FREE WORLDVIEW MAG FREE WORLDVIEW RALLIES
Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
PAGE: 1 2 3 NEXT>

Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 04:02:43 PM Age 51, NE
Most of our founding fathers who wrote the Constitution were Godly men. Now as we live in 2007, we have men who wish to re-write the Constitution, who appear not be Godly men. We should not obey worldly laws if it causes us to sin against our heavenly Father. There are alot of Christians leaving the Church because Pastors are following the ways of the world. Please, pray for pastors.. God is doing a new thing. Remember who is the LIGHT of the WORLD **
Click here to reply to this post



Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 03:41:16 PM Age 51, CA
I agree with this artical, the so called church of our lord today, has gotten so far away from the truth, the purpose & the will of God in todays society, that even those who are wanting to learn & feed on the truth are starving to death. many pastors have been put in their positions of pastor by man & their own lustful desires. the true children of God need to rise up & answer the call of God & truly hear the cry of the people. God is waiting.
Click here to reply to this post

Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 02:05:49 PM Age 84, CA
Excellent article! Probably the problem is exacerbated by the Internal Revenue Service. Because of the requirements they impose many withhold their criticism even when they agree with those sentiments. A practical answer would be to eliminate their threat by eliminating them. The alternatives of sales tax and flat tax should find us emulating the THREE tithes found in the "Old" Testament which would yield a flat tax of something like 15 - 16% of the "increase."
Click here to reply to this post



Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 01:06:03 PM Age 47, MO
Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a pasifist who in the end resisted Hitler, it took lots of persuasion to get to the point of resistance but he never got to assasinate Hitler. Hitler never showed up at the intended location and the plot was foiled. However, Christians are to be proactive in standing for rightousness because faith requires risk. The good Samaritan would have stopped the aggression against the stranger if he got to the scene while the stranger was being acosted. I wrote an article about a Christian's responsibility and guns. Email jchristco@aol.com if interested.
Click here to reply to this post

Re: Why Are Pastors SHEEPISH??? $$BAAA$$
Posted On: 08/28/07 12:54:41 PM Age 56, OR
Ahh, WELL. I just read some comments. Many years of difficulty and lots of money has my family mostly intact here in the US. We read about the US history. We read the BOOKS, the LETTERS. We also read some 'modern constructs' that our kids are taught in school. The constructs generally have decided to rewrite history, like Winston Smith did. They formulate their doctrines in neatly packaged form for most of the poulation. The responses here tend to make me think that none of you (or hardly any) have read the ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS of your Great Nation!!! Are you too PURE to pick up a rifle and become adept with it? Or would you rather preach PEACE, PEACE where there is no peace? The price of freedom is eternal vigilence. And YES! You might have to get DIRTY, or even BLOODY. Is it worth that to you? Or would you rather the 'fetus' be the only bloody one as you allow the murderous environmentalist-humanists preach population control to you? Has the God of Patrick Henry had a change of heart? Was Adams really the wimp some liberals (maybe all) would like to portray to our children? Is the re-enactment of soppy, feminist 'theatre' about US independance really all about 'discoverering yourself'? I thought LIBERTY was formed by a bunch of ordinary courageous people that took the gates of Hell by storm, laid down their lives and founded our country! And like the Children of Israel, when they cried out to the Lord God in adversity and need and showed they had contempt for their pride and posessions and poured themselves out... Then was a NATION BORN. I will tell you: if you get your education from the Muddia, you will be ignorant. If you get your spiritual perspective from the News Muddia, you will be someone's patsy. Eagles do not fly in flocks. Whatsoever you ALLOW to be sowed will be reaped. So far we are reaping quite a whirl-wind. Do NOT disdain our founding fathers and their examples. True, they were also human with weaknesses. But they were not COWARDS!! PGW
Click here to reply to this post

  1. Re: Re: Why Are Pastors SHEEPISH??? $$BAAA$$
    Posted On: 08/31/07 08:46:39 PMAge 19, OH
    I fail to see the point of using the words 'feminized' and 'feminist' as insults. As a woman, it's highly offensive for me to read that pastors are weak because you somehow believe that they are feminine. Obviously, you have an extremely skewed idea of what it means to be feminine. I am a woman. I am a rather young woman. However, I am not weak. God gave me an excellent mind and a strong will so that I may use both for His glory. It is not in my nature to be passive, nor is passivity a feminine virtue. God made women as unique individuals, so do not apply 'feminine' as an insult.
    Click here to reply to this post

