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Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/12/07 08:07:44 AM Age 43, CO
Narrow is the way and few there are that find it. I apprecite your boldness to speak on a subject that needs to be addressed.
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/09/07 01:01:06 AM Age 45, NJ
Ray, I went to a good old Southern Baptist evangelism crusade when I was 16. I heard the preacher talk about Jesus and sin and love (though he never explained what sin). I heard him give the "get out of jail free card" speech, demonstrating his misunderstanding of what repentance is; what being born again is; what SURRENDER IS. But I was only 16, what did I know? So my older sister and I, tears streaming down our faces, walked "down front" and "gave our lives tah Jezussss." They never saw us again. I mean why should they? We had our fire insurance paid so we could live how we wanted, right? I am grateful to note a recent SBC bought 10, 000 Basic Training Courses from the LivingWaters.com site. Scary thing is these were all PASTORS. So, to your call on a moratorium on the sinner's prayer I say this: No CHRISTIAN asks anyone to do such a thing without a THOROUGH explanation of WHAT repentance is, why Yahweh is so GRACIOUS to forgive such a sinner; what SIN IS. If NOT ONE SINNER repented God would still be loving and merciful. Narrow is the way and few there are that find it. Patrick J Burwell OnlyJesusSaves.com
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/07/07 09:44:00 PM Age 34, WI
If you shouldn't pray a "sinners prayer" how does one communicate with God in order to start a relationship? Isn't every initial form of repentance a sinners prayer of their own, perhaps not someone else's words, but God judges the heart doesn't he? Did the man next to Jesus on the cross have time to "examine to see that he was in the faith"? I prayed the pray in a 4 spiritual laws booklet in high school and it was the beginning of my walk with God. Since then my life has changed and it was a "real" deal. What does living for Christ look like on a daily basis? I think it's following the Holy Spirit's lead and loving God and people. When I helped a neighbor paint her deck did I do it to gain points and make sure my life was changed before God or just because that's what Jesus would do? I would hope the latter.
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  1. Re: Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
    Posted On: 09/09/07 08:33:32 PMAge 47, MO
    Friend: You are correct in your thinking but err in what you think is the intent of this article. The author's intent is to say that leading sheep to step thru emotionally based hoops is not leading them to salvation. Jesus did not put words in the mouth of the thief on the cross, the thief spoke from his heart. This is not to say that a preacher cannot help people to realize what a sinners prayer looks like (brokenness, regret, repentance, Christ, grace, etc.) Just like the "Lord's Prayer" is really not a prayer, but a realization of our brokenness, our reliance on God, and the realization of the absolute majesty of God. Religion never gets us to the point of relationship and is actually a hinderance. Thus canned prayers, rituals, crosses, WWJD bracelets, etc. actually keep us from seeking Christ with ALL OUR hearts, all our souls, all our minds, and all our strength. Hope this helps.
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    1. God knows his own from the foundations of the world
      Posted On: 12/19/07 10:56:01 PMAge 21, OR
      Disclaimer: I do not tell my age, and I am somewhat older than 21. I uderstand what you are trying to say, but you yourself might help the people that are new in Christ rather than scare them to death. I came away with the thought that you feel that there are not many if any saved, and not to clear on the way of how to get saved. Christ found me, my life changed from a cult to Christ. No I never said a sinners prayer, but there are many who do, and Jesus is constantly working on those whose prayes were real. Going to a Church where the Word of God from the BIBLE is handled correctly by a Pastor, and a constant reading of the Bible, and the leading of Holy Spirit ( not in that order) will begin to change your life. I do not have the correct words, they are written in my heart to Jesus, and so are the hearts of many others. Tell people what sin is. Don't scare people by your article unless you are clear from beginning to end is what I want to say. I do agree that we need to hear about Hell! No one talks about what Jesus spoke of more than Heaven. Read John Edwards "A sinner in the hands of an angry God" Its all over the net. Hope I got the title right God Bless your work
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/07/07 04:33:21 AM Age 45, TX
Challenge to Ray Baumann and other christians Matthew 18:19 - Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. Please pray the following prayer! I already did. Father God, in the name of Jesus Christ, we ask that you will save all the people that say the sinner's prayer. In the name of Jesus Christ I ask this according to Matthew 18:19. IF you did pray the above prayer also, we made the sinner's prayer a valid tool for the Father in heaven to save lost souls.
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  1. Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
    Posted On: 09/08/07 11:14:27 PMAge 35, IL
    19"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven." This is one of the most popular verses misused today especially by the name it claim it crowd. Jesus is teaching the disciples here about leading the church. And they are talking about church discipline here. That’s the problem with using just one verse you can get out of context very fast. Please go back and read starting at verse 15 to put this into context for you. That verse has nothing to do with prayers and having them answered. And has every thing to do with the church leadership passing down discipline.
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  2. Re: Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
    Posted On: 09/08/07 08:26:37 PMAge 37, NY
    No offense, brother, but what if we all prayed this: "Father God, we pray in the name of Jesus Christ that you would save all those who drive on Interstate 10. In Jesus' name. Amen." Have we now made I-10 a valid tool for God to save lost souls? C'mon.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
      Posted On: 09/09/07 03:12:57 AMAge 45, TX
      Reply, someone prayed in the area of Azuzu Street that God would use it to bring his glory and it did. God sent powerful/anointed men and women of God to that area and alot of people got saved and healed and delivered. Now ask God to use your home, your life, and your church to do the same things. While you are driving on I-10, pray for the salvation of the souls driving on the interstate with you. Next, God will put a plan of action to get them saved maybe in Dallas Texas.
