joking?
| Posted On: 12/08/07 10:40:41 AM |
Age 33, TN |
I'm kinda slow, but I think this was a joke on those opposing Mrs. Schluter?
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Rick Warren
| Posted On: 12/08/07 08:02:07 AM |
Age 28, TX |
I agree whole-heartly with Ingrid. I have some Christain brothers who got mad at me for lovingly point out some of the same issues I have with Rick Warren. He is very universalistic in his thinking. Much like Robert Schuller, his mentor. While I can't judge if Mr Warren is saved or not, he is well known by His fruits. Having Baruch Obama and Hillary Clinton speak at your church about AIDS, well, that tells you what his motives are. Sign that the Last Days are upon us. Come Lord Jesus!
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Are You Serious?
| Posted On: 12/07/07 11:01:52 PM |
Age 31, VA |
Ms. Schlueter & CWN... Are you seriously suggesting, by posting "Rick Warren Dissent" on your web site, that this article is legitimate journalism? Please help me--how can I be expected to read this column with any kind of intellectual appreciation when its premise is a bunch of "she said / he said" ambiguities? I feel like I'm at my 6th grade cafeteria table, listening to the latest gossip from the rumor mill, with all kinds of supposed third and fourth hand information.
If you want your readers to buy into charges of heresy, bribery, idolatry, immorality, blasphemy, and whatever else you're going to level at someone, you're going to have to at substantiate your claims with something more than anonymous, unverifable, fourth-generation, supposed whispers in cyberspace. It's hardly believable. And because of it, I can't take anything you say seriously. How do I know you didn't just overhear this stuff somewhere else?
Seriously now, if you're going to go to bat with a highly successful, international author and speaker, it would be common sense to at least write with the same integrity that he does. For the moment, you've left me highly skeptical of your words, and a bit embarrased for the Christian Worldview Network, who chose to publish your piece. I suggest you invest less into spurious pontificating, and a bit more into your credibility.
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- Revelation
| Posted On: 12/08/07 08:07:54 PM | | Age 34, KS |
Thank you Brannon for reveling the truth about this article. I'm sure there will be some that claim your not really Brannon Howse, but some people always find some reason not to believe the truth. The Bible says they well be willingly ignorant of the truth. People have been disowned by their families because they won't follow the teachings of Rick Warren. Fact!!! We know a tree by the fruit it bears, Rick fruits are going to be reveled soon enough.
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- Totally True
| Posted On: 12/08/07 12:41:42 AM | | Age 38, TN |
This is Brannon Howse. I am the first person Ingrid is talking about. She did not use my name but I would not have cared if she did. I received an e-mail from Rick in Feb of 2006 that I forwarded to Ingrid and a few others. Rick sent me the e-mail after I wrote about him and 84 other Christian leaders that signed onto what I thought was a radical global warming plan funded by two radical foundations. The second person is Janet Folger and I only use her name because she publicly spoke about this on my radio program. I have seen the e-mail that Rick wrote her and it certainly looks like it is the real deal and really from him. Ingrid chose not to use our names but now that Janet and I have both talked about this on my national radio program, I thought I would post this here in order to defend Ingrid. She is not sloppy in her research. Ingrid received these two e-mails and has read them with her own eyes and checked the e-mail address from which they were sent. Ingrid was simply looking to protect us and not break confidence. Many reporters use unnamed sources. Some of the highest award-winning investigative journalist have used unnamed sources. Bob Woodward would be one of them. I hope this helps. Thanks. Brannon Howse
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Re: Rick Warren and Other Liberals Seek To Find Common Ground with Muslims. Do They Really Believe We Worship The Same God?
| Posted On: 12/07/07 05:31:50 PM |
Age 66, WA |
It Is depressing to see all the people who write, that we should be more tender and softer as we are talking about gray areas of the bible.
I have read the Bible several times and will continue reading it for the rest of my life. Nowhere do I find gray areas about doctrine.
God Is the same today,yesterday and tomorrow.
