Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 08:56:45 AM |
Age 48, MS |
Todd, you seem to have put your finger on something that has been bothering me for several years. Most of the stuff played on Christian comtemporary radio is this fluffy stuff, however there are a few exceptions and I find myself gravitating to them. Prime example of this: Newsboys. They sing about things I recognize from God's word. I thought this morning that they had the ultimate and unending supply of song material.
As in all things, Christians need to have their discernment switch in the 'on' posistion at all times.
best regards,
Micah Hendry
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 08:07:17 AM |
Age 54, MN |
Greetings Todd,
The music is reflecting the message in the pulpit. Too many pastors are more concerned with John Lennon's "All you need is love" than John 3:16.
I am also concerned with Christian women’s studies that want to create a more intimate love relationship with the savior.
Many men are uneasy about becoming intimate with Jesus.
The word has become feminized both in music and message. There is nothing wrong with God's plan for women. However, we need a balance of truth and love.
I don't think men are reacting well to the love song approach. I play on two worship bands. I can see it.
The one-dimensional message ignores God's design for men.
If men had a choice they would beat on kettle drums, blow shofars and sing like warriors. We need balance.
Not all men do well with a strict diet of "palms up", submissive love song worship. It is my opinion, and many men agree, that Jesus was no wimp. They respond better to "taking the pain" of the cross - like a man.
They want to sing like men as well.
I recall a Promise Keepers event in Minneapolis where McCartney asked the men in the stadium to honor pastors as he called them to the front of the stage. As they filed down the aisles a thunderous roar of support and encouragement broke out that nearly blew the top off the Hump dome. And it grew stronger and Godlier as the men reached the stage.
McCartney was prowling the stage like a bull, throwing chairs, exhorting the men in the seats and praising the pastors. It was a two way anointing, like a volcanic tractor beam to/from the heavens.
It wasn't misogynist chest-beating. It was men roaring like Godly lions in encouragement, exhortation and strength.
We need men to roar in church too.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 07:43:27 AM |
Age 54, AZ |
Todd, I totally agree with you. Sometimes the music at church is really embarrassing ! And why are the traditional hymns of the Church being pushed aside for modern songs many of which have no substance at all.
There are exceptions to this, like the great song "In Christ Alone". I wish modern Christian songwriters would write more like that.
I don't find comfort in mushy songs, but rather in singing about how I can stand on Christ the Solid Rock !
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 06:37:27 AM |
Age 61, CO |
Good article. I definitely agree. Just wanted to make a few observations about the so called "agage" love thingy, so often repeated like an urban legend.
Words for Love in the New Testament - agapao versus phileo.
You will constantly hear scholarly types tell us that agape means God's unconditional love, while phileo means a friendship type of love.
Well, let's take a closer look at how God uses these two words and see if there is really something to what they say or not.
John 3:16 "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son..." The verb used here is form of 'agape', so we are told it always means a God-type unconditional love. OK, but what do we then do with these verses using the same verb?
John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men LOVED darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." Agapao
John 12:42-43 "they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: For they LOVED the praise of men more than the praise of God." Agapao
Luke 6:32 "for sinners LOVE those that LOVE them." Agapao
2 Timothy 4:10 "For Demas hath forsaken me, having LOVED this present world..." Agapao
2 Peter 2:15 "Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam to son of Bosor, who LOVED the wages of unrighteousness." Agapao
1 John 2:15 "If any man LOVE the world, the love of the Father is not in him." Agapao
It should be abundantly clear that the scholar who insists the word 'agape' means an unconditional, God-type love has no idea what he is talking about.
Well, what about phileo then? Does it always mean a friendship type of love and not the love of God?
John 16:27 "For the Father himself LOVETH you, because ye have LOVED me, and have believed that I came out from God." Phileo
Revelation 3:19 "As many as I LOVE, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent." Phileo
1 Corinthians 16:22 "If any man LOVE not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." Phileo
Well, then do these two words actually mean the same thing? Let's compare some Scriptures.
Matthew 23:6 "LOVE the uppermost rooms at feasts" Phileo
Luke 11:43 " ye LOVE the uppermost seats in the synagogues" Agapao
John 5:20 "the Father LOVETH the Son" Phileo
John 10:17 "therefore doth my Father LOVE me" Agapao
Titus 2:4 "women to be sober, to LOVE their husbands..." Phileo
Ephesians 5:28 "So ought men to LOVE their wives..." Agapao
Hebrews 13:1 "Let brotherly LOVE continue" Phileo
1 Peter 2:17 "LOVE the brotherhood" Agapao
If it be asked: "Then why did God use two different Greek words (agapao and phileo) to often mean the same thing?", then we answer that God used not just two but six different Hebrew words in the Old Testament to refer to love.
Perhaps a bit more next on the word "charity".
