Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/26/07 08:30:49 AM |
Age 51, NC |
Jesus said, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; NO MAN comes to the Father except BY ME." Anything else is heresy.
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Doug is wrong, and so is Todd!
| Posted On: 10/26/07 05:28:53 AM |
Age 27, SOUTH AFRICA |
Hi Todd. Let's be honest: your definition of hell is also not entirely truthful - Jesus did not say what you say He said. You've strung a few terms and words together, and didn't quote Jesus correctly. Please try and keep to what Jesus actually said, rather than an interpretation of what He said.
Secondly, Doug offers no assured hope or salvation in his view, and I think this is incredibly sad and will result in a joyless gospel. While the Gospel is about the here and now, it is also about what's coming. He has trashed the 'not yet' parts of the Gospel for the 'already' parts, which results in something incomplete and without hope. My advice to Doug is to stop being extreme in his reactions to the modern church, and rather be balanced in his view of the scriptures. Interesting talk. Lastly, Todd, please let a man finish his sentence in these interviews - you're getting a little too heated up, and it feels like you're trying to make Doug look like a fool rather than gently correcting your brother (besides, as I said earlier, your Jesus quote was wrong.)
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- Re: Doug is wrong, and so is Todd!
| Posted On: 11/08/07 09:14:33 AM | | Age 27, SOUTH AFRICA |
After a few weeks I've come back here to see what people's response to this whole situation is.
Let me say that I am both sad and terribly angry at the absolutely terrible way both you, Todd, and the public have managed this situation. The Bible says 'gently rebuke and encourage' and it says 'restore your brother.' All you're doing is providing entertainment. I bet no one is even going to bother to say anything about my post here, since most of you are too busy on your holier-than-thou little cloud to even address the real problem. There are those who have a form of godliness but deny it's power. Most of you here are on that road.
THE REAL PROBLEM IS NOT THAT DOUG IS A HERETIC (Plus, your definitions of heretic are completely, historically, and biblically wrong.) THE REAL ISSUE IS THE GOSPEL. TODD, YOU HAVE NOT REPRESENTED THE GOSPEL. YOU'RE AS GUILTY AS DOUG. You, Todd, are a heretic not by your words - BUT BY YOUR ACTION. Please stop this. It's not godly. And I have to say the same for a number of you here, with your totally ridiculous and ungodly comments about Doug. You're all bunch of heretics, for it is those that DO the Word that count. All of you aren't doing the word, you're just pretending.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/26/07 02:36:22 AM |
Age 20, CA |
Heretic. According to what I've heard, it seems that there is no real need for Christ. Why preach the gospel at all? Preach morality! It seems morality is what people need, not Christ. And with the way words are twisted, it would seem that Tyndale's work to translate the Bible into vernacular was pointless. It might as well be in Latin. How can anyone find any certainty in such uncertain interpretation(if it can even be called that!)?
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/25/07 11:10:17 PM |
Age 50, TN |
Unfortunately, I must conclude (along with many others who have posted a response to Todd's interview with Doug Pagitt) that despite Pagitt's 'emergent' aversion to stating anything conclusively, categorically or absolutely (which makes it rather difficult clearly to pinpoint his beliefs) his overall presentation of what he considers to be the 'gospel' of 'Jesus' would undoubtedly place him in the category of 'heretic' (as opposed to merely being aberrant). Not only does he completely misunderstand historic Christianity but he has far more affinities to mid-second century gnosticism than he realizes. His unwillingness to acknowledge the biblical presentation of new creation as being both 'place' (Gk, topos) as well as condition moves him toward the gnostic end of the spectrum in which materiality is deprecated in favor of 'spirit' ... thus implicitly and effectively denying both the physical resurrection of Jesus and the real physicality (a renewed and 'spiritual' physicality; e.g., I Cor 15 and 'soma pneumaticon') of a new creation in which believers will participate. One of the earliest Pauline letters (I Thess) correlates the resurrection closely with deliverance from 'the wrath to come.' Pagitt, by his strident avoidance of the admittedly unpleasant doctrine of eternal separation from God in a place (and condition) referred to biblically as 'hades' and 'gehenna,' unwittingly undermines the entire biblical doctrine of the substitutionary atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ on behalf of sinners as well as his resurrection for their justification. And in the end, if God does not differentiate between righteous and unrighteous, believer and unbeliever then He is neither just nor merciful. Mr. Pagitt desperately needs the grace of God which leads to a humble repentance before the One who has been merciful to undeserving sinners in the Beloved Son. A couple of good courses in biblical and systematic theology wouldn't hurt either!
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/25/07 10:52:04 PM |
Age 41, SD |
Heretic. How can you intelligently talk to someone when words have no meaning? He has taken the plain, literal meaning of scripture and made everything relative to his own imagination.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/25/07 10:26:12 PM |
Age 56, MN |
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
Doug is living in an alternative universe.
Having said that, it would be good if you would let him finish his sentences before you talk over him.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/25/07 10:13:55 PM |
Age 49, NC |
He is heretic, especially if he is teaching "whatever he said" to others. Jesus was clear about Heaven and Hell being actual places and that He Himself is the Way, the Truth, and The Life and that no man comes to the Father but by Him, for there is no other name whereby a man must be saved. I would challenge a person to read the Gospel of John in which Jesus makes it clear Who He is, what He came to do, and how to be saved.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/25/07 09:30:28 PM |
Age 42, IL |
HERETIC - What Doug teaches is contrary to the Bible. He takes old words and gives new meanings. He is a very confused person and needs our prayers.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/25/07 09:22:53 PM |
Age 36, AL |
aberrent at best heretic at worst. This man doesn't give me any indication of a Holy Spirit conversion but reminds me of myself before I was saved. I'd be very concerned if i were him.
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