Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 05:09:49 PM |
Age 38, AL |
I completely agree. As a man I often hear lyrics in a song and think "I can't say that stuff". Women can say how "in love" they are with Jesus and it seems more natural...man-woman kind of thing.BUT, Jesus is "King of Kings and Lord of lords" and this romantic view that some express of Jesus makes a lot of men uncomfortable and unable to participate in worship b/c they can't relate to the Jesus that these lyrics attempt to glorify. It also causes some of us to struggle with our own salvation b/c Satan will attack and tell you "see, none of the other men in the worship service had a problem calling Jesus 'lover of my soul', so you probably don't have the real thing". Maybe that's just a personal issue of mine. Do these lyrics cause men to have confusion about Jesus? Even further, do these lyrics lead women to think of Jesus as a lover? Shouldn't a man and woman's concept of a relationship with Jesus be somewhat parallel? Thanks for the article; it's good to know I am not alone.
Chase M. Black
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 05:03:39 PM |
Age 41, CANADA |
Whether you agree or disagree with Todd, you gotta love his directness. In this case, I do agree. I have to say amen and 2 thumbs up to this article.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 04:55:35 PM |
Age 46, VT |
Todd, You really need to be more clear and to the point with your opinions. [cough] Seriously, I could not agree with you more, sir. Thank you for this. My teenage daughter and I have been volleying on this topic recently. One afternoon, buoyed by your talk on this on [WOTM] radio, I passed along your remarks about a girl (Christian) singer. You would think that I had just renamed the color pink. Don't worry, Todd, I not only passed the opinion along, I [ducking] owned them first. Keep up the good work, and God bless you, brother. Thanks for serving our King.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 04:52:34 PM |
Age 59, CANADA |
I very much agree with you, Todd. I once heard a "worship" song sung by a young woman who swayed and sang, "Jesus, I long to kiss your lips..." Yuck! The other thing that annoys me is when the instruments are so loud that you can't hear one word--they could just as easily be singing praises to the evil one as to our King Jesus. I especially like Messianic Jewish (Christian) praise music--it is lively without being mushy or repetitive.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 04:49:55 PM |
Age 27, OK |
I cannot tell you how many times I've turned on the radio to hear love-sick Christian singing, "As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you..." or worse, "Your love is better than life..."
Oh wait. Those were biblical examples of worship songs. Psalm 42 and 63, respectively. Nevermind then.
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 09:57:36 AM | | Age 32, FL |
Yeah, we should NEVER sing songs that the very feminine King David wrote!
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 04:36:31 PM |
Age 55, TN |
The comparison of sacred and profane love goes back all the way to the Bible. Please see the Song of Solomon. Also, the Apostle Paul calls the church the Bride of Christ. He calls it a great mystery. I'm content to let it be that.
The tradition continued with such carols as "Tomorrow Shall Be My Dancing Day."
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 03:34:35 PM |
Age 20, MS |
The word limit prevents me from posting my full critique; however, here are a few thoughts.
Firstly, my critique has little to do with my own opinion on the matter. There are a number of praise and worship songs I object to being sung by a congregation, though for different reasons. My objection to this article is that the argument was presented poorly. Here are a few examples.
- “[W]e use “love” in romantic ways to sing about God.”
The implication of this statement is that this is a bad thing. However, your article provides no reasoning for -why- there is something wrong with this. Since the Bible makes frequent analogies of romantic love to describe God’s love for His people (cf. Ezekiel 16, Jeremiah 3, the entire book of Hosea, arguably the Song of Solomon, Isaiah 62:5, Revelation 19, Ephesians 5:22ff, etc.), the burden of proof is on you to illustrate why writing romantic love songs to God is objectionable; that is, what is the difference between what the Bible states and what songwriters illustrate with their lyrics?
- “[W]e have added other romantic phrases to our Christian music repertoire: hold me, embrace me, feel you, need you. This criticism is not new, in fact, it has existed since Godly men began endeavoring to sing anything but the Psalms.”
You did a little better with this one by providing the opinion of one other person who disagreed with romantic phrasing. However, just because John Wesley said something doesn’t make it true. Why should the reader agree with John Wesley’s opinion?
- “Christian men sing with such romantic longing and neediness it makes me want to scream, ‘Man up!’”
That interjection implies a rather stereotypical view of what manhood is. Is “romantic longing” not a manly emotion? I hope all married men romantically long for their wives, and (this part -is- my opinion on the subject) if marriage is an analogy for Christ and the Church, I hope all Christians do long for God in a very similar way.
- “Needy, emotional women continue to need more counseling, self help books and conferences where they can spread their wings and soar.”
- “Men simply are not showing up for church.”
It’s a bold move to present claims without attempting to corroborate them. I haven’t researched this matter, but perhaps you have. Could you provide examples of churches which use the type of songs you’re critiquing, perhaps some numbers of throaty-breathy-voiced women who purchase self-help books or frequent counselors, or statistics of male attendance over several years at such churches? Or a comparison of counseling/book purchases and church attendance at contemporary churches as compared to traditional churches? Otherwise, how is the reader to believe that these are in fact the consequences you suggest? How do I know that these phenomena have any connection to such songs?
