REVEAL study
| Posted On: 02/06/08 08:27:19 AM |
Age 52, MI |
I am not a believer in the seeker sensitive church model. I believe that the church has a mandate to follow. Yet in bashing seeker sensitive churches I believe that we miss an important point. Bill Hybels has recently released a study called REVEAL. In this study he admits that the Willow Creek model falls short in maturing believers and states that this is an area that needs to be looked into as a priority item. I heartily agree with that because my belief is that the church should be a body of believers who are maturing so they can reach out to the unchurched and bring them into the fold. This can only happen when the proper balance is found between attracting the unchurched and in maturing the believers who are already in the church and equipping them so they can evangelize.
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liberal gospel is still liberal
| Posted On: 01/10/08 07:30:03 PM |
Age 47, MO |
Dan:
Thanks for this well thought out well written piece. I've been fighting the love message for years now and can honestly say that it is prevelant in most all American churches. Some churches embrase it and others tolerate it, either way it's the wave of the future. The church is to blame for not cherishing the truth and not seperating from the world. Indeed, the love gospel is the same liberal message the world preaches but with a religious twist.
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Seeker Friendly is Apostasy to Biblical teachings
| Posted On: 01/10/08 04:55:53 PM |
Age 64, OR |
Fist, the Christian church is for "believers" not "seekers". A true Biblical church should have active missionary outreach to non-believers and only invite the unchurched and unbelievers if those persons have sincerely accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior and turned their back on their old ways.
Seeker friendly churches pattern their programs after the apostate Dr. Schuller's "church growth" program, just as Osteen, Warren, and others have done. They are more into being men-pleasers than worshiping and having reverential fear of God. God will hold all accountable for their actions and inactions...where's the fear in them of this? NONE whatsoever or they wouldn't do what they are doing.
As for Joel Osteen and Warren and other apostates, they are tools used by Satan to subtly deceive the religious lemmings following them.
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The Church in the Wilderness
| Posted On: 01/10/08 03:29:06 PM |
Age 58, NC |
God has placed the condition of the Body of Christ in my Spirit and has given me a message to the church. This message in book form is in the last stage of publishing now and should be available this spring. It is entitled "The Church in the Wilderness" and reveals God's message to the Body for the modern church. I think you will find that God doesn't believe we can have him as Savior and not Lord, no matter who says we can. Yes, God is love, but God is also Holy. He loves us but He also expects us to serve Him and to be led by the Spirit. The Word of God shows us what the Church is supposed to be as well as what it means to be a righteous person. I hope that Grace is wide enough to cover some of what seems to be close to heresy, but I truly fear it isn't. Narrow is the way and small is the gate that leads to eternal life.
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Broad Generalization
| Posted On: 01/10/08 06:19:36 AM |
Age 28, SC |
While many seeker churches are preaching only what the crowd wants to hear, many are actually preaching the word of God from the pulpit. For 8 years now, I have served in ministry leadership roles within 3 different seeker churches in 3 states. (I would also like to add that I have a BA in Religion from a highly respected Christian university.) All 3 of these churches have said things the crowd did not want to hear--even some good ol' hellfire and brimstone. One pastor even preached out against homosexuality knowing that there were at least 3 homosexual couples in the crowd that day.
I do not think it is fair to judge all churches that fit a particular model based on the errors of some. I have seen churches from all denominational models that are not biblical--yet I do not claim that all Methodist, all Lutheran, all Episcopal, or any other church method is unbiblical. Each church should be viewed only in context of the work it is doing, and not it's programming format. And, as for those unbiblical seeker churches that are bringing lost souls to Christ, I join the Apostle Paul in proclaiming, "But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." (Philippians 1:18).
