Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/19/07 05:59:29 AM |
Age 44, IL |
Steve / Anyone,
Willow Creek has been held up in this discussion for their possible weakness in an area of ministry. Can we discuss examples of another church that is particularly strong in this same area? If the article were written from a positive position, about a church who is doing this "right". Who would we be talking about?
Peace, JT
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/16/07 10:10:33 AM |
Age 51, MI |
Dear Pastor Cornell,
I too share your concerns for the feeding and shepherding of Christ's whole flock and very much appreciate your inquisitorial article of "seeker" focused churches. I had to address this issue before becoming a member of a sister church to Willow Creek, Baypoint Community Church, where I have found a venue to share my faith and knowledge of scripture with great purpose. This venue is one your article neglected to mention in considering Willow Creek's format; the importance of it's Life-Groups (often called small-groups).
My personal experience with former generations of the post-modern church community left me severely withdrawn from a Christian-based community, yet at my Baypoint home, I have found a very inclusive (the "come in as you are" attitude of love) invitation to live in peace with others in our fallen world on many Sunday mornings. This often requires a humble and loving spirit as exhibited by our Saviour.
As members we are expected to: live in grace, commit to growth, be in a group, use our gifts, and practice good stewardship.
As members we have four major resonsibilities to bring into church --
1) Personal Purity: To bring to the church a submitted, Spirit-filled self.
2) Relational Integrity: To pursue honorable and loving relationships; in the family; among friends, coworkers, neighbors, and the body of Christ.
3)Organizational Loyalty: To contribute to the church our time, talents, treasure, and to be responsive to the leadership God has established.
4) Interpersonal Maturity: To seek to serve more than to be served (see John 13:12-15).
These are important biblical attitudes that Christians (especially experienced) need to bring into their churches.
The purpose of the Life/Small Group is to focus on specific needs of members--this is to include "substancial meat-eating"!
I encourage ALL wise and knowledgeable Christians to SERVE fellow human beings who are seeking the Kingdom of Christ.
Blessing you and yours,
Mary Lou Scacciaferro
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/15/07 01:56:28 PM |
Age 56, IL |
I agree with this article.
I've never been invited to attend the leadership conference, but I had been an Elder in five previous churches, in five different cities before I moved to Barrington.
Then I started attending Willow Creek. I could see how WC was reaching thousands of seekers by turning the Sunday morning service into a seeker sensitive service and how they were reaching a lost generation which other churches were not reaching.
However I strongly disagree with the idea that others have stated in feedback that WC teaches the whole Bible. They don't. Even their "advanced type classes" are pretty watered down.
When I tried to get more involved I felt totally unwelcome. WC does not have a place for a mature Christian, unless Bill hired one to be on staff.
When my wife became abusive, instead of helping me deal with the pain, their divorce recovery class hounded me to find out how I had failed my wife. What I had done to drive her away?
The abused women in the class were not treated this way. Abused women were supported and were not harassed like I was.
Keep in mind I had already won sole cusotdy of my children before I attended their divorce recovery class. Yet they treated me as if I was abusive.
I soon ran into other men at WC who had been abused by their wives and one by one WC was asked us all to leave.
I then started attending the church where a previous marriage counselor my wife and I had seen was an Elder and that church welcomed me with open arms.
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/15/07 01:06:33 AM |
Age 54, WI |
I can see why you said many of the things you did, and as with so many conferences, it's always a matter of separating wheat from chaff, and gleaning what is good, or what applies to oneself personally, or one's ministry situation. It's unfortunate that you missed the Carter presentation. I had reservations about him (for a variety of reasons) but was surprisingly impressed with his willingness to stand up for his faith, as in the Noebel Peace Prize acceptance shown, and in the interview in general about his life. I have a different level of respect for him because of standing up for what he believes as opposed to many of the current state and federal leaders who cower and make no mention of their faith in their daily existence, nor in their decision making. I may not agree with him politically in most situations but I was encouraged to stand up stronger for what I believe.
