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Poltically Correct Osteen Does It Again: Why Does This Guy Call Himself A Pastor?
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THERE HAD TO BE A VIRGIN BIRTH- BUT WE DID NOT HAVE TO KNOW OF IT
Posted On: 01/08/08 10:20:43 PM Age 64, OH
What should we take as the authority. What every man agrees to on the whole earth or what God says. You have said a man has to believe in the Trinity to be saved. Surly then you can show me a scripture that plainly says so. In fact you should be able to show me many on so important a point. For the scriptures say everything should be established by two or more witnesses. When you get done with that show me a plain scripture that says we must believe in the virgin birth or go to hell. I believe every word of the scripture and I believe in the virgin birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus had to be both the One and Only true God Almighty and also a man born of a woman to be able to be our kinsman-redeemer. But does a man have to know the qualifications of the kinsman-redeemer to be saved by The Kinsman- Redeemer. The scriptures would say different if you believe the scriptures which I believe you do. Look at Ruth; she did not even know there was such a thing as a kinsman-redeemer, yet she was redeemed by one. Is not Boaz a type of the kinsman-redeemer Jesus. Jesus had to be a close kin to redeem us so had to become a man. But he also had to be able to pay the price to redeem our land (heaven). So Jesus had to be righteous and no one is righteous except for God Almighty. Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. We can see by the scriptures that the child Jesus was a Man born of a virgin and THE EVERLASTING FATHER. So are you going to believe the scriptures or men. Lou
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Who are his Deacons?
Posted On: 01/07/08 05:09:42 PM Age 60, MI
Shame on Joel Osteen, but even more so shame on his Deacons, or whatever board is running his home church. Can the whole organization not know its Scriptures? Why are they allowing Joel to run amuck???
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  1. Church authority - Biblical qualifications
    Posted On: 01/09/08 11:26:29 PMAge 64, OR
    A "pastor" is a GIFT not an authority in the local church. Read the scriptures and prove it to be to yourself as the Bereans did. The only authority in the church are: Bishops/Elders and Deacons. Bishops/Elders have authority over spiritual matters while Deacons have authority over temporal matters. The role of church pastor has drifted only because MAN allowed it to occur over many centuries. No pastor OWNS his own church either because the 'church' is not a building but the people who comprise the fellowship of believers. Any so-called pastor or reverend (there are none reverend but God)are apostate from Biblical teachings. When true church authority (Bishop/Elder, Deacon) abdicates their God given authority to a "pastor" then that church is in deep spiritual trouble and will be held accountable by God Himself.
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curious?
Posted On: 01/06/08 10:20:02 PM Age 73, OH
Hi Steve, I sent in a feedback I am wondering why it has not been posted. I did not attack Joel personally, and I'm curious why it was rejected. I am not a novice. I am a licensed minister and Bible teacher. Thx for your answer.
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JESUS IS MERCIFUL AND JUST
Posted On: 01/05/08 10:41:18 AM Age 64, OH
I am so thankful that only Jesus Christ is the Judge. If some of the people who posted on this article were the Judge everyone would be in heaven and we would just have this sinful world for all eternity. Men are all liars; so just because someone professes Jesus Christ does not mean they have made Him their Lord. Jesus says MANY will say Lord, Lord and I will say go away I never knew you. What about all the men who profess to love truth. Is not Jesus The Truth. So all who profess to love truth would get in by the judgment of some. What about Love; is not Jesus love,so let all who profess love in also. What about mercy, justice, and ANYTHING GOOD. For Jesus is all these things. Is there any man who does not profess to love what is good. By the judgment of some, Hitler himself would greet us at the Pearly Gate. But wait; what about Satan himself. Does he not love God, for did not even Satan say, "I will be like the Most High". Lets see Satan believes that there is One God who is the Most High and he also knows that Jesus is His Only Begotten Son. And Satan even wants to be like the Most High God. I stand corrected; according to these who would leave any in heaven, it would not be Hitler who greets us at the gate but it would be the father of all lies, Satan. Jesus is not merciful OR just; but Jesus is merciful AND just. Lou
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HEAR HEAR!
Posted On: 01/04/08 09:19:53 AM Age 37, MN
Thank you Steve... I agree. I am also not terribly impressed with Mike Huckabee who backed down from his original assertion on Mormonism which was true. The fact that Huckabee is a Rick Warren fan doesn't help his case any.
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  1. Truth behind Mike Huckabee
    Posted On: 01/08/08 12:12:36 PMAge 64, OR
    Mike Huckabee is one of those liberal theologians who believes in church replacement theology...e.g. the church replaced Israel in God's blessing (ignorant and Biblical apostasy). He's liberal on social policy issues as well and has NO foreign policy credentials other than having written for the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations), so this should concern conservative Christians. Any political hopeful who has ties to the CRF or Bilderbergs is a "anti-soveignty" politician and supports globalism. Huchabee is also soft on illegal immigration (actually it should be called illegal invasion because that is what it is!). He supports amnesty for 12 to 30 million lawbreakers in this country illegally. As for me and my family we will not vote Republican or Democrat and if it comes down to it we will do a "write in" candidate on the ballot - in protest of the anti-Americanism floating like scum on both sides of the two major policital parties. And for sure do NOT vote for Hillary Clinto, (Satan dressed in drag), or Barack Obama (Muslim in apostate Christian clothing).
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    1. Re: Truth behind Mike Huckabee
      Posted On: 07/01/08 10:42:38 AMAge 63, CANADA
      Who cares if Mike Huckabee thinks the church replaces Isreal. That is NOT and essential issue necessary for salvation. Have your ever heard the saying "In essentials unity, in non essestial charity". Mike HUckabee, according to scripture will be saved according to his FAITH in Christ. If you need a list of essential beliefs for salvation may I recommend equip.org. Sites like this cause a rift in the body of Christ because they cause division about non-essential issues. Why no articles about the real heritics like Benny Hinn and his kind.
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Mormon theology
Posted On: 01/04/08 01:51:04 AM Age 19, CA
So I've done some research into Mormon theology, and I know most of it is pretty skewed. But then, where in the Bible are we told that only those with perfect theology are saved? Rather, the Bible states quite clearly and unequivocally that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Period. There are many wonderful Christians who were not perfect in their theology and opinions (Luther's anti-Semitism comes to mind). Now allow me to make myself very clear--I think Mormons have things very wrong, and believe very false things. But a love for Jesus is a love for Jesus, regardless of the motive. I think giving blanket statements regarding Mormons or Catholics is foolish in all cases, really, since we don't know how close to God each and every Mormon or Catholic is. In the end, shouldn't we work out our own salvation in fear and trembling? And if Mormons and Catholics are truly not part of the church, why don't we follow the command of Paul, and let God judge those outside the church, while we judge those who are part of the church?
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  1. Mormon Theology
    Posted On: 01/08/08 05:58:37 PMAge 68, OK
    Yes, Romans 10:9 says that if one confess Jesus as Lord and that He has risen and is alive, they will be saved. Lord in the New Testament Greek is "Kurios" and always means God. Mormons do not believe that Jesus is Lord God. Mormons believe that Jesus is a god, the son of God, that He is half God. Mormons deny the Trinity of our One God, and are themselves polytheistic in their belief. Many times a profession is not a confession from the heart.
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    1. RE: Mormon Theology
      Posted On: 01/08/08 09:24:24 PMAge 19, CA
      I've addressed this. Simply because people are misinformed about Jesus doesn't mean they don't truly serve God. I used the analogy that athletes can play sports excellently without knowing many things about physics. In fact, many athletes play sports MUCH better than do the physicists! However, learning more about physics can do nothing but help an athlete. Similarly, many people have terrible theology, but serve God with all their hearts--moreso than some who have very precise theology. Nevertheless, a better knowledge of theology will help a person to better love God.