Will Kinney
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 06:28:25 AM |
Age 40, MN |
I agree that contemporary Christian music is almost a romantic love for God. However, is it wrong to want a little more modern melody than centuries past? I recently attended a church where the pastor said any music played with guitars or drums is a snare from the devil. Then they followed it up with a song with as much spiritual depth as today's music. Did God stop blessing hymns and music after the 1940's? I don't think so. Are today's musicians guilty of being insincere? Again, I don't think so... though they may need more depth. One of the bands you support on your website,Todd is Go Fish. Have you listened to their lyrics? Listen to "The Ten Commandment Boogie","My Very Own Church", and others. I understand these are kid songs, but many are used in churches across the country. Some might even say they are being disrespectful to God by making light of his work. Please don't discount all modern music because they aren't deep. I'm sure God enjoys the worship he receives when they are used. These songs are also played on radio stations across the country. I think it's a much better alternative than most of the music out there. Could they be better?--Absolutely! Should they be thrown out the door?--I don't think so.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 05:11:12 AM |
Age 25, GA |
I sure could have used this article two weeks ago when I had a me against 19 seminary students all out brawl over who God loves and simultaneously hates, and what that love means!
Love is patient, love is kind, love doesn't force its own way. This love runs out, see Nahum 1, and John 5:42. It's important to note that God hates the evildoer and as Jonathan Edwards said, the only thing keeping the sinner in the hand of an angry God is His longsuffering.
One correction, Mr. Mr. Friel. The 1611 AV translated Agape as love in most places, a good one to check is John 3:16, but only in some occurences did they translate it as Charity (1 Cor 13 is probably the best example). My best guess on why they did this...they couldn't reconcile how God could both love the world and hate the sinner. I'm not sure I can either, because the love that God has for the world is not as strong as the hatred for lawbreakers, but thankfully the love He has for the redeemed is greater than that hatred.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 02:41:06 AM |
Age 49, IN |
Todd, youv'e put into words what I have been thinking for a long time. Many of the contemporary songs that we sing are theologically shallow and emotionally sappy. I worry that the youth in our churches haven't been raised with the Hymns of the faith.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 01:54:51 AM |
Age 30, GA |
Bro Todd, I just wanted to say that you only quoted part of the song from Big Daddy Weave.
Here it is...
I never wanna leave I wanna stay in your warm embrace, basking in the glory shining from your face. Everytime I get another glimpse of your heart I realize it's true, that you are, marvelous God and I am so in love with you!"
And another part of the same song,
"Wrapped in Your mercy I want to live and never leave. I am held by how humble, yet overwhelmed by Your majesty. Captured by grace and now I’m finding I am free. You are marvelous God and knowing You is everything."
Yes, it talks about being wrapped in His Embrace, but if you read the rest of it, it is clearly showing God's majesty and awesomeness.
It is not an eros love, but a pure love for the Father because of Who He Is.
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 06:32:11 PM | | Age 43, LA |
No it's not an eros love. It is a sappy, syrupy emotionally driven, biblically void piece focused, as usual on ME! God is so in love with me, I feel so loved in your embrace, how do you love ME so much. No matter that there is nothing remotely similar in the Bible about God embracing us in any way. He said He would never leave us nor forsake us through what? Tribulation and Chastisement that He has promised is ours for serving Him. God is given the image of one who is here for our needs and happiness. Just the opposite. We are here to suffer as He suffered.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 01:38:26 AM |
Age 22, CA |
I thought this was a joke but it's not, and so I am writing in response to it.
"Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me." Isaiah 49:15-16 NIV
compassion here is the word Racham which means: to love, love deeply, have mercy, be compassionate, have tender affection, have compassion. (from the Strongs Concordance)
God displaying that tender affection? He must be a "chick." Perhaps he should "man up."
Perhaps you missed Song of Solomon? Last time I checked it was a love story full of that "emotions based, warm and fuzzy kind of love." This is where Paul drew the image of Christ as a bridegroom to the church. Another example of this imagery being used is from Jesus in John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you." Here Jesus compares himself to the bridegroom. It is not an accident that Jesus or Paul referred back to Song of Solomon, nor that the Song of Solomon exists as a metaphor to God's relationship with his people.
I agree with you that there is more to spirituality than how emotionally loving our God is, but it is very important to one's theology and biblically founded. Also, having and displaying emotions is not something gender specific to women (we call them women, not chicks). Men are not more "manly" by hiding emotions or refraining from crying. Jesus wept, and he was very much a man.
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 11:18:49 AM | | Age 57, TX |
AMEN! I have thought for a while now...I would never waste my money on that silly stuff.... I do think it might be more serious than that because it mixes fleshly, emotional, temporal feelings with the sacred and eternal....this will not produce enduring fruit. This is also true for trendy emotional "let me make it relavent for today" sermons that are based on man's opinion rather than the Bible as well. NOTHING beats personal witness of God's miracle working power and the HOLY BIBLE.
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 10:13:34 AM | | Age 32, FL |
There is no call in the Scriptures for any individual believer to desire a physical sexual relationship with Jesus. This is the heart of the matter when dealing with romantic imagery as described in the article. The Church is the Bride, not any individual. Jesus is not coming to marry you, He is coming to retrieve His followers and to defeat His enemies. It is unnatural (and illogical) for any person to believe that a physical sexual relationship such as between a man and woman is what God intends for Jesus and His Church. This false imagery leads men to be uncomfortable because of our natural revulsion to homosexuality and it leads women to place unrealistic expectations on the men in their lives who can never be the perfect Man. Jesus doesn't Eros you, He Agapes and Phileos you.
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 08:25:42 AM | | Age 40, OH |
Bleh - I refuse to listen to most of that sappy contemporary stuff - it's just a bad copy of secular music.
I'm into gospel - something intense - if you want to love Jesus, do it through Praise.
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