saw something in those questions that also began to give you glimmers of other ideas, so much the better, conversations can have that effect.
Now, to 59, in TX:
Two posts, with that.
I can't say for sure, but I'm going to treat things as though they're both from the same person.
No, I'm not a Christian.
I'm here because I was invited.
Is being a Christian a requirement for posting in a political thread?
For that matter, since I was invited here to
examine what was being talked about, and then invited to post, is it a requirement for posting here at all?
I haven't been at all disrespectful, not to anyone, not in any way.
That's one post.
As for the other: are we to take it that you
think that there have been no Christian Presidents in your lifetime, and no viable
Christian Presidential candidates in this election cycle either?
We're of the same age range, for both of us, the first Presidential election we could vote in was 1972.
That's nine completed Presidential elections
since the two of us became eligible to vote, and, seemingly, in your view, no Christian Presidents during that time.
Was it that you didn't vote in any of those elections, or was it that the candidates you voted for didn't win election, or was it that, in the cases where you voted, and the candidate you voted for won, that the candidate's lack of Christianity wasn't a significant factor in your decision?
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- Not really...
| Posted On: 02/09/08 11:02:45 AM | | Age 20, MN |
You asked the question to someone else, not me (unless I misunderstood that it was a general question), hence why I did not answer. Anyway, you still did not answer my question.
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- Maybe not
| Posted On: 02/11/08 06:13:56 PM | | Age 58, MA |
But then, you haven't answered mine, have you?
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- OK, nevermind...
| Posted On: 02/11/08 02:34:58 PM | | Age 20, MN |
your posts finally did pop up, thus answering my question. However, I am curious by your definition of what a better Republican or Democrat would look like. Have a great day! :)
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- Something along these lines
| Posted On: 02/12/08 03:35:11 PM | | Age 58, MA |
Very abbreviated, FDR and Ike, updated.
A newer New Deal, and the awareness of the dangers inherent with the military-industrial-Congressional complex.
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- Miscommunique...
| Posted On: 02/13/08 10:11:23 AM | | Age 20, MN |
Sorry, I may have been not clear on not deciding to continue the conversation that may easily turn into a debate (since we would disagree on what a "good GOP" or a "good Dem" would be). The reason is because I really don't have the time, nor would I think it be really worth it. Anyway, you have a great day! :)
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- Ah. :)
| Posted On: 02/13/08 09:11:01 AM | | Age 20, MN |
Then I forsee that you and I would probably disagree on this being a good thing (on the whole, not in parts necessarily). Thus, I think we can end discussion between us. Have a great day!
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Why put so much value in a psychologist anyway?
| Posted On: 02/08/08 01:12:51 PM |
Age 64, OR |
Since when is a psychologist validated by the Bible? It is NOT an acceptable science and has been debunked many times over as pseudo-science and treatment by psychologists have caused more harm than good in patients. Deception comes in many forms.
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Agent X
| Posted On: 02/08/08 10:59:34 AM |
Age 54, VA |
Some of you have missed the point about the story of how Romney gave money to all kinds of conservaive Chritan groups. It's not that he gave this money -- we all expected that -- its that this money compromised these groups. Many of these very same groups released false info about Romney or at the very least went silent about his ultra liberal record.
Even when Romney told CNN he favors gay rights last week, not one major Christian leader said a word. This is not good for us as a movement as the grass roots relies on these groups for accurate information about the candidates. We should all be praising this website for having the guts to expose leaders who have hidden agendas. We need new leaders but first we need to expose corrupt existing leaders.
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Christian?
| Posted On: 02/08/08 07:53:27 AM |
Age 47, MN |
"The most Christian President in living memory? Jimmy Carter. The most Christian candidate still viable in the 2008 Presidential race? Barack Hussein Obama."
You obviously have an odd definition of Christian.
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- Your alternatives?
| Posted On: 02/08/08 02:03:16 PM | | Age 58, MA |
For the two stated categories, your alternative suggestions would be...?