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  2. Read 2 Corinthians 11
    Posted On: 01/08/08 04:11:57 PMAge 40, CANADA
    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.... 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
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    1. RE: Read 2 Corinthians 11
      Posted On: 01/08/08 09:01:43 PMAge 19, CA
      So what exactly are you trying to say with these verses? After all, as the saying goes, text without context is a pretext.
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  3. Luther's anti-Semitism
    Posted On: 01/08/08 01:57:03 PMAge 56, OK
    I don't see where you think Luther was anti-semitic. Do you really even know what anti-semitic means? People have been taught to think the meaning is hatred against jews, that is not what it means. Besides when you get right down to it, if Luther was anti-semitic so was John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. Matter of fact the Bible could be considered anti-semitic. The word anti-semitic is just a buzz word. To put it bluntly, it is a buzz word scam job.
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    1. IF YOU KNOW THE TRUTH - THEN TELL IT
      Posted On: 01/08/08 09:29:50 PMAge 64, OH
      You claim to that what the person says is not true and then you claim to know the truth and you do not even bother to tell us the truth. For crying out loud tell us what anti-semetic does mean and also tell us how Jesus was anti-semitic. Or are you just talking. Lou
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      1. Re: IF YOU KNOW THE TRUTH - THEN TELL IT
        Posted On: 01/09/08 08:32:55 PMAge 56, OK
        Age 19, CA, how about an answer to my Luther Anti-Semitsm question. Lou, I am waiting to see if "age 19 CA" is going to respond to my question. If they do not answered by tomorrow night, I will consider them just a bag of hot air, and will give you the answers to your question.
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        1. I WILL GLADLY WAIT
          Posted On: 01/11/08 01:20:18 AMAge 64, OH
          THANKS Lou
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        2. RE: Luther's anti-Semitism
          Posted On: 01/10/08 11:44:43 PMAge 19, CA
          Sorry, I DID answer your question, but it wasn't posted. I apologize for not noticing that. The reason people think that anti-semitism means prejudice against Jews is because it does! Look in any dictionary (or go to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anti-semitism). As far as Luther's anti-semitism, I'll let the facts speak for themselves (visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther#Luther_and_antisemitism). Notice that Luther sanctioned the murder of Jews! I also am curious about your definition of anti-semitism, and why you think the Bible and Jesus are anti-semitic.
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          1. RE: Luther's anti-Semitism
            Posted On: 01/11/08 09:26:09 AMAge 56, OK
            Age 19, CA I see you went to a modern terminology and not the historical refernce. You have to study the bible historically not according to modern day thought. It is like the words gay and queer. They have been perverted today and do not represent they original meaning. Any way anti-semitic or anti-semitism means anti-shemite. Shemite being from Shem one of the sons of Noah. But in the this reference the seed of Shem according to Abraham's seed. Therefore to be anti-semtic could mean anti toward anyone of Shem's seed through Abraham which would include Ishmel's seed also, or any of Abraham's sons by Kutura his second wife. There is 2 groups of people that call themselves jews. One is the Ashkenazi (Ash·ke·nazi) jew which christians refer to when they talk of jews. They are from Khazarian descent "Khazars". The other group is the Sephardic jews. They come from Spainish descent. You keep talking about Luther, but, what about Jesus and what about what the bible says. Of course John the Babtist and others. The original term jew that is in the bible would be referring to Judah only, or a Judean. That would not include the House of Israel. Anyone who was or is a jew (Judaite) would be of the house of Judah not the house of Israel. Of course there was no such word jew until about the 13th century. It is not a hebrew nor is it a greek word. The 1980 Jewish Almanac, P.3 says: "Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." I can give you the names of books to read on the subject that are written by jews. You have to study acient bible history, you cannot depend on modern day theology. That's what has gotten christianity in the trouble it is today, is modern day agendas. If I may ask, are you a bible school student? I know this is long but you and Lou asked.
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            1. RE: RE: Luther's anti-Semitism
              Posted On: 01/15/08 03:13:34 AMAge 19, CA
              Hey, sorry it took me so long to reply. I've been planning activities for some of my pals and me to do this next semester, and that's been taking most of my time. However, about anti-semitism, you are correct with regard to the etymology of the word; it does come from the idea that Jews came from the descendants of Shem. However, where you err is in the belief that "anti-semitism" was ever used for any other purpose than "anti-Jew." It never was. I poked around on the internet and found an interesting article (http://middleeastinfo.org/library/lewis_antisemitism.html). It's rather long, but in the ninth paragraph, it states quite clearly that anti-semitism has only ever been concerned with Jews. If you have a source which says otherwise, I'd be interested in seeing it. My point about Luther was that he had some really good theology, but parts of his belief system were very disturbing and anti-biblical. His anti-semitism flew in the face of Jesus command to "love your neighbor as yourself." I am actually not a Bible student, but I have been studying theology in one way or another for over five years. I read some Piper, Sproul, Swindoll, McLaren, Calvin, Spurgeon, Lewis--I'm really all over the place in what I read. I actually go to school at UC Berkeley, and am part of a terrific Presbyterian church there.
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            2. WHO IS FROM ISRAEL - WHO IS A JEW
              Posted On: 01/14/08 01:16:22 PMAge 64, OH
              Thanks for the reply. But you say It is incorrect to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite. But if we are going to be correct then all Jews are from Israel are they not. For Judah was a son of Israel. But as to Israel: Who named Israel; was is not God Himself after Jacob wrestled with him all night long. Does not Israel mean one who has power with God. So men call some men Israelites and other not. But it is Jesus Christ who has the right and the power to say who is Israel and who is not. Jesus named Jacob Israel and When he came down from heaven and was born of a woman he told us who Israel was and was not. He told the pharisees that just because they had Abraham for their father that they were not Israel but the Devil was their father. True Israel as recognized by Jesus are the ones who wrestle with Him through the night and will not leave go until Jesus blesses them. Jesus then gives us a new name because we are new creatures in Christ. He touches us and from that point on we walk with a limp or we are lame. All are lame but we are the ones that it is evident to all that we are lame. We now have power with God because he considers us His friends. Or as Paul says we are grafted into the tree. I am an Israelite and I am a Jew. For Jesus was the Lion of the tribe of Judah and i am His child. Lou
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              1. RE: RE: Luther's and WHO IS FROM ISRAEL
                Posted On: 01/16/08 10:04:52 PMAge 56, OK
                Well this feed is to far down the list so this is my last post on this one. to 19, CA. first. According to your article it's a word that means absolutely nothing because it is myth. Second it states the jews decided to use for themselves. You state you are all over the place with your studies, and, I agree. As I stated you take the modern route like most people because it is a quick fix and you don't have to do any digging. In other words you are wanting truth just something to say. Luther said no worse than Jesus said or John the baptist, is my point. I didn't say it was incorrect I posted an article which in that article the jews proclaim it to be so. Why do you disbelieve them? No Judah was not born a son of Israel, he was a son of Jacob. Judah was not born an Israelite. Unless God goes back on His Word nothing has changed on who the house of Israel or the house of Judah is. Just coming to Jesus Christ does not make anyone and Israelite or Judahite. That is a heriesy teaching that pop it's head up some years back. If you ain't naturally of the house of Israel or the house of Judah then you ain't. Catch yall on another post. I will not be coming back to this one.