He Hates Sin, He Is A Forgiving God He Is The Only God.He Wants you to Love Him With All Your Heart And Soul.
Romans 12:1,2
God said Do Not Conform To This World.
Live A holy Life dedicated to God.
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Strange Article
| Posted On: 12/07/07 03:36:15 PM |
Age 41, MO |
I found the entire article above strange. If you have specific objections to Mr. Warrens published materials or his public conduct then provide specific objections. The vague references to emails sent to your friends by Mr. Warren seem out of place. Is it really any of your concern what Mr. Warren writes to your friends. If the entire correspondence can't be shown than i think it is improper for you to refer to private correspondence. This is by no means an endorsement of Mr. Warren or his AIDS conference. In fact I would say to all of the Feedback submitters if you have issues with Rick Warren write to him personally or go out to his church and confront his church directly. Why post your objections here?
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- objection
| Posted On: 12/08/07 08:23:00 AM | | Age 47, MO |
Friend: If I object to your post am I to seek you out in person? Just asking, because to me if your words are in public, such as a forum, a blog, or a speach, etc., then it is no longer a private matter. This is especially true for those in positions of leadership. We are not calling out Rick Warren, God will judge. We are taking his words to task in light of truth. John
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- Where are the specifics?
| Posted On: 01/29/08 02:03:40 AM | | Age 61, CA |
As I read through this, I have to ask where's the beef? so to speak.
There are a lot of innuendos and implications and an apocryphal story about somebody being disowned because they objected to the purpose driven methodology. Apparently, the big objection is that Pastor Warren has signed on to the global warming crowd and, if he were to preach on that as doctrine, I'd object too, but as far as I know, he hasn't, nor has he endorsed homosexuality as others have implied.
It's impossible to disagree with someone, who doesn't give specific facts, and that is what is lacking from those who so far have criticized Pastor Warren. If you can show us where he's expounding false doctrine, then you owe it to all of us to do so, and so far you've failed to do that.
So, specifically, what has he said or wrote that either contradicts scripture or promotes a false gospel?
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same old song and dance
| Posted On: 12/07/07 12:59:15 PM |
Age 30, MN |
Well same old song and dance on this website. I am so sick of homosexuality being called out constantly in the american church and being made the deal breaker sin. Personally I feel that homosexuality is not gods ideal, but why do we constantly finger one specific sin group and villinize them. You ask pastors why they preach on this so much and they'll say we are just being biblical. Hmmm the number one talked about sin in the bible is actually gluttony so if they are just being biblical how come you never see them preach about gluttony???? I'll tell you why because its easier to preach about a sin that know one in your congregation is guilty of because lets face it the american church has alienated most homosexuals so you will never find one in the church, and that breaks my heart that the church has alienated anyone. We live in the most disgustonly gluttoness country in the world. American obesity and heart disese is on the rise, child diabtes is staggering yet gluttony the number one sin talked about in the bible is never mentioned. We would rather isolate and villinize one particular sin group to make us feel more rightous. If you are going to talk about one certain sin you need to talk about them all. I hope homosexuals were welcomed in rick warrens church because like all sinners, and I got news for you folks thats all of us, everyone that means everyone is welcome in gods house. The biggest problem in the american church is not rick warren its the vast number of hipocritical people we have on christain telivision, radio, and the internet. Lets try and fix this people. God Bless.
