Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/02/07 06:05:00 PM |
Age 43, NH |
I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Burney's assessment in this article. I have attended a conservative Baptist church in NE for 16 years; in the last 5 years we have moved to a seeker-sensitive model. Over and over, we've used study materials from seeker friendly curriculum authored by Rick Warren (Saddleback Church in California) and Bill Hybels.
Initially, I supported this change, however, in practice I found it empty and shallow. The church growth model is like eating spiritual baby food at every meal. I don't even need to bring my Bible to church anymore because we’re often told we don’t need to turn to the sermon text in our Bibles! I read through the book of Acts regarding the early church and what I found did not match at all with what I was witnessing in my own church.
I'm curious to see if & how my leadership responds to this confession by Bill Hybels.
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Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/01/07 11:12:02 PM |
Age 24, IN |
It is clear that many of the "church growth guru's" have made a huge mistake in telling us to focus more on the methods than the message. I also think it is clear that the emergant church is a logical outgrowth of some in this movment. However I also think that we cant throw church growth out the window all together. God has called us as the church to reach the lost. While we cannot change the message found in scripture, we do have some liberty when it comes to our methods. I think that we can share the gospel in a biblically sound way and still use modern methods of outreach. So manny people seem to think it has to be eather fundamentalism or church growth. WEll I consider myself to be a fundamentalist when it comes to theology and I think that there is no room for compramise when it comes to the Word of God, But when it comes to methods by which we convey the message as long as the method does not violate scripture then I believe that we can reasonably use it to have an impact on our community for the cause of Christ. There is no reason that we have to choos between being doctrinally sound and culturally relavent, so long as our doctrin is more important to us than our culture.
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Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/01/07 10:40:21 AM |
Age 47, AR |
I am more than a little disappointed by both the arrogance and superficiality that came through to me in the author's attempt to be constructively critical of the Willow Creek self-analysis. The "seeker-sensitive" movement grew out of an growing awareness that the "traditional" church in America was failing to reach its own or the up and coming generation. That movement made mistakes, no doubt, but every generation of the church including the first one described in the NT made mistakes. Thank God, He graciously causes His kingdom to advance in spite of sometimes making use of those mistakes (believe it or not a whole lot of good fruit has come out of the "seeker-sensitive" movement!). Every generation of Church leadership ought to reflect critically on where it has been so that it can make the necessary adjustments to be more fruitful and effective in the future.
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- wrong
| Posted On: 01/23/08 12:26:59 AM | | Age 54, TX |
i disagree the church with true doctrine of salvation has alway's reached every generation for jesus. man has changed the salvation doctrine and seekersensitive or being relevant has become defined as condoning the carnal lifsyles of mankind. there is a right way to heaven and it is not just going to a mega church and never being convicted by the spirit of God
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Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/01/07 08:54:15 AM |
Age 41, OH |
Willow Creek was the church that welcomed me back into fellowship after my traditional church became woefully irrelevant in my life. I have been serving in the local church in the 17 years since my first connection with Willow Creek. The teaching at Willow Creek is Biblical and constantly pulls me further into the Word and into prayer. When I had occasion to meet Bill Hybels he had one question for me (as I gushed appreciation for the impact of Willow Creek on my life), "Are you growing?" I disagree wholeheartedly that the focus of this ministry is sheer numbers, but rather changed lives for Christ. If God has brought redirection to Willow Creek, or any part of the Body of Christ, are we not better served to humbly cheer one another on toward following God's new path vs. bashing the life's work of any individual or group. In testing the "fruit" of Willow Creek, I believe you will find thousands who have received Christ as their Savior and have started genuine, growing relationships with the Lord. Furthermore, they are changed people who would not likely ever have visited a church that stopped listening to those outside the family of God. I find this article narrow-minded and sad. Are there not better ways to exhort the Body of Christ? Please reconsider your haphazard comments. I am praying for unity, not more fractures, for the Bride of Christ.
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- Re: Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/05/07 12:27:40 PM | | Age 62, CA |
I am responding to the WC member who has been changed by their experience at WC. There will always be found those who are truly seeking God in any church who will be after the things of God. My question is: Are these people NT, Kingdom of God believers? Jesus told His disciples go preaching the Kingdom of God is at hand and demonstrate that Kingdom by healing the sick, cleansing the leper, raising the dead, and casting out demons. If all the church member does is attend a nice comfortable home meeting with coffee cup in hand where everyone feels good about themselves, they are missing NT experience.
When the term 'seeker-sensitive' first started being used, I prayed about it. The Lord directed me to lead a 'God-sensitive' church where HE could do what He wanted to do. Afterall, it is His church.
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- Re: Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/01/07 03:04:57 PM | | Age 47, AR |
Thanks for your very encouraging testimony and for the correction it helps bring to what comes across to me as a very judgmental and one-sided
response to what WCCC is trying to do in its self-critique.
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Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 10/31/07 11:28:47 AM |
Age 54, PA |
The Word of God yesterday, today, and forever never changes. What does our Lord teach in Mathew 7:26- 27 "But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
What will happen to the foundation of churches that are not built on the sound doctrines of the precious Word of God?
Back to Bible 101, " We all reap what we sow".