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                1. PAUL - NOT ALL OF ISRAEL ARE ISRAEL
                  Posted On: 01/18/08 03:38:31 PMAge 64, OH
                  1ST of all this man says Israelites are made Israelites by birth; and it is heresy to say different. Then he says Judah was not an Israelite. Genesis 43:8 Then JUDAH said to ISRAEL his father, (SO JUDAH WAS THE SON OF ISRAEL)- Joshua 7:16 Early the next morning Joshua had ISRAEL come forward by tribes, and JUDAH was taken.-- WE CAN SEE THAT THE TRIBE OF JUDAH WAS OF THE NATION OF ISRAEL. Not all of Israel are of Judah but all of Judah is of Israel. A person can try to justify their doctrine and be blinded by that or look in the Book and seek God and see.-- NOW WHEN DID JACOB BECOME ISRAEL.-- Was it by birth, NO, NO IT WAS NOT.-- It was because Jacob sought God and would not let go of Him. He was Jacob up until that point and then God changed Jacobs name to Israel ( or one who has power with God)-- From that point on all who were born of Jacob or Israel were called Israelites, including Judah and those born of Judah.-- But when Jesus came he made it clear that not all of born of Israel were Israel when he told the pharisees who had Israel for a father that there father was the Devil. Paul also was aware of this when he said, Romans 9:6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.-- There are TWO Israels as shown in the scriptures from the beginning. Abraham had descendants of the sand and of the stars.-- The descendants of the sand were those born of Abraham by natural birth. The descendants of the stars are those who have the same faith as Abraham and he is the father of their faith. There are two Israels: those born of Israel by natural birth and those that struggle with God as Israel did and not leave go of Him. -- But to say any error of this truth is HERESY is far beyond reason. The Bible makes it very clear that there is only one condition to being saved and that is to trust Him to save you and no one and nothing else. So a person needs to be of the faith of Abraham but does not even need to know that Abraham existed to be saved. A person has to be of the spiritual tribe of Israel and wrestled with God and will not leave go to be saved. But he does not need to know of Israel. He has to be an Israelite but does not need to know that he is an Israelite. Lou
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  4. Defining a "Christian"
    Posted On: 01/06/08 08:02:06 PMAge 64, OR
    First, just saying you are a Christian does not make you one! You can't pick and choose scripture about Jesus and conclusively take for granted a person who says they are "Christian" are indeed Christian. One must first define what BEING a Christian means. Christianity is NOT a religion but a personal relationship with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ - the ONLY begotten Son of the Living God. After reading your statement I'm not sure you are a Christian (follower of Christ Jesus). If a Mormon is a Christian (just because he says so) then if I sit in my garage then I must be an automobile, right? Mormons are NOT Christian because they hold fast to apostate teachings that Jesus is the BROTHER of Lucifer. Lucifer is a created angel. Jesus is NOT an angel but fully man and fully God...hence, "I and the Father are one. I in Him and He in Me! Jesus has always been present with God the Father, while Lucifer was a created spiritual angel. Mormons are no more Christian than Muslims.
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    1. RE: Defining a "Christian"
      Posted On: 01/07/08 04:23:34 AMAge 19, CA
      I took my definition of Christian from the words of Paul in Romans. Now, I think that my definition is actually superior to your definition, since being a Christian is much more than having a "personal relationship with God." Yes, that's part of it, and I agree that Christianity isn't a religion, but you can't just simplify faith to a personal relationship. Christianity has a personal dimension, but there is a very important corporate dimension to our faith as well. Not only must you "believe in your heart" (the personal dimension), but you must "confess with your mouth" (the corporate dimension). To pigeon-hole the Christian faith to just personal or just corporate is a huge mistake, which is why the "personal relationship with God" idea just doesn't hold water. However, concerning the system of beliefs Mormons have, you say that "they hold fast to apostate teachings that Jesus is the BROTHER of Lucifer." What is it about this belief that makes those who believe it apostate? I agree that the belief is incorrect, but why is it damning? That's what you mean by "apostate teachings," right? So what is it about THIS belief that makes it a "go directly to Hell" belief? Isn't salvation about more than theological points? I mean, I've always been taught that we are saved by the grace of God, not by our theology.
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      1. Apostate Christianity
        Posted On: 01/08/08 12:18:05 PMAge 64, OR
        An "apostate" separates themself from the authentic teachings of God through His Word. Those that are apostate to God's Word have chosen to follow man-made doctrine over the pure Word of God and His directives. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. The only way to the Father is through the Son." Anything less is following a different Jesus and Gospel of Christ.
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        1. RE: Apostate Christianity
          Posted On: 01/08/08 10:41:00 PMAge 19, CA
          I completely and whole-heartedly agree that the only way to God is through the Way, the Truth, and the Life, which is Jesus. I don't think we have an argument here. Our disagreement is more over what it is that makes a person apostate, I think. See, you define those who are apostate as those who "have chosen to follow man-made doctrine over the pure Word of God and His directives." I submit that this definition is in error, since it cause us all to be damned to hell. Note that I'm assuming that one who holds apostate beliefs is damned; correct me if you meant otherwise by your use of apostate. It is presumptuous to believe that all the doctrines you or I hold are from the Bible. What's more is that this implies only those with perfect theology are saved, since if one doesn't have perfect theology, part of one's theology then must be from man other than God. This leads to a salvation by works--one must perfect one's theology, as opposed to simply submitting to the grace of God.
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          1. ERROR being taught from pulpits
            Posted On: 01/09/08 03:00:08 PMAge 64, OR
            You err in what you say. Clearly anyone apostate from God's directive just may be "condemned to hell" as you state, but I'll leave that up to God when we all come before His Great White Throne of Judgment. You also err in saying that I to am condemned because it is a blatant and erroneous assumption that all Christians follow the way of men - which I do not. I stopped following the ranks of evangelicals because most are apostate in the post-modernist church. I am one of a few who have purposely "separated" myself from those who are apostate and do all I can to call pastors, elders, decons on the carpet for their wayward ways. I am a separatist for Christ to keep the WAY pure. I go as far as saying all who follow and support anti-Biblical sects via church denominations are apostate because they pay more attention to men than Christ's teachings (hence: Osteen, Warren, et al). Christianity was not intended to become a huge number of religious sects created by men, but ONLY followers of Christ through His teachings (Old and New testament). Christianity by in large has become sectatian religious institutions heirarchically headed by men and followed by men pleasers. I am as far from that apostasy as I can get. What all sincere Christians should do is PRAY TO GOD FOR THE GIFT OF SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT. Only those with spiritual discernment will understand what I say.
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            1. RE: ERROR being taught from pulpits
              Posted On: 01/11/08 12:27:58 AMAge 19, CA
              You say, "You err in what you say. Clearly anyone apostate from God's directive just may be "condemned to hell" as you state, but I'll leave that up to God when we all come before His Great White Throne of Judgment." This means that your idea of apostate is not someone who is "anathema," but someone who is not following God's decree exactly, right? You say, "You also err in saying that I to am condemned because it is a blatant and erroneous assumption that all Christians follow the way of men - which I do not." Is all of your theology perfect? No? Then, to one degree or the other, your theology is not true, so you are therefore holding to theology that is not of God, but of man. Therefore, in particular areas of your life, you "have chosen to follow man-made doctrine over the pure Word of God and His directives." Now, this is your original definition of one who is apostate, which implies you are therefore apostate. You say, "I stopped following the ranks of evangelicals because most are apostate in the post-modernist church. I am one of a few who have purposely "separated" myself from those who are apostate and do all I can to call pastors, elders, decons on the carpet for their wayward ways. I am a separatist for Christ to keep the WAY pure." You know, this sounds a lot like what Joseph Smith claimed he was doing. I agree that there are some who claim to be teachers that are actually harming their churches. This is a problem, but we should be trying to fix the problem instead of abandoning it. You say, "I go as far as saying all who follow and support anti-Biblical sects via church denominations are apostate because they pay more attention to men than Christ's teachings (hence: Osteen, Warren, et al)." So are you saying that all denominations are anti-biblical? And if not, how do you decide which are anti-biblical and which aren't? I think the amount of divisiveness in the modern day denominations is very bad for the Church, but the corrupted unification of the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages was also very bad. Most denominations don't seem to be at each other's throats where I live, and instead are sharpening each other, like iron sharpens iron. You say, "Christianity was not intended to become a huge number of religious sects created by men, but ONLY followers of Christ through His teachings (Old and New testament). Christianity by in large has become sectatian religious institutions heirarchically headed by men and followed by men pleasers." I agree, more or less. But without denominations, there would either be more conflict within churches or a standard interpretation of the Bible for all of Christendom. So the problem isn't so much with the denominations, it's with the human condition.
