Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 01:08:43 PM |
Age 28, TX |
I do agree with a certain amount of seeker sensitive programs and marketing, but there needs to be balance. Reading this article reminded me of something our church did. Two years ago the pastor and elders decided to tear down a house owned by the church which was blocking the view of the church from the street. The idea was that the church would have more street visibility/presence because a new big church was being built nearly next door. I was very disappointed, because I felt that house could be used by the church in a variety of ministry outreaches and moving or tearing it down would be a waste of church resources (meaning the house, not so much the money to do away with it.) The reasoning behind getting rid of the church was, in my mind, quite a faulty one. Well, one of the businesses is now adding on and blocking the view of the church from the street! They could have kept the house after all.
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Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 12:56:51 PM |
Age 55, CA |
From 24 years of being a church insider, staff, etc. I can tell you the emphasis is on growth, not being conformed to the image and likeness of Christ Jesus. Have you ever noticed VERY few Christians look like the role models of the disciples in scripture? WWe learned far more about growth programs, buildings, organizations, and leadership multiplication techniques than holiness, death to self life, meeting the needs of the brethren, and manifesting the works of "Christ IN you".
Look at the abundance of Christian "stars". What a stark contrast to the disciples of Jesus. -Rory Moore
www.preparehisway.com
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Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 12:55:56 PM |
Age 55, CA |
From 24 years of being a church insider, staff, etc. I can tell you the emphasis is on growth, not being conformed to the image and likeness of Christ Jesus. Have you ever noticed VERY few Christians look like the role models of the disciples in scripture? WWe learned far more about growth programs, buildings, organizations, and leadership multiplication techniques than holiness, death to self life, meeting the needs of the brethren, and manifesting the works of "Christ IN you".
Look at the abundance of Christian "stars". What a stark contrast to the disciples of Jesus. -Rory Moore
www.preparehisway.com
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- Re: Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/05/07 09:05:16 AM | | Age 45, CA |
You are so right. And the teaching of those important issues will often lower your attendence. Because we are in the Laodicean age, we're at the end, and people want their ears tickled, and peole leave for piddly reasons. We just lost our most promising young man and his family because we weren't "given to hospitality" (meaning we didn't let them into our messy house when they showed up at 9 or 10 pm without calling, we talked to them outside, and sorry, we often have an empty refrigerator and cupboards and don't have snacks for visitors at the ready.)
Also because I, the wife , was not a "keeper at home" meaning I work, and I don't have (can't have) kids. Proverbs 31 woman was a working woman.
This family's wife never cooked or sewed or or gardened or kept food animals (I do) until she and her husband joined a plain clothes brethren and suddenly she was interested at least in the cooking and sewing, so in this regard, I consider it a good growth for her. We know they are saved and they really wanted more interaction which we couldn't give them. But it's a cruddy reason for leaving a church. They were going to both churches for months. But the head covering issue also became a stumblingblock to them.
We know this is all Satan's hand, we see Satan causing fights and rifts between Christians all the time. We'll go with a high of 25-30 for months, then someone will disappear, and we never can get out of them why, or a fight will erupt and a family will stop because of that. And my husband preaches the solid doctrines. But their hearts are hardened to it. We've prayed and fasted. But I think we need to go on at least a three day fast. Longer would be better.
My husband's website www.forministry.com/uscaindbcbbc1
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Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 11:59:51 AM |
Age 067, AL |
Great post. The only thing I see is the church growth people have added a few more.
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Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 10:39:44 AM |
Age 65, FL |
Very good artcle. I went to a church for 15 years, as did my children and grandchildren. The church got a new minister and music minister. The new idea was to make the church grow and it did. Completely remodeled and added a gym and beautiful church offices etc... Something had changed though. I didn't feel at home in the church I had spent so many years supporting. Everything was money. Charges for weddings and the preacher even expected to get $100. for speaking at my Mother's funeral. My Father was an ordained Methodist minister and he gave back to the church the entire salary the church paid him. My new church was all fake. If you didn't do whatever job you were asked to do, you got the "cold shoulder". The pastor was shaking my hand after the service and looking over my shoulder to the next person before I had gotten out a "hello". Broke my heart to leave that church but no one ever even called to ask what happened. I did get a bill for the rest of my pledge that year.I figure all those years working at VBS and teaching Sunday School and all the other free work my family and I did should cover it.
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Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 10:27:08 AM |
Age 52, LA |
Jesus grew His church by obeying The Father. He died to self. Man can't grow The Father's church, if he does, it's a satanic organization. There is only One church and you must Be Born into it. If somoeone 'joins' anything, they made a deal with devil himself.
The True Gospel of Jesus will send more people away than it attracts. (John 6:66) I kind of like the 'church of the sinking ship' in Acts 27, where All must be lost in order for all to be saved.
These 'leadership' principles are just desinged to 'keep the customer satisfied'.
Spirtual prostituion will keep the 'christian john's' coming back for thier weekly fix. Thanking the spiritual pimp for another exciting experience.
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Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 10:20:47 AM |
Age 60, KS |
Great article. I see this happening all around me in my community. Having said this, I also want to stress the importance of not only preaching the Gospel but what the Gospel writers were telling us.
Sermons can be very exciting when Gospel messages are stressed in relation to their meaning in everyones lives. Simply, how to live in God's Love.
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Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 10:03:56 AM |
Age 29, MD |
I couldn't agree more. The seeker-friendly church model is not what church is supposed to be at all. Church is a place for believers to worship, learn, and pray. It is not a coffee house or an entertainment venue. If seekers come to church, that is great, but worship is about God, not about marketing.
When did God's house stop being primarily a house of prayer? When did "vision casting" replace the guidance of the Holy Spirit? When did cheesy, sanitized entertainment become a way to attract people to Christ?
I'm sad.
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Re: Ten Ways To Grow a Church Without God
| Posted On: 07/03/07 09:44:57 AM |
Age 48, NC |
What about 1 Corinthians 3, which indicates that NONE of us make the church grow? "Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it." (1 Cor. 3:5-10 NKJV) This passages says that GOD makes the church grow, and that our responsibility as members of the Body of Christ is to focus on QUALITY ("let each one take heed HOW he builds") rather than quantity.
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