    1. "Feminist" or feminine???
      Posted On: 09/03/07 11:44:16 PMAge 59, OR
      Dear Age 19, OH, I appreciate and agree with your assessment of both the term “feminine”, and yourself [& gifts] within that term. “Femininity”, although you did not make use of this term, is also complementary. As to derogatory terms, I did not find the above poster at all using or including either term; “femininity”, or 'feminine', and especially “as an insult”. ‘PGW’ did, in fact, correctly use ‘feminist’, and you correctly added ‘feminized’ “as insults”, although you admit “I fail to see the point of using the words 'feminized' and 'feminist' as insults.” Please learn to separate the latter terms from the former and note that they are more or less the modern-day equivelant of “effeminate” warned against in 1Cor. 6:9, unless you have a problem with God’s use of these terms in the NT [of which, I have not noticed such in your other recent posts above]. Before you object, please note that I am a supporter of “CBE” [Christians for Biblical Equality] and other “egalitarian” forums. In our current day and age, these 2 terms have been found to be absolutley ‘agenda created and driven’ for the endtime of the ‘nuclear family’, our nation and of this ‘Age’, and I would caution you to reseach the connections to those terms and carefully withdraw yourself from their influences [Refs provided if you request]. Please don’t read me as ‘dissin’ you, but at my age, unless you are a ‘speed-reader’, and an avid, careful reseacher, you would be hard-pressed to catch up to all the reading, and then the “eye-witnessing” of the 2, 3 generations before me of researchers who suspected, wrote of, and documented ‘peoples, places, and events’ that have somehow ‘worked’ toward that predicted NWO, as found in the Final Book, what can you say?... Dan RN
      Click here to reply to this post

      1. Re: Feminism
        Posted On: 09/10/07 03:23:02 AMAge 19, OH
        I think I understand what you are saying, but I also think that feminism gets a bad rap. There's a difference between radical feminism and mainstream feminism (I'm probably telling you nothing you already know). I call myself a feminist. It is my way of reclaiming the true meaning of word: equality. I think it's detrimental to criticize men as 'feminist.' Being a feminist does not harm one's masculinity--many of my male friends are feminists. When I hear the word 'effeminate' I immediately think of the stereotypes that often are applied to women: passive, gentle, soft-spoken, etc. People should be careful using that word, for in doing so they are unconciously perpetuating a harmful stereotype. I also think of Christian men who do not fit the typical defintion of masculinity. To be criticized as feminine (and all the stereotypes society has applied to the word) seriously damages them. What if they are dealing with same-sex attraction? An insult like that could greatly hinder their recovery.
        Click here to reply to this post



Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 12:02:37 PM Age 25, WA
Excellent. However, I would have to argue that taking the offensive in a blaze of gunfire would not be appropriate either. We are to study to be quiet. When the apostles were reproved for preaching the gospel, they did not have an old west showdown to prove their point. They simply continued doing the work of God. They disobeyed the government, but did not take the initiative to overthrow or assasinate the govenor. "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues" Rev 18:4
Click here to reply to this post

  1. Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
    Posted On: 08/28/07 01:16:35 PMAge 43, KY
    With all due respect brother, I think you are wrong. Peter didn't carry a sword to peel olives and figs! Now, don't get me wrong, Yahushua didn't teach open warfare with those who didn't believe, but He nor the Father taught total passiveness either. A totally passive man wouldn't have gone into the temple and trashed the place (money changers). I totally passive King would not be returning to wipe out all those who take up arms against the believers and Israel. You really should do a little more research and study, and this time try looking at it from the view of the folks whom it was written to... the Jews. Swords, spear, firearms are all merely tools, used by men to accomplish specific task. Did Yahushua spend a lot of time preaching about disarmament? No. Wouldn't you think that if Yahushua had be dead set against swords, He would have forbidden Peter, the man with the Keys, from carrying one? I would imagine He would have, as He didn't have a problem expressing Himself! Just a thought. Mark
    Click here to reply to this post

  2. Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
    Posted On: 08/28/07 12:33:09 PMAge 50, MN
    Your approach is becoming more rare in today's world. Thank you for being a ray of warmth.
    Click here to reply to this post

Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 11:54:13 AM Age 56, MN
Interesting article. There are many sides to this discussion. First, the pastors today, they can only be pastors if people are following them. WHO wants to follow a spineless PASTOR, answer it seems many, the churches are filled with people, who only go to stamp a time card, to say they were there, they want to hang out and do coffee, seems they are loney, guess they dont have the LORD to fill them up. (SO can one really expect that these Pastors are going to do their jobs, NOPE and they dont. SECOND< as far as US changing the course of events, THAT is not going to happen. I LOVE prophecy teachers, but I laugh when they make it sound like we are going to change the course of events. God has a plan and no man will stop it or change it. God uses evil for good after all. Hilter was part of the plan of GOD, could man stop what happened, not if it was GODS plan. WE cant stop or change the plan of GOD,but WE dont have to go ALONG with evil men. PAUL never went along with evil men, even tho PAUL new he would one day be killed because of that rebellion to them. I dont have to go along with what is happening, does that mean I will alter any part of GODS plan, NO. ME not going along with evil,ONLY shows where MY heart is. In order for GOD to fulfill his plan of sending Christ to the cross, MUCH EVIL was allowed. THAT is the SOVEREIGN WILL of GOD, and no man will thart that, NO matter HOW evil it looks to us. CHRIST cant return until his full plan has been done.
Click here to reply to this post



Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 11:25:41 AM Age 35, OR
Fine article and many strong points to ponder. However, be careful when invoking Dietrich Bonhoeffer as an example of godly resistance of evil in the world. The Lord usually employs ungodly men to punish ungodly princes, and Hitler was brought to nothing merely six days after Bonhoeffer was hung for his part in the failed assassination attempt. God didn't call Dietrich to kill the madman (were it so, then success would have been assured, no doubt). No, that was Dietrich's own desire that he baptized with good intentions. He was piously confused and forgot about the Sovereign Lord who executes judgments throughout the earth while preserving His remnant. If the author of this article believes that the Lord will not hold Dietrich responsible for trying to kill Hitler, what kind of message does that send to all of us who would love to see abortion end this minute? On what basis does the author think the Holy One will pass over attempted murder when it too was one of the many sins for which Jesus died? Let the ungodly be used to administer death and judgment in this age upon those for whom it is reserved, but you should go and preach the gospel!
Click here to reply to this post

  1. Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
    Posted On: 08/28/07 12:00:15 PMAge 61, MO
    I would not presume to pass eternal judgment on Bonhoffer, but let me pose a hypothetical situation: Let say that a Christian is driving through town and has a hunting rifle in his vehicle. He comes across a scene where there is a gunman shooting people in the streets. It would be an act of love for that Christian to shoot that gunman? George Cancilla
    Click here to reply to this post

    1. Re: Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
      Posted On: 08/28/07 02:27:22 PMAge 35, OR
      Judging the sinful deeds of Hitler or Bonhoeffer is quite different than condemning them as souls (for which this is reserved for Christ alone). By your logic/misunderstanding we would not even hold ourselves in contempt of God's law since we would somehow be playing the role of judge. Be discerning and not reactionary. Your analogy of seeing an evildoer in the act while possessing power to stop them is not quite equivalent in Bonhoeffer's case. You extrapolate personal responsibility to do good when possible upon the national scene where not only individuals are involved but entire peoples. The difference is that we are not expected to change the world, but we can do good as those opportunities intersect with us personally. Colluding and conspiring with a team of insiders to take out an evil despot is not the work of the Kingdom of God, as the Lord Jesus would have His people busy themselves heaping coals of fire on their enemies with stubborn love. There is no biblical mandate nor historical precedent for true followers of Jesus to assassinate anyone. This too is sin, and must be dealt with at the cross or ultimately upon the sinner when Jesus judges all.
      Click here to reply to this post

Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 10:21:20 AM Age 61, MO
Pastors should not agree to violate the US Constitution, and have no Biblical mandate to support a governing authority that does violate it. I further agree that there is a Biblical mandate for self defense. I thank you for bringing this issue up because of its urgent importance, even though it has been addressed by others on this site, like Chuck Baldwin. The wisdom of the framers of the Constitution is consistent with the lessons of the Bible. Instruments of defense should be dispersed throughout the nation, not concentrated in the hands of the central government. The government should hvae no cause to want a monopoly of force. A government that desires such a monopoly is a threat to the lives, liberty and property of its citizens. The assumption that only danger can result from people carrying guns is used to justify government monopoly of force. If Christ is not our King, we shall have a dictator to rule over us, just as Samuel warned. George Cancilla
Click here to reply to this post



Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
Posted On: 08/28/07 10:14:36 AM Age 51, MI
I somewhat disagree with you on this point. When we interpret Scripture, it helps to consider the example set by the writers themselves. The governing authority during New Testament times was much more repressive than our current government, yet we don't see armed rebellion, or even self defense practiced by early Christians. The Apostles only refused to refrain from preaching the Truth. This seems to be the only occasion of disobedience against government. All went willingly to their deaths. Would the Apostle Paul preach against homosexuality? Absolutely! Would he, with sword in hand, defend his right to do so? Absolutely not!
Click here to reply to this post