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Belonging to God
| Posted On: 02/07/08 05:26:11 PM |
Age 43, CHINA |
It is a known fact that everything belongs to God and in the Bible, there are records of how pagan's wealth was used for His glory. In fact, the Nehemiah got his support from a pagan King.
I believe it is ok to get donation from other people of other religious beliefs because the reason why they give is because they trusted in your work. However, guidelines must be set. For example, you will not promote their worldview or value.
Face the fact, too many churches have strayed from becoming a Light and Salt to the nations, they are only interested in building their church building and setup their own little kingdom they call church when in fact these are just membership clubs with membership facilities and benefits.
For me it is very simple....any church that is not involved in reaching the nations AND making disciples preaching UNITY and WORLD MISSION, they are not the church of Jesus Christ! Anyone can professed to be a believer or the church, but only those that does the Will of God is of God (Will of God - Disciple the Nations)
This makes Christian Faith much easier!
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- Belonging
| Posted On: 02/08/08 11:04:39 AM | | Age 58, MA |
That everything belongs to God is nothing close to a "known fact".
That it is, for some, a fiercely and deeply held personal belief, is a fact.
But the fact of the belief in no way makes the belief itself a fact.
That the most recent dawn was in the East is a fact.
That unsupported weight falls down is a fact.
Be happy in your personal belief, but do not claim that simply because it is your personal belief it also rises to anything of the status of fact.
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- CAN GOD BE KNOWN AS A FACT
| Posted On: 02/09/08 11:16:08 PM | | Age 64, OH |
you are correct there is a difference between belief and reality. But just because you do not know something as fact does not mean that someone else can not know it as fact. I know The Lord Jesus Christ personally and he has shown me many things to be fact. If there God is a fact then he is certainly capable of proving ANY reality that he pleases to show someone. It is arrogant to think because you do not know God that someone else can not know God with a certainty. Lou
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- How reasonable is reason?
| Posted On: 02/09/08 11:02:23 AM | | Age 47, MO |
Your response is interesting. Donald Rumsfeld brilliantly said: There are known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns." How true. Yet, because we know something we know, or know what is not known, or don't even know what is unknown, doesn't distract from the truth that they exist. What I'm saying is the fact that unknowns exist is proof that they are. Agreed? There are many things we know we don't know or don't even know we don't know yet we rely on our faith to coexist daily. Take for instance gravity, the sun rising, morality, decision making, fresh air. You said the dawn is from the east, really? Is our planet situated N,S,E,W in our universe or is this a man made idea to try to explain the unknown? Many of these things you accept as truth are barely understood or not at all, yet we rely on them and our interaction with them constantly. You think reason is enough to coexist in our world? That's unreasonable because your known knowns are miniscule compared with your faith in what is not known. Consider your faith in the material world (we're not even talking about the Spiritual yet) and get back with me about how reasonable it is that you even exist at all. John
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- John-Directionless
| Posted On: 02/12/08 04:55:14 PM | | Age 58, MA |
John,
It's going to be tough to converse if we can't agree on the nomenclature for the four cardinal points of the compass, isn't it?
Good of you to cite Rumsfeld, and the limits of his thought processes.
If we're going to indulge in completely unrestricted flights of fancy, that can be fun, but "What color is your unicorn?" doesn't get us much past a second grader's coloring book, does it?
Ever see the movie "Stand By Me", four twelve
year old boys, in the early 60s, taking a hike on the last weekend before they enter junior high?
Along the way, one of them asks the buddy he's walking next to, "Who do you think is stronger, Superman, or Mighty Mouse?".
His buddy's reply is that of course Superman is stronger, since Mighty Mouse is just a cartoon.
Gravity is a matter of faith?
The term may be our language's consensus, the phenomenom may be, technically, a theory, and, if we're going to quibble about the terms for directions, we'll be bumping into "up" and "down", but do you want to test things by placing yourself fifty or so feet beneath an suddenly unsupported Buick?
I think that either of us can make that decision, and that we can do so without invoking any divinites.
Air?
Cosby answered that.
There's air to blow up basketballs, and footballs, and volleyballs,...