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Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 10/31/07 08:55:24 AM |
Age 47, MO |
A big huge AMEN! I see that God is working and seperating His true christians from the pretenders and the world. Solomon said there was nothing new under the sun yet our new age guru's thought they were on to something. It is high time we return to the root- Jesus Christ and his word.
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Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 10/31/07 07:34:25 AM |
Age 45, PA |
Has anyone ever said, "hey let's see what the Bible says about growth and the gatherings?" And God added to them those who would be saved! You see the church back then were all in agreement and connected to Christ as the head, not a Pastor, elders, creeds or denomination. When those two criteria were met "HE" added to the fellowship. The church is believers not seekers because unbelievers don't seek after God, he seeks after them. Arrogent men seek to build a kingdom of the unregenerate at the expense of the few true believers.
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Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 10/31/07 07:04:03 AM |
Age 44, IL |
It's great that Bill Hybels has admitted his error, but as you point out, should we really be encouraged by their findings? Read Mr. Hawkin's statement carefully and notice the "emergent" language (i.e., "rethink",etc.). It is well documented that Pastor Hybels and his church readily support contempletive prayer and other such practices. My guess is this is where their philosophy of seeker-friendly will shift. While I'm happy to see Willow Creek's admission, I'm really not all that hopeful of where they are headed. We must pray that the Holly Spirit will convict them, and that rather than being lead by methodology, they will be lead by theology and the grace of God.
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- Re: Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/07/07 10:08:58 PM | | Age 54, SC |
You are quite correct in your assessment. While initially it sounds encouraging that Hybels admits that the church growth movement has succeeded in growing churches as far as numbers are concerned, it has been my experience, from another mega-church, that it has failed miserably in discipling these new believers in the Word. The church is for believers not unbelievers - the Body of Christ is to go out of the church to proclaim the gospel, not invite people to their "user-friendly" church to hear a gutted gospel that does not teach repentance for fear of offending anyone.Furthermore, the main reason they are encouraged to invite people to church is because they have failed to teach their own people how to share the gospel - so of course the only option is to invite non-believers to church. The church's purpose is to worship and disciple, which is different from its mission. I agree with your statement about WCC moving in the direction of emergent church/new age. Until I hear Hybels denounce McLaren, Bell, etc. the only change that will be happening is the "shift" to emergent.
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- Re: Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 10/31/07 09:42:04 PM | | Age 47, NC |
you mention they need to seek the Holly Spirit and be led by theology and the Word of God. i personnally would prefer they seek God and be led by the Holy (notice there's only ONE L in holy not two). theology should have NO part in any church. Jesus is The Word and His Spirit should lead EVERY church.
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- Re: Re: Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/01/07 11:35:52 PM | | Age 24, IN |
I find it interesting that you were so focused on correcting another persons spelling that you omitted a whole word from your statement. While it is true that you did spell Holy correct you neglected to add the word Spirit behind it. So what holy is it that you are talking about? Second, to deal with the issue "Theology" simply means the study of God as someone has already pointed out. If one takes this definition (which we must because the definition simply defines what the sub words mean. To define this word any other way would me non-sense.) then you when you say people should depend on God you are making a theological statement. So first you make a statement of theology and then you deny the validity of theology and say it has not place in the church. How is it possible for a church for follow a God that they do not study? You whole point is self defeating, because if you look at your whole statement you are denying what you were initially trying to affirm.
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- Re: Re: Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/01/07 06:24:04 PM | | Age 19, MN |
Wait, wait, wait, what do you mean by "theology"? The word theology comes from two words: Theos=God logos=study of, which means that theology is the study of God...how is this a problem?
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Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 10/31/07 06:01:56 AM |
Age 62, TN |
Greetings in Christ!
I had heard the news, but your article was most excellent-- Thanks!
Hybels states: "We made a mistake. What we should have done when people crossed the line of faith and become Christians,..."
RESPONSE: Whether it is Hybels or most any fundamental/evangelical congregation-- Most engage in a DEADLY practice: Like insurance salesmen, presentations are made, the net is closed, a profession is garnered... and then the religious salesman plays God and the Holy Spirit and ON THE SOLE BASIS OF a 'repeat-after-me-prayer' having been completed, the religious salesman proudly decrees, "YOU ARE SAVED!"
It is no surprise that MILLIONS who have been 'pronounced saved' NEVER show forth any evidence of being disciples of Jesus Christ. Holy Spirit conviction, grace empowered repentance and genuine child-like faith were BYPASSED.
The sole benefit of the man-centered way?
It all looks good on the church reports!
May Grace Abound to you!
Jim Bell / jwillie123@aol.com
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- Re: Re: Seeker Friendly Church Leader Admits They Have Done It All Wrong
| Posted On: 11/03/07 04:37:00 AM | | Age 67, AUSTRALIA |
Your observance is correct in my view, I have attended many church services where people follow an offer of salvation. After the "follow me prayer" the exclamation that you are now "saved" is given and those same people go on with their life as before, the church's weekly numbers don't change and by all appearances neither do the people who said the prayer.I may be wrong but there is something wrong here, I think the message of
Salvation is conveyed without conviction and the necessity of it.
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