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  3. Re: Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
    Posted On: 09/08/07 02:28:45 PMAge 47, MO
    My wife, my brother, my mom, and I prayed for it to rain at our homes today at 2:15pm cst. It didn't. What do you think, is something wrong with our biblical interpretation? Now repeat after me, "Christianity is not about me. Christianity is about God changing me to be obedient to His will." Friend, it's not a formula or a one time verbal emotional response to a plea. Thirst is quenched by ingesting living water, not by the emotion, the drama, or the experience.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
      Posted On: 09/09/07 04:07:42 AMAge 45, TX
      You wanted rain at 2:15 PM. But the will of god is to bring refreshing rain to a parched land(in psalms). No time can be put on it. You must stay in prayer until it happens by faith. Now repeat after me, "Christianity is not about me. Christianity is about God changing me to be transformed into the image of his son the Lord Jesus Christ by picking up my cross and following after Jesus until I die to myself and under stand his will. Also, be obedient to His will." Read John 3:17. The will of God is that all may know him and none shall parish. When you reach the end of your cross, you get the same power and authority in prayer that Jesus has. The emotional response is from having the same heart as Jesus has. Love, mercy, grace, salvation, healing, deliverance.
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      1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
        Posted On: 09/10/07 02:42:57 PMAge 47, MO
        Yes, prayer is not about moving God, it's about moving us. Therfore, prayer in itself accomplishes nothing. There is no magic prayer spell to do God's will, to do our will, or to casue rain at any time any place. Prayer is the conduit used to seek God's will for the situation we are praying for. (Prayer is our plea for God's will) If we pray for salvation for a loved one, the salvation will not happen as a result of the prayer. However, God will cause the obedient among us and others to work His will in their life. God may and may not stir the heart of the unsaved to repentance, but regardless, he will stir our heart to do His will if we transform our will to His will. See what I'm saying, it's not about our will, the answer to our prayers, etc- it's about our obedience and submission to His will. To this we are in agreement, but I think you believe your prayers move God to do what we ask. (?) So, a sinners prayer is not a plea to move God. If the prayer is from the heart, then God has already moved in your heart and the prayer is the sinner's realization of that fact. You see, the prayer does nothing in itself to save the lost. It is only a tool a preacher uses to judge the effectiveness of his delivery to achieve his desired results.
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/06/07 11:20:08 AM Age 47, MO
Ray: I really enjoyed this article but I must say, your plea for a redactment of the sinner's prayer will fall on deaf ears. Why? Because most churches do not want fully born again believers, they want people who are just like us sitting in the pews. Wouldn't it be uncomfortable for us if a true convert started living a convicted, repentant, Spirit filled life and we sat in the pews for 30 years in our comfortable American style christianity? No friend, we want to feel good about ourselves, about our compromises in life, about our "love filled" theology that leaves us secure, fat, and complacent. We love a lord with some of our heart, some of our soul, some of our mind, and none of our strength. So much theology, so little biblical literacy! John
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/06/07 11:17:56 AM Age 20, OH
I agree very much. There are few articles on here that I can truely agree with but the shallowness of Christianity in America is sickening. When will we be like David and weep for our sins. I've found myself in discussions about, not specifically the lords prayer, but about the commitment the "church" has on numbers more than true believers and disciples.
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/06/07 11:05:00 AM Age 60, KS
Let me respond to the article with..... AMEN!!!!!!!!!
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authors comments
Posted On: 09/06/07 09:47:01 AM Age 35, IL
Did I break everyones favorite stain glass window? I don't have issue with the sinners prayer its repeating after me that I have issue with. Through the whole article I stressed REPEATING the sinners prayer has no saving power. That was the whole point and no one has argued to defend againt the point I made. That having a person repeat a prayer will not save them. Yet people keep doing it and its doing more harm than good. Repeat after me "I love Ray" now were all best friends....
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  1. Re: authors comments
    Posted On: 09/07/07 11:18:44 AMAge 47, MO
    If I repeat after you "I love Ray," does that mean that I love Ray? Perhaps it means that I want to appease you and not cause disention. Most Christians do not want to ruffle feathers because they mistakenly believe that a Christian life is a quiet harmonious life. However, Christ said that friendship with the world is emity with God. He also said we cannot serve two masters and that we will have tribulation. Ray, brother, we are in agreement about this so thanks for allowing me the forum. I love you man! John
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/05/07 10:18:12 PM Age 37, NY
Amen and amen. It's amazing how many traditions that Modern Evangelicalism has. All who call themselves Christians should search the Scriptures whether what they've been taught (and believed) is so. People are afraid to examine themselves to see if they are in the faith. Our natural man wants a formulaic approach (raise a hand, walk an aisle, pray a prayer and really, REALLY mean it). Man's works. If you disagree with the author, ask yourself this question: What's the difference between you and the guy sitting next to you in the pew, assuming you had similar upbringings, attitudes, etc. when you came to Christ and he didn't? Many today would have to say they made a better choice. It's what *they* do. You can then boast about *your* good choice. Conversion to Christianity is a work of God, bringing the sinner to see his sin for what it is, and in with a change of heart wrought by God Himself, the sinner cries out to the Savior. Thanks for the fine article.
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Re: Attention Churches: Recall On Sinners Prayer
Posted On: 09/05/07 08:10:17 PM Age 51, CA
How sad. Your article has so many over-simplifications, generalizations, shallow theology, and poor logic that it would be hard to reply. Your article presents the very worst that Worldview has to offer and the reason why many people consier "cultish." No, there is not text in the Bible labeled, "Sinner's Prayer." But to make the leap, "no one ever prayed to receive Christ in the Bible" shows your shallowness. By the way, there are no "chapter or verse" numbers in the Bible so everytime you refer to a verse, your are a false prophet adding to the Word of God. The fact anybody supports your strawman argument surprises me. Of course, there is some truth mixed in with your error. But, half truth is all lie.
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