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Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
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heretic
Posted On: 10/25/07 12:59:13 PM Age 33, FL
Todd, I thought that Doug was so confusing! I don't know that I could even figure out what he believes. Talk about snatching verses out of context. I think that he has actually done what he was accusing you of. Though I do think that both of you needed to let each other finish your statements before beginning to talk...it was a little bit hard to understand when both of you are talking at the same time. Thanks for your stand on Scripture! Keep up the good work!! Elisabeth Keyes
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 12:39:06 PM Age 50, MN
First time I listened to Todd. Unfortunately I heard a shrill, unwilling to engage the guest, Rush Limbaugh wanna be, who wasn't interested in discussion or getting at what someone is thinking, even though he's asking that question. We have reshaped the Bible to fit the way western society wants to live and to look honestly at how we have done that is not heresy.//You even pieced together the 4 minutes just the way you did the scripture verses - very intersting. He was clear, we all stand before God in a similar way when we die, that's true, he would talk to the family about reconciling with God through Jesus at the muslim funeral. When allowed to speak he talked about people being eliminated from what God was doing in the evermore - maybe that's not as clear as a Jenkins/Lahaye book - but I think there are more questions than answers about the judgement and God will be God in this matter - not Todd Friel or Doug Pagitt. //So keep patting yourself on the back like you did the rest of the show with your listeners because you have it all down and every question answered. - since I don't(as you would obviously agree) I guess I have more in common with Pagitt than you - and more hope that Christianity can be relevant to my life and this world.
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  1. Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
    Posted On: 10/26/07 06:20:41 PMAge 55, NE
    Trying to hold someone accountable to what the Bible clearly states is as willing to engage as you can get! He claims to be a Christian and yet it's obvious that he refuses to stand where Scripture clearly does. Is everyone going to be saved regardless of what they believe about Jesus Christ? The Bible is very clear about that. How do you explain what Jesus said in John 14:6? Are there many "ways", many "truths" and many "lifes?" If so, then Jesus is wrong. You can believe that if you want but don't call yourself a Christian if you do. At least be honest about what you believe. Doug, like so many "pastors" today obfuscates when it comes to doctrine. The great sin in the minds of his ilk is to be clear and to actually believe that something is propositionally true. If you are comfortable identifying with him then I pity you.
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  2. Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
    Posted On: 10/26/07 03:53:23 AMAge 28, PHILIPPINES
    I disagree with the sentiment that Christianity should be "relevant" to somebody's life in the sense that, whether we are aware of it or not, or even care about it or not, JESUS CHRIST IS LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH. He is even LORD of Hell (not Satan) because He snatched the keys of the gates of Hell from the devil during those three days before His resurrection. That is why in Psalm 24, Jesus is the Lord of Glory, strong and mighty, entering the ancient doors of Heaven, both God and Man, a wondrous sight to all the angels and other heavenly beings! It is not a question of the relationship with God being relevant to us, as if it is merely a PART of our lives. God is not just something relevant. He is not something that merely "brightens up your day". A surrendered life to Jesus Christ is not a matter of comfort of positivity. It IS life itself! It is a daily bout with our sinful nature that can only be overcome by the Blood of the Lamb. It is a daily confession of whatever transgression we may yet commit -- for we are still alive in the flesh -- that have already been credited to His atoning sacrifice through the shedding of His Blood. It is a REAL relationship with the Father, inclusive of all the benefits and needed discipline. Having any other kind of life that is without God is considered death in terms of eternity.
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  3. Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
    Posted On: 10/25/07 09:23:00 PMAge 68, IN
    I think one thing Doug said is true...every person will come to judgement in the same way. That is not to say that people who have not accepted Christ will be given the same verdict that believers will receive. It just means the same criteria will be used for everyone,ie: have you believed in, trusted in, clung to Christ alone as your Lord and Saviour? I did not hear anything heretical. I think you were not truly listening objectively to what he was saying.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
      Posted On: 10/26/07 09:32:37 PMAge 55, NE
      It would be so easy to settle this in his favor if he would simply state what the Bible clearly says. There is only one way to be saved - through the blood of Jesus Christ. By not being willing to do so, he is justly held to be in error at the very least. His views, or what we assume are his views since he won't be clear, sound like universalism. He isn't saying everyone will face judgment on an equal plane. He's saying we all have the same chance for heaven. If not then why doesn't he just say so? Don't defend what he hasn't said.