It would be interesting for every congregation to do the same level of survey that Willow did of itself and see if some of those same findings are made. How different is our love and yearning for God and His Word from when we first believed compared to when we've settled back and possibly taken Him for granted? Many marriages seem to go that way. It's unfortunate that as the bride of Christ we don't have as fervent love for the 'groom' as we should, ... and growing in that love.
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/14/07 10:08:27 PM |
Age 41, NM |
Thanks Steve, this was a great article. I felt the same way going to Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Church conference in southern California. Especially with regards to survey outsiders to see what thye wanted church to be and tailoring church for them.
Your use of 1 Corinthians 14 is most helpful.
Thanks again.
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/14/07 07:35:05 PM |
Age 47, NC |
Good article Steve, I have found the teaching in almost all of the "conservative evangelical" churches that I've attended is reduced to the lowest common denominator. We're not only not feeding the mature christians but we're actually creating an underclass of immature christians. That's assuming we're actually getting true conversions. These "seekers" come in and are never seriously challenged in the vast majority of mainline churches. Because of this I find that the typical christian, having sat in a pew for 20 or more years, knows correct answers to life questions but does not really understand those answers. I believe the church has drifted too far and compromised too much for there to be any significant change before Christ's return. God bless those that understand the problem and are faithful to God's work.
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/14/07 05:21:58 PM |
Age 18, IN |
Pastor Cornell:
I have to be honest with you; when I clicked on your article, I was fully prepared to tell you why you were being unreasonable and why you were attacking a fellow group of believers unnecessarily, but then I read your article. (I have read many articles on this site that did indeed attack unnecessarily and skew situations for their own benefit.)
Your gentle diction (for the most part); however, allowed me to understand your point of view. My church, too, tends to follow in the general direction of Willow Creek, and I am very proud of much of what we have done. Simultaneously, I find myself unfed, unchallenged, and disappointed when gatherings seem to be imbalanced. (I have no problem with creative, entertaining elements in a church service, but if there is less spiritual depth than adrenaline initiation, there is something wrong.)
In closing, thank you for your article. I do not agree with everything you have said, but I appreciate your point of view.
God Bless,
Steven P.
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/14/07 04:33:33 PM |
Age 52, MN |
I'm alittle bit disappointed by Steve's criticism of the conference. I enjoyed it and got alot out of it. I think it is good for us pastors to be reminded to remind the all christians to be self-feeders. It's not that they (the older believers) won't receive something from our weekly messages, but really, they are responsible for their own spiritual growth. We live in a consumer age when so many people come to church with the attitude, "What are you going to do for me today?" instead of "I'm here to help out." Colin Powel's leadership tips were priceless and the filmaker challenges all of us to do what we can do to help the poor.
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/14/07 02:57:27 PM |
Age 56085, MN |
I appreciate Steve Cornell's restraint and humility in this and his other articles. These are among the best of CWN. While I disagree with his conclusions, including his assertion that Willowcreek exhibits weak ecclesiology and weak theology, it is refreshing to read a gentle evaluation instead of the angry rants that are typical posts on this site. Well done!
Why skip the session with Jimmy Carter? Can we not learn from those with whom we disagree? Do we have to be Democratic voters before we're willing to listen to a Democrat? Kudos to Willowcreek for putting Jimmy Carter on the conference platform. And kudos to Saddleback for putting Barack Obama on the conference platform.
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Re: Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit
| Posted On: 08/14/07 11:27:36 AM |
Age 100, DC |
I think that there is a place for the Willow Creeks of the world in the church body.
The categories they came up with are good. The church, on Sunday morning especially, should be for the fully committed christian. Other times and days of the week can be devoted to attendants of various degrees of spiritual levels from seeker all the way up!
The most important thing I can see, though, is that seekers are aware that they are NOT believers! Of course, how this is done, is the nuance that has to be carefully addressed.
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