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      2. The "end times" are definately upon us
        Posted On: 01/07/08 06:47:31 PMAge 47, TX
        A "Christian" will have a desire in his/her heart to be with othe believers or Christians and a desire to be in a church where God abides and is blessing. Even a novice Christian knows that God will not abide where false doctrine is taught. The Bible calls for us (Christians) to come out apart from the world which makes it pretty simple that a true believer / Christian cannot, should not and would not attach themselves to a church or religion that teaches false doctrine contrary to the Word of God. As far as a church being a little tainted or teaching a few things that are false is still contrary to what Christ demands of His Bride "The Church". Just curious if you were given a 1 gallon jug of tea to drink and the giver informed you that most of it was good tea but it had 1 teaspoon of urine added would you accept it to drink? I don't think so nor will Jesus Christ accept an "almost" pure bride.
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        1. RE: The "end times" are definately upon us
          Posted On: 01/08/08 10:54:24 PMAge 19, CA
          Your post addresses a key part of the Christian walk (sanctification), but sanctification isn't the idea in question here. I agree with you, which is why in my original post I remarked that I don't think Mormons have good theology at all. It's full of holes and shoddy doctrine, and when one talks with Mormons about theology, that's the time to expose the error. However, the point in question is the justification of individual Mormons. You make the statement that a true Christian won't stay in a place in which the truth isn't being taught. That's a very bold statement, and I really think that it depends on how well the Christian in question knows truth. If the Christian is growing is his relationship with Christ, then I agree, but if for whatever reason he is not, I disagree. In the latter case, the man is still a Christian, but has gotten out of touch with God.
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        2. DOCTRINE DOES NOT SAVE BUT JESUS SAVES
          Posted On: 01/08/08 09:33:58 PMAge 64, OH
          I agree with your example but one must remember we are made pure by His blood and not our doctrine. If we had to have pure doctrine the you, I or no one else would go to be with Him in heaven. Lou
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          1. Doctrine saves not
            Posted On: 04/15/08 12:58:19 AMAge 24, KY
            Jesus come to save mankind not doctrine.As much as we have so many christian groups,what matters is our parsonal relationship with GOD.GOD bless
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  5. Morman response to "Age 19, CA"
    Posted On: 01/06/08 02:12:43 AMAge 60, AZ
    Amen.
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  6. Hey, how is Steve doing?
    Posted On: 01/05/08 02:14:33 PMAge 33, IN
    I do not remember where I heard this but in my mind it really put's to bed the issue of which Jesus or allah and God. Two men are catching up on old times. Mike asks Dave how Steve, an old high school buddy is doing. Mike: "So, how's ol' Stevie doin'?" Dave: "He's still realing from Janet's death." Mike: "Who's Janet?" Dave: "His Wife." Mike: "His wife's name is Isabela" Dave: "His wife's name is Janet. See, the obit reads Janet Marie Gonklin, 32 died..." Mike: "Gonklin? I thought we were talking about Steve Taylor" You see these men are talking about a man named Steve. However, once they hammer out a few facts about Steve they realize they are talking about two different guys. The Jesus of the Mormon faith is the spirit brother of Satan. He is the product of an actual sexual encounter God had with Mary. His plan of salvation was one of two. The other being submitted by Satan. That in no way describes the Jesus of the Bible. The Quran states that Allah had no son. The bible states over and over and over again that Jesus is the Son of God. So, no. Mormons are NOT Christians. Muslims are not Christians. Joel Osteen is a heretic!!
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    1. RE: Hey, how is Steve doing?
      Posted On: 01/07/08 04:06:09 AMAge 19, CA
      I liked your illustration, and I think I've heard a similar one before. However, I don't think it applies here. A more applicable test would be the test Jesus gives us in Matthew 7, and I think I've tackled your concern using Matthew 7 in my reply to the feedback a couple below yours with the subject "allah." Please tell me if there's something you pointed out you feel I need to address more explicitly/better/whatever.
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      1. It's who you know...
        Posted On: 05/28/08 01:54:43 PMAge 29, MD
        I would disagree with you. Yes, Jesus did say that by their fruits, we would know them. But he then went on to say: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"--Mt. 7:21-23 So you see, it's not simply by what we do. The Jesus that Joseph Smith brought to his followers is one that was made up and given to him by demons. Check it out! Mormonism's message of salvation is false, because their savior is NOT the Savior found in the Holy Scriptures. Please do not be deceived! Another thing to ponder: if it doesn't matter which Jesus, why does scripture make it clear that some will come preaching "a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached"?
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  7. IS THE MORMON JESUS REALLY JESUS
    Posted On: 01/05/08 10:21:36 AMAge 64, OH
    I did not notice anyone saying that no Mormon could be saved. I would not say that. But I would say that it unlikely that many are and probable that none or only very , very few could be saved. Paul says in Galatians to the professing Christians who also trusted in being circumcised that JESUS COULD NOT SAVE THEM. You can not trust in Jesus and something else to save you and be saved. You have to trust in Jesus and no one and nothing else to be saved. You can not trust in Jesus AND the church to save you. You can not trust in Jesus AND the pastor to save you. You can not trust in Jesus AND even the Bible to save you. You can not trust in your salvation but you must trust in your SAVIOR who is God Almighty for there is no Savior except for Him. The Mormons confess that they trust in the Book of Mormon. They confess they trust in Joseph Smith. They trust in a god who is the god of this earth but only one of millions. They do not believe the person they claim is God. For that matter there is no God Almighty according to them. They think that Jesus and Satan are brothers who were born to a god who had sex with a woman god. So you see the person they name by the sounds from their mouths of JE- SUS is not Jesus at all but he is the one who they think is his brother. Jesus says FEW will find the way. So most who profess to be Christians are not and the odds of any one who confesses to be a Mormon are considerably less. Lou
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    1. RE:IS THE MORMON JESUS REALLY JESUS
      Posted On: 01/07/08 04:02:04 AMAge 19, CA
      You say, _"You have to trust in Jesus and no one and nothing else to be saved. You can not trust in Jesus AND the church to save you. You can not trust in Jesus AND the pastor to save you. You can not trust in Jesus AND even the Bible to save you. You can not trust in your salvation but you must trust in your SAVIOR who is God Almighty for there is no Savior except for Him."_ This is absolutely true. I have no argument with this at all, since this is the Christian message--that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and the only way to the Father is through Him. This is all well and good. My problem comes when people insist that since what Mormons believe about Jesus is extrabiblical and (in some cases) antibiblical, they must not believe in the same Jesus as we do. I don't think the logic follows. Does the Bible teach that a belief in Jesus is only saving so long as the person in question is a Trinitarian? Or only so long as the person believes in the virgin birth? Yes, these issues are important, and I'm not trying to trivialize either of these doctrines (or lead us on a tangent, for that matter), but I guarantee you that King David was not a Trinitarian, yet he was a man after God's own heart. To withhold salvation from someone based only on the fact that their theology isn't perfect seems petty to me, and that's really the point I'm trying to drive home. After all, we aren't judged by our theology, we're judged by whether we have Jesus in our lives or not. Even if one has a downright wrong understanding of who Jesus is doesn't mean one then cannot have Jesus in one's life. I mean, most athletes have a terrible understanding of physics, but they rely COMPLETELY on physics in order to do what they do.