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  4. Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
    Posted On: 10/25/07 09:16:29 PMAge 68, IN
    I think one thing Doug said is true...every person will come to judgement in the same way. That is not to say that people who have not accepted Christ will be given the same verdict that believers will receive. It just means the same criteria will be used for everyone,ie: have you believed in, trusted in, clung to Christ alone as your Lord and Saviour? I did not hear anything heretical. I think you were not truly listening objectively to what he was saying.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 12:37:00 PM Age 54, MT
Doug is a heretic. It sounds like another person who takes the way they want heaven to be and twists the definition of words from the Bible around to meet their "new" definition...one that will fit the after life they wish for. Heaven isn't a personal interpretation...we may not know alot about it, but Jesus gave us hints and he definitely told us the door to get there. Doug wants many doors to heaven, but there is only one.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 12:34:01 PM Age 38, WV
So THAT is why my (emerging) pastor can speak for an hour but not say a thing? I had a friend ask him a few very simple questions one time as to why she should join the church, and he went on and on with some gobbledy-gook and never even answered what was asked. You'd think he was a career politician! :)
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 12:30:32 PM Age 53, KS
Heretic by all means and by most of his words. Dealing with this is like boxing with a cloud. This has shown up in our formerly Bible-believing church. It has come in like a fog, blinding the eyes of many. Its BROAD appeal has made the teaching popular except for the FEW. It is tickling the ears of many and causing the few to flee. In researching this and digging around we have found that the Kingdom Now movement in the Charismatic Churches seems to fit what Doug Pagitt was talking about. The fact(his fact) that the heaven and earth are going to be recreated and the evil will be out of the way is kin to the belief in the Kingdom Now group that the people who are not fit for the Kingdom will be raptured so that they(Kingdom people) can usher in the Kingdom. In a sense, if they can get all of us dogmatic, doctrinaire Bible -believing people out of the way, the Kingdom can happen. It will serve as a convenient excuse when the rapture of His true church happens. Heresy is a soft word for this. It is dangerous. It is putting many without Bible knowledge on a train bound in the wrong direction. Psalm 11:4. Thanks for your articles and work for Way Of the Master. Exposing this stuff and explaining it is helping the scales fall from some eyes. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 12:18:41 PM Age 34, MN
Heretic John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Ricky G ~ SO4J.com
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 11:58:47 AM Age 58, IN
Doug Pagitt is a heretic. He denys that Jesus is the only way. He teaches that you do not have to be born again. He denies a hell. He is a universalist. He is a in the same category as Carlton Pearson. (HERETICS) Stay far away from these men. Elaine
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 11:44:25 AM Age 41, TX
So, the essentials are the 5 solas? Hmmmm. Not so sure about that. Who decides that those are the essentials? What were the essentials before the reformers came up with those? Shouldn't we maybe to back to the early church fathers? What about one of the creeds? That's what they determined were essential. Seems to me that when someone asked Jesus about the essentials he boiled it down to loving God and loving your neighbor. That seems like a pretty good sola to start with to me. Haven't had time to listen to Pagitt's interview yet ... but will do it soon. I may agree or disagree on points with him ... but as far as assigning him personally as a heretic? I think I'll leave that to God ... esp. since as near as I can tell that is a heart issue.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 11:38:04 AM Age 34, GA
Heresy. What this guy is saying is there was no reason for Jesus to die on the cross.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 10/25/07 11:37:02 AM Age 53, OR
I have a college education and I did not understand what Pagitt was talking about. Heaven as a "metaphor"? How does he share his faith with his good Muslim friends when he cannot even discern good and evil and talk about the penalty for sin? Emergent types always tap dance around naming sin and using the law as a way to show non-believers that sin leads to death which is eternal separation from God. They would much rather have philosophical discussions about the "Bible as Metaphor." He couldn't answer Todd's questions, so he moved into questioning how Todd was asking the questions. He tried to sidestep the real issues that way. There were pieces of truth mixed into his answers. Does this technique ring familiar (..."did God REALLY say...?) - - ?
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