Okay, a silliness, but the facts of the chemical makeup of this planet's atmosphere in no way necessitate human existence, or any other particular life form, ask your local brontosaurus.
The sun doesn't actually "rise", as you know, that's an illusion, a bit of ancient poetry, servicible enough in its ways, but not the reality that what we're really experiencing is the planet's turning on its axis.
That's why I used the word dawn, and not sunrise.
The fact that I or you do exist is what makes it beyond merely the reasonable, and all the way into our shared actual reality, and that's the same for the mosquito and the cockroach.
Unless it's really just me, and only my imagining you, but that avenue doesn't take us very far, does it?
Limits to our knowledge?
Of course, and there always will be, even as, or, more accurately, if, we manage to endure long enough to also learn more.
But that limitation doesn't, of itself, in any way make either necessary or even valid the existence of some superior entity.
Morals?
Well, let's see.
I don't, for instance, shoplift, and I do, for instance, hold doors if I see there's someone else who's about to go through.
Neither of those personally chosen and developed habits have the slightest to do with whether or not there's some measuring entity, let alone divinity, observing my behavior.
Greg.
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- Why are you here?
| Posted On: 02/08/08 07:30:41 PM | | Age 59, TX |
What are you doing on this board? You are clearly not a Christian, so why does this interest you?
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It comes to this
| Posted On: 02/07/08 03:52:46 PM |
Age 58, MA |
A day late, a buck short, and typical fundie extremism.
All those wedgies are coming back to rest within the shorts that spawned them.
Mitt's out, McCain's in, and no one needs Huckabee for anything any more, not to split primary votes and delegates, not as running mate, not as anything.
It's going to be fun to watch as each leg of the Reagan coalition chews the others off, and, simultaneously, tries to claim it's the
one true leg, then tries to rush back together, all worn down to toothpicks.
The next Republican debate should be interesting.
No more, "I'm on your side, against the guy in the middle.", now it's down to "You're the despicable monstrosity I need to completely eliminate.".
Here's a couple of ironies for you.
The most Christian President in living memory?
Jimmy Carter.
The most Christian candidate still viable in the 2008 Presidential race?
Barack Hussein Obama.
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Can't get there yet
| Posted On: 02/07/08 02:17:54 PM |
Age 48, OK |
Unless he also gave money to both sides of the aisle, I can't agree that he was buying votes. Your investigation should do a comparison of where else his money went. If Romney's the most conservative based on surveys and past actions, then I would expect pro-family groups to lean that direction. Doesn't mean they are having a love fest with him or that they endorse his faith.
By now, particularly with the past Harriet Miers nomination and its eager support by some of these same organizations, we know that a political game can be played by the well-intentioned. Pretty hard to find an organization that isn't influenced by power or money, that's why we've got to do a lot of our own research. Can't just trust one person/organization.
As far as Romney's Mormonism goes, who really cares when the political choices are all unbelievers with varying character issues? We vote all the time for non-Christians; we don't choose our doctors based upon their faith, but on their abilities. The same is applicable here. A Mormon President does not have the power to make himself "King" any more than a Catholic one would or any other Heathen.
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Now a non-issue
| Posted On: 02/07/08 02:14:08 PM |
Age 50, TN |
I am from the La La Land Commonwealth of Massachusetts and was living there when Mitt Romney was governor. All that being said, I heard on the radio just today that he is dropping out of the race anyway.
He WAS a better choice than John McCain despite his Mormon beliefs.
Unfortunately, the BEST candidate---Alan Keyes---has gotten very little attention and it not even in the running.
My hope is that Mike Huckabee gets the nomination.
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- I thought I was alone!!!
| Posted On: 02/07/08 02:48:04 PM | | Age 36, PA |
Some would say I'm wasting my vote because I don't go with the herd and I vote my conscience. That being said, I will continue to vote for Alan Keyes as long as he wants to run.
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- Your so right
| Posted On: 02/07/08 02:27:26 PM | | Age 68, CO |
Your so right about Alan Keyes. Too bad he doesnt have more support.