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- why homosexuality
| Posted On: 12/08/07 08:36:45 AM | | Age 47, MO |
Friend: You asked in regard to homosexuality, "why do we constantly finger one specific sin group and villinize them." I would like to answer if I may. This is mostly because homosexuality is no longer a hidden sin but a force to be reckoned with. It has an agenda to breakdown all traditional values of family, child rearing, decency, and self control. No other sin is vying for recognition as normalicy and yet demand special protection from scrutiny. If homosexuality is recognized as normal then society will cease to exist- we become barbaric. I hope this helps your understanding, if you were truly seeking any. John
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- Didn't get my point
| Posted On: 12/08/07 08:22:15 PM | | Age 30, MN |
Friend I guess you didn't see my point, I am not a supporter of homosexuality I feel it is not gods ideal. The point I'm making is regardless if it is a "force to be reckoned with" it is not christain like or biblical to pick out one of the many sins written about in the bible and make this the deal breaker sin, as we have by villinizing and alienating one particular sin group. I'll remind you again of gluttony especially in this country. People in this world are dying everyday because of our gluttoness attitude towards things like world hunger. Thats why you don't villinize a specific sin group or as we are trying to do by legeslating sin. We are called to be christ like in ephesians when did Jesus ever try to get the goverment of his day to make certain sin illegal. What I got from this article is that homosexuals are not welcome in our churches, and the christains who believe they aren't welcome I feel very sorry for them and all I can do is pray. I got news, if anyone feels they are not welcome, then either are any of us and there is no argueing that point. I feel there are certain "christains" on tv, the radio, and the internet who are like the pharisees and high priests of jesus's day, but all we can do is follow Jesus's teaching. I have a question???? Knowing what we know of Jesus how would he handle a homosexual???? Think real hard about that before you answer. God Bless.
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Fortress Christianity
| Posted On: 12/07/07 11:52:27 AM |
Age 47, FL |
Among those truly passionate about their relationship with Jesus, I find two definable camps. First, there is what I call fortress Christians. You are a fortress Christian if you make a real effort to seperate yourself out of the world in as many ways as possible. You profess the intention of protecting yourself and your children from all influences of the world. You homeschool, you school at the Christian academy, you do not befriend any but Christians. The second camp is the warrior Christian. This Christian characterized by his willingness to carry out the great commission. He is faithful within his church, he studies scripture, receives discipleship, is edified by the local body of Christ. The warrior strengthens himself by staying in and near his church, he puts on the full Armor of God, with the word as his sword, he ventures out into the world, into the secular arena and fights the fight, represents Christ as best he can as a man.
There is danger in being a warrior for Christ, you must walk the edge of the cliff, below a lake of fire. You may fall, some have. But where is your faith? Your faith is the rope that connects you back to the fortress. All the growth of the church is out on the edge.
I haven't formed an opinion on Rick Warren. I love his Purpose book. I'm faint at what he is doing with AIDS, I think he is way out over the edge. But the Bible says that once we receive the Holy Spirit, that God will not let us out of his grip. God created the light, he created darkness, he creates peace and created evil. He has domain over all. What you see as evil, God may mean for good.
So before casting stones at Rick Warren, maybe you should ask God to measure you first. Are you a warrior for Christ? or do you cower behind the walls, cloaked in piety, ripping those of us willing to fight for souls?
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- fortress christianty
| Posted On: 12/07/07 08:10:54 PM | | Age 51, CA |
You are so wrong, God is not the creator of evil. Man with his free will given by God is the creator of all that is evil. God is sinless so therefore can't create evil. He can give us over to evil (satan) as in Job. I will stand for truth and not give into false teachers take your itchy ears away.
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- Who's wrong? Mayhaps you?
| Posted On: 12/08/07 01:32:07 AM | | Age 52, CA |
I wonder if you shouldn't re-think your idea that man and his free will "created" evil. Evil found its genesis in Genesis (and elsewhere) in the guise of an anointed cherub named Lucifer. Also, Job was not given over to Satan; however, God did allow Satan to try Job to prove to Satan that Job's faith was unwavering. Splitting hairs? You betcha! Doctrinal error comes frequently upon the heels of sloppiness. Lord knows how often I bungle it. Wouldn't be too surprised if someone nit-picks this. Blessings.
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- Check Your Facts
| Posted On: 12/11/07 07:15:49 AM | | Age 33, FL |
If you believe that the Bible is the inerrant and perfect Word of God, then you must accept that God Himself claims to have created evil. In fact, that phrase in the post you are questioning is a direct quote of Isaiah 45:7, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Please be certain of what you are saying before you try to correct someone else, especially when he is actually using the Bible as his platform. Thx!