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      1. Re: Is the Mormon Jesus Really Jesus
        Posted On: 01/09/08 07:09:49 AMAge 68, OK
        David was absolutely a Trinitarian. Read Psalm 110 of his prophecy of God the Father as his Lord, and of God the Son as his Lord. Pat
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      2. DAVID AND FOOTBALL PLAYERS
        Posted On: 01/08/08 10:00:07 PMAge 64, OH
        I forgot to address several of your points. Successful athletes do understand physics. They might not be able to verbalize it but they do understand. Any football player who DENIES the laws of physics and then plays by his own rules will fail miserably. How does being a Trinitarian have anything to do with salvation since it is not in the holy Scriptures at all. David believed in the Messiah and told of His being crucified in the psalms. David also knew the Messiah was God and also the Son of David. David says as much in his writings. If someone uses the word "trinity" it is not scriptural but it will not keep someone out of the kingdom or put them in the kingdom. But they must Trust in God to save them and no one else. It is only the blood of Jesus that can save. There is Only One God. And that God created the universe and then became a man and died on the cross to pay for our sins. Jesus is God, The Father is God, The Holy Spirit of Jesus is God. Isaiah 9:6 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. We can see here that the child Jesus was The Everlasting Father and The Mighty God. They are one in the same. Call that a trinity if you want but i do not because it is not in the scriptures. So I choose to use the same words that Jesus did and just say that God is One. Lou
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      3. A MAN HAS TO CALL ON THE REAL GOD ALMIGHTY TO BE SAVED
        Posted On: 01/08/08 09:22:37 PMAge 64, OH
        dear friend; thank you for your kind reply. I am most thankful we agree on the important points that I began with. I do not think people have to even have heard the sounds Jes-us to be saved. The Name of Jesus is the nature of Jesus. Jesus is God and the Jews claimed to trust in God so they claimed to be Christians but did not recognize the Christ when he stood before them. Not all that claim to trust God do as they say. I did not know Jesus was God and did not know the Bible was The Holy Scriptures when I was saved. I looked out into the heavens and thought maybe there is Creator of all this. I turned to my creator in my troubles and he answered me. I simply said "I do not know what your name is. I have heard of Jesus, Muhammad, Buddah but I do not know what is true. I know that i am a sinner and deserve hell. I ask you my Creator to forgive me and take my life and do with it as you please. Right then i knew that He did forgive me. I was overcome with a deep sense of peace and joy. I was later to see in the scriptures that i was baptized in the Holy Spirit and at the time I did not even know there was a Holy Spirit. BUT I DID SEEK MY CREATOR TO SAVE ME. And my Creator is the Lord Jesus is he not. So I was saved by Jesus and did not even claim to know Him. It took me several years of reading the Bible, Koran , Book of Mormon to see that The Bible was true and Jesus was God. So it is not who claim to trust in Jesus but those who really do. Some Mormons may do just this but the teachings of the whole church of Latter day saints are lies that destroy and not save. These lies twist what Jesus really is and is not Jesus at all. So anyone who calls on the Jesus they teach is not calling on the creator of the world for they teach that Jesus is not the Creator. If they call on the Savior Jesus then they are not calling on God for God has said you will have no Savior except for me, which is true by the Bible because Jesus said he is God. Trusting in the Savior is trusting in God by the Bible, but not those who call upon the god of the book of Mormon. You see we have to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. I did because I called on my Creator which was true, there is a Creator and His name is Jesus. But the Mormons call upon a god who is one of billions and upon a Jesus who is not God either. Satan is not to be fooled with for he is smarter than any of us. Satan came up with the doctrine of the Mormons to trap those who believed it so they would have to repent of them to be saved. Of course this is hard for many once they commit to the Mormon faith. You can not serve both Satan and Christ. And the Mormon doctrines are made to get the people to serve Satan. What is damning about the doctrine of the Mormons: they say that Jesus is just a man and not God. So they are saying that someone besides God can save. As long as a man turns to God for salvation and no one else then he can be saved. But if he turns to someone other than God then God can not save him for he has not even asked God to save him. God is not going to be tricked by mere sounds that come from our lips. He knows when a man is calling on Him and when a man is calling on someone else. Lou
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      4. Only feedback on this one is..............................
        Posted On: 01/07/08 06:56:27 PMAge 47, TX
        You need to study your Bible much much more. If you don't believe in the "Holy Trinity" or the "Virgin Birth" or that Jesus Christ is THE ONLY way to heaven then you are not a Christian because your denying the very things that God Himself uses to define us as Christians or Beleivers. And you are wrong!! King David certainly was a Trinitarian! He knew that there was a Saviour that was coming to save the world.
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        1. WHO WAS MELCHIZEDEK
          Posted On: 01/11/08 02:03:33 AMAge 64, OH
          I am not in fear of any man because no man is going to judge me as you claim you are able to judge me. The Lord Jesus is my judge and I have sought Him for almost as many years as you have been alive. I am trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ and no one or nothing else to save me. I think Jesus is trustworthy and i think he is able to save me. So whatever state Jesus has brought me to at this time is not my final state. He has done a work in me and not without result and i rest in Him to save me. DO YOU THINK I TRUST IN VAIN. the Bible is the Only Book and Jesus is the Only Way. I believe there is One and Only One God and I believe god came down to this earth and was born as a Man of a Virgin. The virgin birth was necessary for Jesus to obey all of the law. But it is not necessary for someone to know of the virgin birth to be saved. Is anyone so thick to think that the thief on the cross knew of the virgin birth. Show me where Jesus ever preached the virgin birth. the virgin birth is told about in the gospels to satisfy the people who knew the law. I have preached to hundreds on the street and many were saved and i don't remember preaching the virgin birth to one but surly not many. One man of 17 is still with the Lord and he is now 44. I have talked to people who were surly saved for they had MUCH FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT and many GIFTS of the Spirit and was amazed that they had no head knowledge that Jesus was God. They thought only the Father was God. but it seems Jesus seen fit to give them His Holy Spirit. So you will have to complain to Jesus. I believe in The Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit and that they are God Almighty. But I use the same terminology as Jesus did. Show me where Jesus said God was a TRINITY or THREE IN ONE or THREE. Jesus said when asked the most important command that The Lord your God is One. Was Jesus a heretic also. Do you think that God could not have created the word TRINITY and used it. If this TRINITY concept is so true and so important why did God not bother to even use the word in all of scriptures. Read Isaiah 9:6 the child who was Jesus was THE EVERLASTING FATHER. THE COUNSELOR (Holy Spirit). How about Isaiah 43 where God says "you will have no other Savior except for me." God is One. God appears three different ways all at once. God is omni-present and can do this without being three different people. Do you follow tradition of men or the scriptures. Show me in scripture that God is three. God says countless places in the Old testament that he is God and THERE IS NO OTHER. You are confused because you do not know the scriptures. As to His Manhood Jesus was not as great as the Father. But as to His Godhood Jesus was The Father. This is beyond man but it is not beyond God. The whole Bible teaches against more than one God. you need to sit down and read them for yourself instead of listening to some preacher. as to David he was a prophet and you should not pretend to be able to speak for him. But answer this question that David knew the answer too. David wrote of Jesus saying 4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind:"You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." WHO WAS THIS MELCHIZEDEK MAN OR GOD. Lou
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        2. RE: Only feedback on this one is..............................
          Posted On: 01/08/08 09:47:40 PMAge 19, CA
          Do you define "Christian" as one who holds to a set of doctrines, or as one who is constantly trying to allow Jesus to show Himself to others? A Christian, quite literally, is a "little Christ." Doesn't that imply that one who strives to act like the true Jesus, no matter what such a person knows/believes about Jesus, is a Christian? You also say that King David was certainly a Trinitarian because "He knew that there was a Saviour that was coming to save the world." That is true, but what does that have to do with the doctrine of the Trinity? When I said David was certainly not a Trinitarian, I meant that there was no way he could know to believe that there were exactly three persons in the one essence of God. And the same argument can be applied to Abel, Noah, Abraham, Judah, Moses, Joshua, and any other godly man/woman in the Old Testament.