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- The fact is ...
| Posted On: 02/08/08 01:10:04 PM | | Age 64, OR |
As a former member and conservative activist of the Republican Party, the GOP refuses to support a true Christian conservative for any political office. As a matter of fact one Republican leader was overheard saying, "I'll be glad when those Christian conservatives leave the GOP because we need more liberals involved."
That in itself tells you what has happened to the Republican Party. Mike Huckabee may be a professed Christian but saying it doesn't make him "authentic" Biblically based. There are many apostate Christians as Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush has proved by their actions and deeds.
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- It's good
| Posted On: 02/08/08 02:35:09 PM | | Age 58, MA |
It's good that you're someone who has come to see that the GOP has been using, abusing, and misusing you.
Do you have an estimate of how long that's been going on?
Do you have a pivotal moment when you think that began?
Do you have a list of names of those you think did that to you?
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- Out of curiousity...
| Posted On: 02/08/08 08:57:56 PM | | Age 20, MN |
what exactly are you trying to hint at? Yeah, the GOP has got problems? Exactly what are you suggesting should be done?
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- For the GOP?
| Posted On: 02/09/08 05:16:06 PM | | Age 58, MA |
Find better Republicans.
I'm for that, because that makes for better Democrats.
Right now, and for decades, the national GOP
leadership has gone towards a united Party at the cost of a divided nation.
And the national Democratic leadership has tried to follow them right down that same tube, by trying to mimic the GOP's positions.
None of that has been at all to any benefit for the average American.
The center got shifted, and it got shifted, eventually, drastically, even if it was also done gradually, by and for those at the very top, but it hasn't done the rest of us any good.
Edwards had a good point, in that the division isn't as much on the horizontal, on the left/right, as it is on the vertical, the top/bottom.
That's been the result, and the result has been in no way accidental, but the wedges that were used to accomplish that were driven into the horizontal, and they were deliberately done so by the modern national GOP leadership, with the modern national Democratic leadership scrambling to accomodate.
Yup, better Republicans, with better reasons to be Republicans.
Of course it'd work the other way too, better Democrats, with better reasons to be Democrats, would help foster better Republicans.
I'm working on that too.
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- What genuine conservative Christian voters should do...
| Posted On: 02/09/08 01:29:37 PM | | Age 64, OR |
Over the past 20+ years authentic conservative Christians have been deceived and duped by those protituting themselves just to get our vote. So, isn't the time RIGHT for authentic Christians band together with spiritual solidarity and not compromise our beliefs and values? Consider this...all authentic Christians create a bona fide third party political front to force the Democrats and Republicans to be more honest, patriotic, and spiritual by returning to the values of our nation's founding fathers. As long as real conservitives and Christians continue supporting left-of-center Republicans and Democrates you are compromising your personal beliefs and values...that's a fact@
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- Depends
| Posted On: 02/11/08 06:23:25 PM | | Age 58, MA |
Do you mean founding fathers like Jefferson, Franklin, and Madison, or were you perhaps thinking of some country other than the United States?
If it's the first, read what those gentlemen actually wrote, especially in regards to the dangers of religions having influence in America's political structures.
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- 1ST CONGRESS CALLED FOR CHRISTIAN CHURCH SERVICE
| Posted On: 02/14/08 12:30:52 AM | | Age 64, OH |
At the inauguration of Washington the congress had passed an act to have a Christian church service after the inauguration as an act of the government and almost all attended it. the service was an official service called by for the government of the US. Lou
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Conspiracy Theories??
| Posted On: 02/07/08 01:56:12 PM |
Age 62, ME |
Wow! Imagine a conservative politician supporting conservative programs. All of these different programs of thus conspired with the "Mormons" in an unholy alliance? Yikes, you all scare me almost as much as the Democrats. In fact, demonizing Mitt Romney for trying to buy the election is to get it all wrong. They all spend huge amounts of money to win. That's the name of the game unfortunately. As an evangelical Christian, I have no problem supporting a candidate with Judeo-Christian values as opposed to a "born again" dishonest candidate as some in the race are.
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