Finally, I found this article through a discussion forum I frequent. If you would like to see the discussion pertaining to your writing or even participate, go to http://www.teddekker.com/index.php?&content=community&sub=board&com=board&brd=topic_224137__0#p6669506 I have some comments in that thread as well, but I think I said it all here.
In His hands,
~Zoe <><
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 02:27:10 PM | | Age 22, CANADA |
To who wrote the response on:
Posted On: 11/27/07 03:34:35 PM Age 20, MS
"Zoe"...
That was perfectly put!
Im impressed and agree completely.
(And youre only 20?)
I puposely have been looking at the age of the responses.. and as much that I do agree with this post, I agree with some of Todds opinion as well. Some songs come across to be a bit like Jesus is my boyfriend, in a, bad way. I think people need to be aware of
where the heart is and what way we mean it when we say it. For the current generation, I could see it being a bit twisted, which is a concern.
I suppose it would have to be the intention of the lyrics, written and sung. And I do agree with some woman getting abit breathy in songs.. (I could see how both can relate to secular movements)
Due to these and other secular movements, now in the church, I could see how people are getting to a point where these mindsets are created with the directions our worship and music is going. So I do agree in that sense. Especially for the men/woman role vs relationshp with Jesus concerning music.
Another gentlemen raised some ligitimate questions about how men and woman may think certain ways due to this type of love towards Jesus..
But as Tammy Trent puts it, "Im not listening". (to satans lies)
But for everything else, this person has nailed it!
Loved the comment~
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 10:01:19 AM | | Age 32, FL |
David Murrow wrote an excellent book on the over-feminization of the modern church in his book Why Men Hate Going To Church. Included in his work is an examination of music style and the attendance patterns of men. You can check out his site at www.churchformen.com
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 02:51:27 AM | | Age 50, TX |
I agree with most of what the author wrote. I think we have become too touchy/feely. No, I'm not a guy. I'm a grandmother.
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One of my favorite hymns:
THE SOLID ROCK
1. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' Name.
CHORUS: On Christ the Solid Rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand.
2. When darkness seems to hide his face, I rest on his unchanging grace; In ev'ry high and stormy gale, my anchor holds within the veil.
CHORUS: On Christ the Solid Rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand.
3. His oath, his covenant, his blood support me in the whelming flood; when all around my soul gives way, He then is all my hope and stay.
CHORUS: On Christ the Solid Rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand.
4. When he shall come with trumpet sound, Oh, may I then in Him be found; Dressed in His righteousness alone, Faultless to stand before the throne.
CHORUS: On Christ the Solid Rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand.
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Music: I, IV, V and V7 chords only that I can see from a quick glimpse. VERY simple musically. Very singable.
Lyrics: 13 words to the chorus. The four verses reference life experiences as well as spiritual truths found in several different Bible passages. Phrases that bring different biblical phrases to mind are used throughout the verses. I like that. It helps to reinforce truth.
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Culturally, I think that Christians are following the downward trend of the world's pop musical styles to our detriment.
However, I sense that this is a symptom... not the disease.
I have nearly stopped buying CCM. Too many times I have been sickened to buy something, bring it home and listen to it one time and realize that I will not listen to it again -- because it is cliche and predictable. There is not much depth. I feel like I've wasted another ten or fifteen dollars that could have been much better spent.
No, I'm not entirely against the simple love songs. But to have most of the worship music built around those kinds of songs??????
I think we can do better than that.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 03:31:26 PM |
Age 56, WI |
this is so true. only what do we as God fearing people do? we sit back and do nothing to change things. things are getting worse by the day and most of us go with the flow careful not to make waves
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 03:17:57 PM |
Age 48, IL |
Thank you so much for writing this! As a past church organist and union musician, I've been struggling to find a common ground for this soppy kind of music and the kind I was raised and educated in, and I needed someone who would actually write what I've been suspecting: There is no common ground! Thank you --Thank YOU!
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 12:04:38 PM |
Age 47, MO |
What is worse than silly love songs are the silly love songs that elevate the worshipper above Christ. For instance, the phrase ". . . and thought of me, above all." This particular song and much other so-called Christian music is tantamount to self-worship because of whom it glorifies "above all."
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- Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 10:36:51 PM | | Age 31, TX |
Is this the song you're talking about?
Above All by Michael W Smith
Above all powers
Above all kings
Above all nature
And all created things
Above all wisdom
And all the ways of man
You were here
Before the world began
Verse 2
Above all kingdoms
Above all thrones
Above all wonders
The world has ever known
Above all wealth
And treasures of the earth
There's no way to measure
What You're worth
CHORUS
Crucified
Laid behind a stone
You lived to die
Rejected and alone
Like a rose
Trampled on the ground
You took the fall
And thought of me
Above all
I can see how one would be uncertain about "..and thought of me, above all," but most of this song states how Jesus is above all, talks about His work on the cross, and to top it off, He thought of us above His comfort, safety, and security, which is very much true.
How much different is it from, "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son."
I didn't expect so many of the comments I've been reading. I'll post more of my response to the article in another post, but in my life I have very much needed a God who is near me and will hug me. This should never lessen the need for Him to be righteous and holy and awesome as well. I respect and revere Him greatly. I can't imagine the burning white light of His holiness. How much more astounding the nearness and reality of His tender love.
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