  1. Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
    Posted On: 08/28/07 01:50:52 PMAge 45, IL
    Ahem...Paul asserted his rights as a Roman Citizen to have his case heard by Cesar. That was a right of a Roman Citizen. We also have rights that are enumerated in the constitution and it would not be improper for us to assert those rights either.
    Click here to reply to this post

    1. Re: Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
      Posted On: 08/29/07 09:45:21 AMAge 51, MI
      Of course Paul defended himself in court. I would do the same. But Paul did not draw his sword against Rome. WWJD. I know of only one instance where a sword was drawn, and we know our Lord's response to that. True Christianity thrives where Christians are persecuted. Apostasy thrives where Christianity rules. This is a fact, brother. I enjoy our freedom. Don't get me wrong. But I yearn for the relationship with Him that was enjoyed by the members of the early Church, none of whom took up arms against their government.
      Click here to reply to this post

  2. Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
    Posted On: 08/28/07 01:39:31 PMAge 43, KY
    I somewhat disagree with you on this point. When we interpret Scripture, it helps to consider the example set by the writers themselves. The governing authority during New Testament times was much more repressive than our current government, yet we don't see armed rebellion, or even self defense practiced by early Christians. The Apostles only refused to refrain from preaching the Truth. This seems to be the only occasion of disobedience against government. All went willingly to their deaths. Would the Apostle Paul preach against homosexuality? Absolutely! Would he, with sword in hand, defend his right to do so? Absolutely not As always, with all due respect you are wrong in your assertion that they didn't rebel and the only crime they were guilty of was preaching the good news. Why did the Jewish leader want to execute Yahushua? For breaking the laws of the Talmud... Yahushua Hammashiach broke as many of the laws of the Talmud, which was considered open rebellion, as the Jews of Yahushua's time all were under the rule of the Talmud and to a lesser extent, according to the Jewish leaders of the time, the Mosaic Law, with the Talmud superseding the Mosaic Law. Did He take up arms against the Jewish leaders or the Romans? He had no need to, as rebelling against the Talmud (Oral Laws) wasn't His only purpose for being there, as you should know. Nor was He going to allow Himself to be killed before the Passover. As for their government being much more repressive than ours, please give some examples of how so. Mark
    Click here to reply to this post

    1. Re: Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
      Posted On: 08/29/07 11:05:44 AMAge 51, MI
      I respectfully disagree, brother. Jesus (Yahushua) came unto His own & His own received Him not. We know His purpose, we all know why He violated Jewish law, which was a gross misrepresentation of God's (His own) Law. We are discussing armed rebellion, armed defense, physical force, are we not? Show me where Jesus used a sword. We do not follow Muhammed. Lets get back to the example of the Apostles, who I believe gave sufficient instruction as to how we are to behave. I see no example or instruction to take up arms against anyone, including the Government. As Hal Lindsey has said, "We are not told to clean up the pond, only to fish in it". You asked for examples of how the Roman Government was more repressive than that of the U.S.A., correct? Are you serious? We may not have far to go, but until my head is separated from my body, we're not there yet. A Christian living in Saudi Arabia can truly appreciate what the Apostles endured.
      Click here to reply to this post

  3. Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
    Posted On: 08/28/07 12:07:42 PMAge 61, MO
    Jesus was angry when He chased the moneychangers from the temple. The Jews and the Roman government were colluded to control the people. Such is the case in the world today. George Cancilla
    Click here to reply to this post

Read More Feedback

Post Feedback
We would like to post your feedback, but please keep your feedback short and clean. All feedback will be reviewed before it is posted. We encourage healthy debating but will not accept feedback with personal attacks. Commenting on a person's public statements, actions and writings is not considered a personal attack. Please limit your feedback to less than 750 words. Comments written in ALL CAPS will not be posted.

All fields are required. Your age and state will be posted on the site, but your personal information will NOT. If you would like your name to be posted with your feedback, you must include it in your feedback text.

First Name:
Last Name:
Email Address:
City:
State: OR Country:
Age:
Feedback Title:
Your Feedback
(no HTML):
Save my information for next time.



Notice: By entering your email address, you agree to join the
Worldview Weekend email alert system.



Worldview Weekend
Family Reunion
Branson, Missouri
April 23, 24, 25, 2010
Worldview Weekend
Training Institute
Memphis/Collierville, TN
April 9th & 10th, 2010