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          1. DAVID KNEW THE MESSIAH WAS TO BE THE SON OF DAVID
            Posted On: 01/15/08 11:38:48 AMAge 64, OH
            I Propose that David knew of and trusted in The Father, The Holy Spirit, and The Son. David was a prophet and knew of The Father from scripture and experience. David was led by the Holy Spirit and certainly knew of The Spirit of the Lord even from scripture. But David was given a promise that His Son would sit on the Throne forever. We can see from the scripture that David wrote that David knew Who this Son would be.Psalm 110: 1 The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 2 The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the midst of your enemies. 3 Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy majesty, from the womb of the dawn you will receive the dew of your youth. [a] 4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest FOREVER, in the order of Melchizedek." -- David knew what FOREVER was. Forever meant forever into the future and into the past. So David knew that Melchizedek who was the King of Righteousness and King of Jerusalam was a Priest FOREVER. David also knew that this coming King or Messiah was a Priest and a King FOREVER in the same ORDER as Melchizedek. So David knew that God Almighty sat on the Throne in heaven and led David by His Holy Spirit and was the Coming King who appeared as a Man and was going to be the Son of David. But David knew that they were One for all of scripture teaches that there is One and Only One God. Lou
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  8. allah
    Posted On: 01/04/08 11:00:25 PMAge 29, TX
    Some also say that Allah is just another name for God, and that we worship the same god as the Muslims. We must be careful not to just embrace all who claim the name of Christ. “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matt 7:15-23)
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    1. RE: allah
      Posted On: 01/05/08 04:31:02 AMAge 19, CA
      I think it's interesting that you quote Matthew 7, since that was one of the ideas in my mind as I was giving my initial feedback. Notice that it says in no uncertain terms that we will know who people serve by their actions (we shall know them by their fruits). It doesn't say that we will know who people serve by the name they give it, but rather by what they do. See, people who serve Jesus, regardless of the name they use, will produce good fruit. Certainly there could be Muslims who call on the name of Allah, but in the end we'll discover that who they called Allah, we called Yahweh, or El Shaddai, or God. But really, I don't know. I can't stand on a street corner and pinpoint the people who are saved. That's God's job. And fortunately for everyone, God doesn't require perfect theology. Now, you also make another good point in saying that one can claim to follow Jesus and yet do no such thing. Ultimately, who we serve will be revealed by what we do.
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      1. JESUS WILL REVEAL THE SONS OF GOD
        Posted On: 01/08/08 10:47:19 PMAge 64, OH
        dear friend; you say who we serve will be revealed by what we do. The scriptures disagree with you. For the scriptures say who we serve will be revealed by Jesus Himself. Jesus says we will know them by their fruits. But he is talking to those who will have His Holy Spirit and it is the Holy Spirit who will reveal Himself. What is the will of God. And what are the works that God requires of us. Is it not to trust in God Almighty who became a man to save us by His blood. Is not that the only work which we can do because He will give us grace to do it. When we die to ourself then we are dead and it is Christ that lives in us. So what works can a dead man do. All of our works our not ours but His in reality. We are told to pick up our cross and follow Him. This is very painful until we are dead. When we die it is Jesus who is resurrected in us and Him that lives. The pain then subsides for a dead man feels no pain. We will feel more pain if the Holy Spirit starts to crucify something in us that has still not died. The more we die the less pain. The more we die the more Jesus is resurrected in us. Lou
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        1. The will of God
          Posted On: 01/13/08 01:47:11 AMAge 17, TX
          If I may quote you. “What is the will of God. And what are the works that God requires of us. Is it not to trust in God Almighty who became a man to save us by His blood. Is not that the only work which we can do because He will give us grace to do it.” When the Pharisees asked Jesus what the greatest commandment in the law was (In Matthew 22) , he answered “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments” ~~In essence the two greatest laws are the heart of the law and the prophets. In Matthew 25 the parable of the sheep and the goats, were they not judged by their works?? When the sheep did their good works, they did not realize that when they did these good works to the least of these (brothers), they were actually doing it to God, and that they would be saved because of it. I think a person’s works are a reflection of his faith and his words are a reflection of his heart. I suppose, our difference is that I believe when Jesus said “Ye shall know them by their fruits”, that one could actually see their fruits; (Such as in Galatians 5:19-25 “The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.”)
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          1. JESUS IS THE ONLY SAVIOR
            Posted On: 01/14/08 01:40:41 PMAge 64, OH
            Young man you have missed the point of the story of the sheep and the goats. No one is saved by works. The difference between the sheep and the goats was that the sheep did not consider themselves worthy for reward so were surprised when the King said, 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'-- It is those BLESSED BY MY FATHER THAT ARE TOLD TO TAKE THEIR INHERITANCE. Those who trust god to save them will be blessed with the inheritance and the goats who trust in their works will be told 'go away i never knew you. the goats thought themselves worthy of reward so were not. the sheep thought that they were NOT WORTHY and so were given reward. it is the story of Cain and Abel all over again. Those who think they are worthy by what they do are lost and not accepted by God. Those who depend on the Lord to save them will be saved by Him. I depend on the Lord Jesus Christ to save me and i depend on no one or nothing else to save me. Are you saying that Jesus is not able to save. Or are you saying that Jesus is not willing to save those who turn fully to Him to be saved. Lou
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            1. To be continued?
              Posted On: 01/19/08 11:36:50 PMAge 17, TX
              I would love to further discuss these things with all of you guys but I think the discussion is growing so big that we are in need of a new and better forum. That way we could stay in touch & get to know each other, as well as continue the dicussion.(Just an idea) If any of you guys are interested please E-mail me at Anarion888@gmail.com
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  9. Which Jesus?
    Posted On: 01/04/08 05:48:03 PMAge 56, NE
    So which Jesus is it that the Mormons love? Is it the one found in the Bible? If you've done the research then you know the answer. So why would you want to assume that their theology is good enough in this area? A false Christ saves nobody.
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    1. RE: Which Jesus?
      Posted On: 01/05/08 04:41:02 AMAge 19, CA
      I think it is very dangerous to say, "All Mormons love a Jesus who is ______ (fill in the blank)," since this assumes that all Mormons believe exactly the same things about Christ. While there may be much more uniform doctrine in the LDS Church than in your typical Protestant church, my experience is this is not the case. I've spoken with multiple Mormons in their late teens and early twenties, a couple Mormon elders in Utah, and other Mormons of various backgrounds and age groups. I can't say without reasonable doubt that they all are saved, but I can direct you to a verse my friend above pointed out. Matthew 7 suggests that to discover someone's master, we should look at what they do. I also want to probe a little into what you mean by theology that is "good enough." What is the bare minimum that one must believe, in your mind, for one to be saved?
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      1. TAKE THE ROAD OF TRUTH
        Posted On: 01/08/08 11:03:52 PMAge 64, OH
        Mormon doctrine is a road to hell. That does not mean that everyone that starts on that road will end up in hell. Maybe they will not follow the group, but turn and repent to the One true God in their heart. But if you wanted to go to New York City from Cleveland would you follow the sign to Chicago and hope to take a wrong turn which is really right to end up in New York. No you would turn towards New York in the first place. How many people on the road to hell do you think would end up taking a wrong turn which is really right to end up in heaven. Any man who follows men will be lost. Any man who follows men must confess there sin and repent and turn and follow God Almighty. If the Book of Mormon is all lies why would anyone follow lies. Jesus is The Truth and any man who truly searches for Truth will find Him. Lou
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      2. IT IS NOT WHAT BUT WHO
        Posted On: 01/08/08 10:52:56 PMAge 64, OH
        It is not what we believe that saves us. It is WHO we trust to save us. No doctrine can save but only Jesus can save. We must call upon the One and Only true God to be saved. Lou
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  10. The Mormon Jesus is not the biblical Jesus
    Posted On: 01/04/08 01:41:57 PMAge 53, WA
    Bottom line: The Mormon Jesus is not the biblical Jesus. According to Mormon theology Jesus existed as a created spirit-being, along with his spirit-brother, Lucifer. God (literally the man Adam, who became a god) had literal, physical sex with Mary and through this physical union she conceived the Mormon Jesus. Mormons believe in this Jesus. Christians don't.
