Speaking of Church Fathers...
| Posted On: 12/20/07 05:27:00 PM |
Age 33, OK |
In early Christianity, a heretic was not someone who merely disagreed (as there was such a variety of opinions at the time), but a heretic was defined as someone who was willing to split Christ's church over that disagreement. I hope this is not what is happening here, because if it is, then YOU are all heretics in your vitriolic and mean-spirited condemnations of Rev Pagitt. What do metaphysics matter when it comes to our common realities on the ground?
In the spirit of prooftexting, consider Micah 6:8 - "And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God."
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 11:40:15 AM |
Age 28, MI |
I'm an ingnorant fool when it comes to understanding the differences between emergent, orthodox, fundamentalist. But I'm a fool in love with our LORD God, our Creator, our Savior. As I read through your postings, my heart groans within, it cries out to our LORD to save us from all that has deceived us. I believe that DP and others like him have been deceived. To me, there is no debate. It matters not what I say about this issue...the only thing that matters is the truth. God's truth. Deep in our hearts...in that quiet stillness that resides within, the truth can be found if we have the courage and the humilty to face it. If we are honest with ourselves before God, we all know what the truth is on this issue...so the question that is begged from us, is not who is right and who is wrong, but rather what is next? What is it that God would have us do with this truth? How will we go about changing lives for him? That is an answer to be found within your heart and decided between yourself and God.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/12/07 09:10:38 AM |
Age 45, CO |
Heresy: An offense against Christianity, consisting in a denial of some essential doctrine, lack of sound belief; rejection of, or erroneous opinion in regard to, some fundamental doctrine or truth.
Heretic: one who practices such things.
God's word tells us that many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error (Matt 24:11). Doug Pagitt attempts to deflect answering any questions concretely by pronouncing that Orthodoxy is tainted with Platonic ideology and then proceeds to deconstruct God's word with his own subjectivist ideology. Doug is simply following the age old deception that began in the garden when the serpent said to the woman Yea, hath God said?" Constantly questioning God, instead of obeying! God is not the author of confusion and has given us a sure word. If we were to follow the faulty hermeneutics's of the Doug Pagitt's in this world we could never be able trust what God has said because what God had said would be stripped of all its truth and meaning and subjected to the dangerous, individual concepts of those bereft of the Holy Spirit. Doug Pagitt is clearly a heretic and we have found him to be a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition!
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/09/07 07:33:51 PM |
Age 51, AR |
Heretic. Paul declared to the Galatians that "...if anyone" (including himself or even an angel "from heaven") "preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:3-9
Or to say it this way, if anyone preaches another GOOD NEWS than what has been established then let them be accursed.
It certainly sounds as if Doug Pagitt is preaching another GOOD NEWS ... heaven is not a place; there is no literal hell; judgment is the removal of beliefs contrary to God - not the punishment of those who have lived in opposition to Jesus Christ, etc.
Mr. Pagitt sounds as if his good news is that people need not worry about accepting Christ Jesus as Lord in this life for our salvation, but that God will make every person to be right at judgment! Never read that in the words of Christ!
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/07/07 01:00:42 PM |
Age 28, TX |
I disagree that being a heretic is damning. Ones beliefs send you neither to Heaven or to Hell. I do believe that you can label a heretic, though, by wither they go against the doctrines of the Bible or the established church. You are not DAMNING them by doing so,only God can do that.
Now, according to many churches I AM a heretic, so where you have to be careful, as is pointed out, is to not label someone a heretic based on secondary issues. Even so, I'm probably still considered a heretic by most. :)
Sarah in TX (sovereign grace credo baptist continualist quiverfull homeschooling headcovering wife to a soon to be pastor.)
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/06/07 02:01:57 PM |
Age 50, MN |
The verdict is in - 94 responses here say he's unequivocally a heretic. (9 disagreed and 13 had issues but didn't directly call him a heretic - which still makes it a clear 81% heretic landslide vote.) So Todd - it's back to you - should we stone him, burn him at the stake or just mock him on your radio show?
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- Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/08/07 02:02:15 PM | | Age 19, CA |
Really, this is the fact that concerns me most about the whole "Is Doug Pagitt a heretic?" question. What's the end goal? To humiliate Pagitt? To make bad jokes about Pagitt? Honestly, I can't believe some of the things that have been written here by people claiming to be Christians. Of course we should call out heresy and untruth when we see it, but that means attacking points and ideas, not people. If you all are truly convinced Doug Pagitt is incorrect, you should be able to show he's wrong using logical argumentation and actually interacting with what he says. Attacking him personally doesn't do this. It's also not a Christian response to untruth. We are called to love all, and fight untruth.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/04/07 12:47:52 PM |
Age 50, OH |
Heresy. Because DP suggests heaven is not a place and that judgment is God re-making the world.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/01/07 10:01:34 AM |
Age 50, MN |
I listened to Todd Friel again on Oct. 31. He now has 'commercials' mocking and making fun of Doug Pagitt, all for a laugh. Incredibly demeaning, misrepresenting (okay exaggerating) Pagitt's position to get smirks and chuckles from his listeners (90% christian I would presume.)// Where is the outcry about this? Why is it okay to do this? Will anybody have the nerve to ask Todd these questions?// Talk about turning serious issues into 'entertainment' and 'ear candy' - is this what we're supposed to be about? //Yeah let's make fun of people, laugh at them, and then continue to pat ourselves on the back for our 'superior' theological positions. //I have to say it sickens me - and I wonder why it doesn't sicken anyone else.
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- Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/02/07 03:43:48 PM | | Age 55, NE |
Yes, if we don't coddle heretics we aren't playing "fair" by the world's standards. If Jesus, or Paul, were here He would more than likely call him a viper or wolf.
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- Re: Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/08/07 09:16:56 AM | | Age 27, SOUTH AFRICA |
He'd probably call Todd just the same. Both of these men are wrong. I think you've missed the point.
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- Re: Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/04/07 07:56:27 AM | | Age 50, MN |
There is a monumental difference between confronting in truth and love and trying to humiliate, ridicule and make cheap jokes of someone for laugh - nobody said he should coddle him - so why didn't you address the point I made? Because you'd rather support this crap than call it what it is? SIN. If a liberal pulled this on a conservative this site would never hear the end of it.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/31/07 10:26:46 PM |
Age 23, MO |
First and foremost, as someone has said before, Jesus was often called a heretic. His response was that to condemn the work of the Spirit of God as the work of the devil was the ultimate blasphemy. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to determine what an infinite and almighty God's modus operandi. I'm not going to even attempt to comment either way regarding the issues of the dialogue, but it seems to me that we are quick to label Pagitt with harsh names while accusing him of the same things. I fail to see how we are promoting a gospel of love (particularly for our enemies) by bashing them and determining whether or not they have salvation according to our own understandings. Who is the God of salvation? Is it God or our determinations of who we think is right?
As for the history of orthodox tradition, I think its important to note that it didn't begin with Calvin, Luther or Spurgeon. Every leader of the earliest church was condemned as a heretic and persecuted for believing in an extreme and radical love.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/31/07 08:15:45 PM |
Age 56, CO |
Not only is this man a heretic but I have never heard such inane babbling in my life! I'm so appalled I have nothing more to say. Thank you for asking for feedback.
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