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- Most won't discern truth from falsehood
| Posted On: 01/10/08 08:58:11 PM | | Age 55, SC |
My experience in a large, seeker-sensitive church reflects much of what the author, and others like him, have stated. The church is for the believer, a Biblical concept that most seeker-sensitive churches seem to have forgotten. The "small groups" where one is supposed to "connect" are able to be lead by anyone who wants to; the consequence of this is that many of them aren't Bible studies at all, since many are clueless about how to study the Bible. The "felt need" groups, e.g., single moms, recovering alcoholics, young singles, divorced singles and every other type of "felt need" group all meet together in their small group which provides no opportunity for the Biblical precept of "older women" teaching "younger women" to be practiced never-mind those who are mature in the faith being able to provide some healthier role models for many of these hurtful situations. Thus they continue in bondage to the very things that they turned to Christ for deliverance from and don't understand why their lives haven't changed. Some of the "freedoms" that are enjoyed include drinking wine at Bible study - that's great except you don't know who may actually have a problem with alcohol. One youth group was actually exposed to pornographic videos in their small group until the leader was exposed by one of the members. My biggest objection to "seeker-sensitive" churches is their failure to teach the Body how to rightly divide the Word of Truth for themselves which has allowed all types of heretical teachings and false teachers to thrive. If anyone objects, they are taught to "agree to disagree" and since most are ignorant about what the Bible actually teaches, they will swallow whatever pablum is dispersed from the pulpit and worse, believe whatever else someone writes in a book. Any book, but the Bible. This is why New Age teaching has found such an easy inroad to seeker-sensitive churches - because the Bible is not studied by the congregations of these churches. And that, my friend, has led to the great apostasy.
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Biblical church
| Posted On: 01/09/08 10:11:37 PM |
Age 50, TX |
Is the modern church that has held sway in America and Europe for the past 400 years Biblical? Is the King James Bible Biblical? Is an article decrying seeker churches biblical? All to easy to assume that who I am is the standard for all others and to proclaim my view, practice, church, biblical.
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- Basis
| Posted On: 01/20/08 01:40:56 PM | | Age 28, TX |
You assume that this article, or any practice, is derived from self-righteousness rather than careful study and a heart for Christ. You may wish to rethink that, in light of the reasoning of the average seeker-sensitive church ("We must please men").--Mrs. Pilgrim
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ORDERLY WORSHIP
| Posted On: 01/09/08 02:58:57 PM |
Age 64, OH |
The seeker sensitive church is just a result from the church that it sprung from. Almost the whole church REFUSES to obey God and They will not do as the Holy Scriptures plainly says. How about this scripture in 1 Cor 14: 26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. ALL THESE MUST BE DONE for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.-- PAUL CONTINUES 36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.-- Is your church obeying Paul and the Holy Scriptures in this. Now you know why your church IS BEING IGNORED, for Paul said that is what would happen if you did not do these things. Confess and repent. this is the way we run our church and it is growing but more important there is life and people want to be there to be part of it. Lou
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Great Article
| Posted On: 01/09/08 11:18:31 AM |
Age 34, TX |
Your article hit the bullseye. My biggest concern is that the "secular world" uses people like Osteen and Warren (just to name a couple)when talking about evangelicals. They are men of God but using them as shining examples of God's work in this world is damaging to the true work of God's people.
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- WHAT IS A MAN OF GOD
| Posted On: 01/09/08 02:45:14 PM | | Age 64, OH |
In the Book of Jeremiah there were 200 prophets in Jerusalem that claimed to speak for God but hey were false prophets not men of God. There was one man of God in Jerusalem who spoke the truth and that was Jeremiah. These men do not speak the truth and are not men of God. I am not judging their souls but their ministry. Lou
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Non seeker fraud also:
| Posted On: 01/09/08 06:18:17 AM |
Age 45, PA |
I couldn't agree more about an organization called a church that purposely invites the unregenerate into a "belivers" gathering is knowingly sowing tare amoung the wheat. To grow a so called church with feel good self improvement messages is deception of the real believer and the unbeliever.
With all that being said let's look at the log in our eyes. First today's visible church opperates with a man or men as it's head. You have men with important titles, degrees running the organization....where is the Holy Spirit, where is ALL in agreement, where is the function of 1 Cor 14, where are all the whole Body parts being used?
Today's non-roman church is the result of the incomplete work of the reformers who's stated intention where to give the priesthood back to the believers but kept it to themselves. Calvin insisted that he and he alone could preach and made the sermon the focal point of the gathering and not Christ, hence todays church. Thanks for nothing hero's of the reformation! Today's Seeker friendly organizaions are just built on the incomplte work of those in the past who desired to be the head of Christ's bride and make a nice living from it.
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- Exactly!
| Posted On: 01/10/08 01:24:58 PM | | Age 47, MO |
I would suggest that everyone read Revolution, by George Barna (the polster). George makes very good points about the state of religion in the USA and about the true church as individual believers. The problem today, as you mentioned, is that we are corporate believers and forsake our individual responsibilities. We do this risking our own demise. John
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- Seeker sensitive
| Posted On: 01/09/08 12:32:50 PM | | Age 61, MO |
Amen to this comment! George Cancilla
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