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    1. RE: The Mormon Jesus is not the biblical Jesus
      Posted On: 01/05/08 04:55:59 AMAge 19, CA
      My statement was not that Mormons believe everything we believe about Jesus. They absolutely have very different ideas about Jesus' beginnings. However, does that mean that those who love God can't love and serve Him as much as any Christian does? Where are we told that we need to know Jesus' background perfectly in order to serve Him? If you could, take out your Bible and open it to Matthew 25. Read verses 31-46 (I'd copy and paste it, but it's a good amount of text). Jesus is telling a parable here about judgment, and notice that the people aren't quizzed on the finer points of systematic theology. They don't have to beat Peter in a game of Bible trivia. They are judged by the actions which flowed from their faith. Yes, Mormons believe a lot of things which, frankly, sound kind of kooky. But that's not what saves.
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      1. Do not be deceived
        Posted On: 05/28/08 01:33:02 PMAge 29, MD
        "But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough."--2 Corinthians 11:3,4 Please don't fall into the same deceptive kind of thinking as the apostle Paul illustrated here. The Mormons believe in a different Jesus, one that is made up and therefore without the power to save them.
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      2. PEARL OF GREAT PRICE
        Posted On: 01/08/08 11:39:58 PMAge 64, OH
        Can a man love God and not love the truth. For God is the Truth. Can a man love the Truth and not sell everything he has to buy the whole field and dig up the whole field to find the Pearl of Great Price. Jesus is called the Pearl of great price for a reason. He is not free but will cost the person everything, even their whole life. No man who looks for truth will find a lie. Any man who follows men will be lost.
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You Hypocrites!
Posted On: 01/03/08 09:39:41 PM Age 17, TX
Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men" -Matthew 15:7-9 He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. -Matthew 12:30-32 While I hope these scriptures make sense to the critics here, I could point out many places where the critics of this article contradicted the scripture they stand behind. One might guess that Joel Osteen searches his heart because he knows that it is supposed to be pure and righteouss. And he does not judge the mormons because he knows only God can know the heart of a man. Many here, I think, look to technicalities and formulas for salvation when it is really Jesus himself who searches the heart of a man, and decides who will be saved and who will not. If you want me to back up what I say with the Bible, E-mail me and I will do so. How can a man claim to know God's mind? I think there's more to God than your teachings, especially considering many of them are not supported by scripture, but rather twisted and formulated to fit a certain mold.
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  1. Did I mislead you?
    Posted On: 01/06/08 01:39:42 PMAge 47, MO
    Friend: I don't know you from your log in sign of age 17 Tx but I think I have to take some of the blame for your misunderstandings. I say this because you may have misunderstood some of my previous posts. I have been ranting lately about people idolizing scripture and about people following a theological construct to interpret scripture; ie: Calvinism, Arminianism, JW, Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. My main points were that the TRUTH is found only in Christ instead of a system of interpretation. Therefore, we must allow the HS to guide us. Otherwise we do interpret scripture errantly, and yes, Osteen is wrong, Mormonism is wrong, etc. There are absolute right and absolute wrong but our life is a life of faith. When we are found IN Christ, we are saved. So yes, having the correct theology will not save us, having a profession of faith will not save us, and truly only Christ knows who is saved. Hope this helps. John
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    1. Thankyou John, and the rest of you for your feedback
      Posted On: 01/13/08 12:23:21 AMAge 17, TX
      I want you guys to know that I do not support Mormon teaching. (I am not even fully aware of what they believe but have heard from my Dad that they have alot of crazy theology) On the other hand, I also do not support the claim that anyone who is under the Mormon label is not saved; Just as I do not believe that everyone who is under the Baptist label is saved. So, as far as I can tell, I agree with your point of view, John. Pastor Osteen did not condemn the Mormons because he knows only God can judge their hearts. I actually just visited his church for the first time today and found most of his teachings to be Biblically supported. Many people just don't realize it because they're so caught up in their own doctrines; whether they be Mormons or Baptists. If I may re-quote Mr. Osteen from the interview posted above: "I probably don't get hung up in them because I haven't really studied them or thought about them. And you know, I just try to let God be the judge of that. I mean, I don't know. I certainly can't say that I agree with everything that I've heard about it, but from what I've heard from Mitt, when he says that Christ is his savior, to me that's a common bond." While he may be somewhat ignorant of the Mormon teachings, Osteen, I do not think is a false preacher. How did Jesus say you'd identify false prophets? by their fruit.. How can a good tree produce bad fruit, or a bad tree produce good fruit? Now, I am not one to judge Osteen's heart, just as he is not the one to judge the Mormon's. But from my limited perception and judgement, I have deemed that Joel Osteen has produced the fruits of the spirit far better than almost any pastor I have ever seen. And that is why people flock to him as a spiritual leader.
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  2. JOHN THE BAPTIST CALLED THE PHARISEES A BROOD OF VIPERS
    Posted On: 01/05/08 11:00:36 AMAge 64, OH
    John the baptist was a mere man and what did he say to the pharisees. Matthew 3:7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.- Was John a hypocrite also. not all the pharisees were lost. But their teachings were from the pits of hell. Anyone who wanted to be saved needed to denounce their teachings and follow Jesus Christ. The same is true of the teachings of the Mormons; for Joel Osteen to have the audience of the whole nation and then not denounce the false teachings of the Mormons is an evil deed. Who ever is ashamed of Christ, Christ says he will be ashamed of them. And what of the teachings of Osteen himself; they are also false. For part of the Truth is not the truth. It is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and anything short of that is a lie. Lou
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  3. Reply to "You Hypocrites"
    Posted On: 01/05/08 09:06:04 AMAge 44, TX
    You talk about the fact that only God knows people's hearts. While this is true, the Jesus of the Mormons is a totally different Jesus, who is just a "good man," and one of the prophets, but not their Savior. The Mormons believe that we can become gods and godesses, and have a completely different belief system than what the Bible. This is not "judging people based on formulas;" these people are stating the truth. The Jesus of Mormonism is completely different than the Jesus of the Bible.
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  4. I am not at all surprised.
    Posted On: 01/05/08 02:39:03 AMAge 56, MD
    I feel sorry for Joel and His church, they don't have a clue as to how far off track they are. I am glad I Pastor a small church and you can be sure everyone in my church will know what Mormons believe and why they must be witnessed to as well. Joel gets these opportunities to be a witness and he runs for cover every time. Rick Warren, Robert Shuller and Joel Osten are the three Musketeers of the PC church of America. God help us if people continue to believe their sales pitch as gospel.
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Link to Interview
Posted On: 01/03/08 09:17:06 PM Age 20, CA
Here is the link for that interview: http://youtube.com/watch?v=sq9XXSLm120
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As an ex-Mormon I am Greatly Alarmed
Posted On: 01/03/08 07:57:05 PM Age 46, KS
I was a devout Mormon for 26 years before learning the truth and coming to the real Jesus for salvation. I've been in ministry to reach Mormons with biblical truth for the last 7 years and it pains me when well-known leaders within the Christian community try to be to be SO loving and inclusive that they are iterally "loving" the lost to death; spiritual death. It is almost unfathomable that so many preachers and teachers in Christian ministries and schools are so undiscerning and foolish as to be dangerous! I invite you to read my testimony of leaving Mormonism at equippingchristians.org. There are also some articles explaining why Mitt Romney's Mormonism should be alarming to Christians.