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- Evil in Isaiah 45:7
| Posted On: 12/11/07 03:09:30 PM | | Age 61, MO |
Lest we be confronted with some contradiction, I looked up "evil" in the concordance and the Hebrew translates it as "calamity" or physical destruction such as a tornado, etc. This "evil" is not a moral evil. God is in no way pictured in Scripture as the author of sin. George Cancilla
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- Strong's
| Posted On: 12/12/07 08:30:37 AM | | Age 33, FL |
George,
My Strong's seems to imply that it could be many different things:
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]
I think that extrapolating out just the physical natural disasters could be detrimental to your position. Recognizing of course the the natural flow of the whole verse indicates contrasting positions in the clauses (light, dark & peace, evil) I would think that it would be more indicative that God creates a form of strife, especially in the realm of the political. Having said that, my caution was to the person who just basically said "You're wrong" without even recognizing that the first post was using a Biblical phrase to make his point and then responding with opinion and no source. The world hears enough "Because I say so", we need to be able to respond with more than that.
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- Twisted Scripture
| Posted On: 12/07/07 01:48:55 PM | | Age 42, AL |
The only thing that Mr. Warren is fighting for is his own selfish personal agenda. His trip to Syria, and lying about it is just the tip of the iceburg with this man. He spews out threats all the time to ministries that disagree with his liberal agenda. Thousands have been forced out of churches they grew up in when they would not bow to this Laodician theology. It's a sad day when defending the true faith from false teaching is considered a bad thing. You can thank Mr. Warren and his liberal followers for that also.
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- Rick Warren
| Posted On: 12/07/07 01:48:23 PM | | Age 61, MO |
It sounds like you are calling Ingrid a "closet" Christian, simply because she chooses to homeschool, etc. I consider her to be very wise in so doing, and a "warrior" as well. Perhaps you are not familiar with the fact that Ingrid has had a long running Christian blog site called "Slice of Laodecia" and has hosted talk radio. She has written many articles for publication. If this isn't sticking one's neck out for Christ, then I don't know what is. Ingrid is not afraid to call a spade a spade, which although it may seem harsh, is far better than some soft sell diplomacy that doesn't offend. Keep up the good work, Ingrid. George Cancilla
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- Warrior or Fortress?
| Posted On: 12/07/07 01:11:15 PM | | Age 46, MN |
I think the gentlemens comment that if you homeschool your kids etc that you are NOT a warrior ir disengenious at best. I don't send my kids to school to evangelize per se, I send them to learn!! I (me myself) can walk out toward the edge but my kids are no match in 3rd grade to discuss evolution with a 4 year college dregreed teacher.
I also do not believe that you cannot fallout of Gods grip. I've known many backslidden Christians (some now homosexuals)who no longer have any interest in walking with God. Are you telling me that they are going to die and go to heaven with unrepentant sin and a total of rejection of what they knoew? And no, I don't buy the Baptist line that "they never were saved in the 1st place". If that is the one size fits all answer then why doesn the Scripture talkk about backslidding?
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Rick Warren
| Posted On: 12/07/07 11:45:02 AM |
Age 74, MN |
When I was first introduced to Warren's book, The Purpose Drive Life, many people were enthusiastic about it in the group that was going to have a study on it. In fact, I thought it sounded pretty good. However, as our weekly meetings went on, I began to wonder about some things. At our last meeting, we were asked to give a brief statement about what the book covered. I had to say that the first sentence in the whole book was the best: "It's not about you." That much of it is absolutely true. As we have followed Warren's progress, we have seen him move farther and farther away from the principle that God is the one it is all about, not man. At this point I have become convinced that Rick Warren is believing his own publicity--a bad stance for a man who wants to teach the Bible. He is moving further and further away from the solid foundation of the Word of God, and is "leaning unto his own understanding" as in Proverbs 3:5.
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Interesting
| Posted On: 12/07/07 10:01:15 AM |
Age 26, IL |
I did not know that Rick Warren had become so defensive. The last few times I had heard form him, it seemed like he was open to discusion about his ideas. I am sorry to see that he has taken a "his way or no way" approch.
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