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  1. Defending the Faith
    Posted On: 01/06/08 08:12:21 PMAge 64, OR
    You are so right! The evolving liberal theology which has crept into the Christian chruch is an invasion by secular humanistist (wolves in sheeps clothing) entering amongst the sheep to devour and destroy...at the least confuse and separate from true believers. As sincere Christians (followers of Christ) Christians are to defend the faith, not join with apostatsy and run amuck ignorant of the Scriptures they claim to believe in. Those apostate believers are more religious ecumenicalists than true Christians. We are to impart Acts 17:11 and be as a Berean and search the Scriptures ourselves to prove them to be true. What CINO believers (Christian In Name Only) do today to have become "man-followers" and not followers of Christ Jesus (God). Apostate teachers like: Joel Osteens, Rick Warren, Brian McLaren, etc. do NOT apply Scriptures into their teachings but have become "church growth" gurus with their personal get rich quick schemes. There's no doubt in my mind that after many, many years of observing the shifting sands of Christianity, that 90-95% of professed Christians are NOT authentic Christians but simply "country club" Christians - religious socialists. They will be left behind when Jesus comes to catch up the true Church.
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  2. Media need to be educated
    Posted On: 01/03/08 11:55:00 PMAge 65, CA
    I have sent plenty of information to Sean Hennety (Fox News) to Ann Coulter, to Al ranteal and Larry Elder from KABC Radio 790 am These people are constantly praising Romney and they constantly tell their orience that if they hear another person attacking Romney because of his religion...well they are going to get it. Has anyone have sent any information about what the man made religion mormonism is really all about? to these people. Dan
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Question About Mennonites ????
Posted On: 01/03/08 05:20:56 PM Age 39, OH
I have heard about Joel Esteen , John Hagee, Joyce Meyer, and others,, Now would you please give me some good information on the Mennonities Please? My son was not raised to believe in them,, and was Pentecostal and now he is going around them. My future husband Pentecostal Preacher and he has heard alot and so has his Pastor Friend,, he has not gave me scripture but if you mention Mormons then you got to know about Mennonities. I will watch my email for your reply. God Bless Thank you In Christ~ Carol
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  1. History of The Church
    Posted On: 01/06/08 08:16:04 PMAge 64, OR
    If you want a great resource on the many various Christian "sects", then get a book called "The Pilgrim Church" by E.H. Broadbent (carried by The Berean Call). This book was out of publication until The Berean Call had it republished. It is an excellent history of the Christian Church and takes you through the history of the Church from the origin of the Church founded by the Apostles in the Book of Acts.
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  2. mormons/mennonites
    Posted On: 01/04/08 10:56:06 PMAge 29, TX
    Mennonites: I haven't seen anything that would point this denomination as a cult or anti-Christ religion. I would be interested in visiting my local Mennonite congregation, however they have chosen not to wear head coverings and plain dressing, which is disappointing to me, particularly since I do wear a head covering per 1 Cor 11 (if you research it thoroughly you will find some very interesting things.) Mormons: My great great great uncle was Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. His brother was my ggggrandfather. Although my grandmother was Mormon my Grandfather was a penacostal preacher. She didn't believe in leaving things 'to chance' though so my mom and her seven siblings were baptized both in the Mormon church as infants and in the other church subsequently. Knowing a great deal about Mormonism and having been close friends with several Mormons I do recognize that it is most certainly possible for a Mormon to be saved by the power of the Holy Spirit, as any of us are. However, the religion is too far from the Word of God for me to embrace it as part of the Christian church. Sarah in TX, homeschooling mom to four, wife to a soon to be preacher
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    1. MORMONS DO NOT BELIEVE THE BLOOD OF JESUS SAVES
      Posted On: 01/08/08 11:51:39 PMAge 64, OH
      Being baptized in the truth and also a lie is taking more than a chance. For anyone who trust in Jesus and something else only means that Jesus can not save you. See Pauls letter to the Galatians. We must trust in Jesus and no one else or nothing else to save us or Jesus can not save us. It is pretty simple: all a person has to do is call on God to show them the Truth. He then promises to do just that if we search for it. Lou
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    2. mormons saved????How????
      Posted On: 01/05/08 06:38:29 PMAge 56, OR
      I was a mormon. We never refered to ourselfs as Christians, but Mormons. Now that has been changed for the sake of the world. First Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer. There is no question on this We are and were all in pre-existence in heaven prior to being born. That is why so many children. They are up in heaven waithing to be born. The war in heaven between the angels of God and Lucifer. The black people bear the mark of Cain. They sat on the fence during the war in heaven to see which side would win. Jesus did his part, we must do the rest. We must attend all meetings, (that is church to you) pay full tithe which the bishop will know if you are not paying a full tithe. If you do these things, THEN and only THEN can you get a temple permit to bo baptism for the DEAD. The dead have a second chance, that is why there is baptizm for the dead. Those are just a few of the tings I was brought up with. The Cross is not accepted, nor the Bloog of Jesus talked about. Knowing this to be true, How can they be saved on this Jesus who was created? Do you know I lost my mother to the mormon belief, she died in her sins believeing this a Doctine of Devils.
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  3. Mennonites
    Posted On: 01/04/08 02:36:27 PMAge 61, MO
    If you are not a Mennonite by birth, you will find it hard to fit in. Their hospitality toward you will be better than most other denominations on the surface, but they will require you to adhere to their many extra Biblical requirements. One such requirement, for example, is that the women wear a head covering, and usually their dress codes are quite strict. They view these requirements as necessary for salvation. In general, they tend to play the part of the Holy Spirit for themselves and for everyone else. Their ideas about Biblical submission of women are warped, to the extent that a woman's place is only in the home, and even only in the kitchen. They are pacifists to a fault. Their ideas of Christian unity are based on their rules rather than on having the mind of Christ. These are just a few things that come to mind. I had spent approximately 6 years trying to interact with a group of Mennonites. I came away feeling like I had been trapped in a cult. George Cancilla
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    1. Not all Mennonites are as you describe...
      Posted On: 05/28/08 01:15:28 PMAge 29, MD
      I admit that I do not know a great deal about Mennonites, but I do know that not every group of Mennonites is as you have described here. My husband and I have always been warmly welcomed by those in the nearby Mennonite church that we have attended a few times in the past. No, not all of the women were forced to wear head coverings, nor were they all wearing dresses. True, some groups still adhere to such a 'dresscode', but even for those who do, I have observed that it is not always as you have made it out to be. For instance, there are quite a few Mennonite women who are now going to college. I know because I went to school with them. Please be careful when you paint with such a wide brush.
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  4. Mennonites
    Posted On: 01/03/08 11:35:33 PMAge 51, KS
    Some of the finest, most humble Christians I have known are Mennonites. Although there are different sects of Mennonites, I believe from what I know of the denomination that they are all Christian in their faith and profession of beliefs --believing in God as the Creator, Jesus as His Son and the only way to heaven, the Holy Spirit as part of the trinity--the triune Godhead who ministers gifts to His people. They believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, that Satan is real and active in this world, that Christ will return, and that the church is to function as Christ's body on earth. Sounds pretty Christian to me. I grew up in the Methodist church--my best friend was Mennonite & I spent many wonderful worship times in their church. In our church, there was a disaster and we sent money. In her church, the men would leave their work and go to physically help where there was a need. My father harvested wheat on Sunday if the wheat was ready and a storm threatened. You wouldn't find a Mennonite farmer in the field on Sunday no matter what. I came to respect and admire their dedication to God & His Word. We look on their simple dress (although many dress modernly now), lack of joining in the rat race and pacifism and think it is odd, but those are minor things. In the major things of the faith, they are brothers & sisters in Christ.
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    1. MENNONITES
      Posted On: 01/08/08 11:59:43 PMAge 64, OH
      I have found the Mennonite church to be like most others. Some true believers who are walking in some error and a lot of people who are following a set of rules to be saved. Lou
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