Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/31/07 09:50:29 AM |
Age 50, IL |
I read most of the articles and some feedback found in the Worldview emails. I have never replied; yet when I read your article I had to reply. My wife and I, for about a year now, are pastoring a church of around 50 with 80% being over the age of 50. Nothing unusual until you know that before this we spent 7 years as youth pastors in a top notch youth facility with sub-woofers that would rattle the steel beams. We have had to live your article. Hymns vs. choruses, full bands vs. a single piano or organ. It was like going to another country. Prayerfully we have learned the following:
You minister to whom the Lord sends you. We do many hospital visits and one day a week is dedicated to home visits (what a change).
The most important principle we have learned is that it is not in the methodology that lives are changed, it is in His presence. Praising and worshipping God is not motivated by hymns or choruses, bands or pianos, but by a heart full of the love of God. Whatever the method prioritize His presence!
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Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/31/07 09:43:47 AM |
Age 50, OH |
Great Job, may more of the younger christians read this......may they seek the truth....it's only found one place...the word of God
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Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/31/07 08:41:03 AM |
Age 37, WV |
A resounding AMEN! My grandparents are the godliest people I have ever met. From the time I was a little girl on up, they would come visit and read me Bible stories and kneel with me by my bed as I said my prayers. I have a wonderful legacy with them! I have since seen both of them crying as if heartbroken, tears rolling down their faces as they show me their "church's" bulletin and tell me of the crap that goes on there. They are CHARTER members of that church, having gone faithfully all these years even when it first started in the basement of a small tourist shop years ago... until the monsterous entity it is today with it's huge buildings and multiple services. You can see the pain as they talk of the pews being taken out and round tables put in for people to drink coffee around as the pastor preaches. They say they are just too old to go to another church... and nobody there seems to have any use for them. These are salt of the earth types that love their Lord more than anything!!! She taught Sunday School for decades, he was a deacon. Now in their 90's- they are of no use? When did the youngsters stop seeking the wisdom of the elders? This couple has been through so much through the years, and are now "worthless" in the eyes of the church. Perhaps the new generation can see a glimpse of their shallowness shadowed in the loving but sad eyes of the older generation?
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Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/31/07 08:28:11 AM |
Age 27, MI |
Effective missionaries around the world today do not go into a culture and make disciples by trying to conform new Christians to their traditional American church image. They work to understand the people group, learn the language, explore their customs and find ways to introduce Jesus to them in a way that connects. All missionaries do not use the same techniques and patterns to share the Gospel. The Gospel is the same, the message and the power of the Holy Spirit - still active. But, the way it's shared, if not in a language or medium understandable to the people, is often ineffective. It is not sinful to seek to connect the Gospel to where people are - instead of expecting them to conform to what we are comfortable with. If people are encountering Jesus in a real way through multimedia, new kinds of music and creative sermon illustrations, then so be it. It's not about the latest fad - it's about doing whatever it takes while depending on the foundation of the Bible. It's not a sin or cataclismic to "Grandma's church" when Jesus is being glorified and people's lives are being forever changed by the Good News, being presented in a way that a different set of people understand. When I am a Grandma, (pending the Lord's return), I want to be a part of sharing the message of Jesus Christ. And if that means moving out of my comfort zone to meet and connect with people, so be it. We often forget that our lives are not our own - it's not about me anymore, what I'm used to. It's about Christ living in me and being his hands and feet. Let's be willing to let go of preconceived notions of what church "used to be" and focus on being led by the Spirit to share the Good News using whatever methods, forms, languages it takes. Jesus did it. Paul did it. Why do we get up in arms when people do it today? Obviously, there are some who do church today to glorify themselves, but let's not brand all who do "something different" as being contrary to the heart of God.
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- Re: Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 06/07/07 03:25:36 AM | | Age 71, CA |
I am a white haried christian that loves the old hymns because of thier ability to meet us where we have needs in our lives... when I lost my son I longed to hear "Dose Jesus Care?"... On 9/11 I longed for " Oh God our help in ages passed" But we didn't because our church has turned to youth services and chourses even tho the evening service is youth only. I believe our Lord did critize the synagoge of His day as well. When we have to find other places out side our churches to sing our praise to the Father of our grace and salvation there is something lacking that the church is losing because it has lost a desire to uphold the needs of all its members and seems to want to put on a show for those that will only come if they are enterained
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Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/31/07 08:01:34 AM |
Age 48, WA |
I liked this article very much, thank-you for posting it. It opens a great opportunity to press us into thinking/action. I would add two things to the discussion:
1. My own greatgrandmother prayed for me before I was born, before she even knew of my existance. She prayed faithfully for the salvation of her living and not yet living relatives. This awareness and model of Godliness and love have been one of the anchors of my life. God faithfully answered her prayers . . .
2. When I was a young mother, I had many more questions than I could find answers for. I cared about raising my children in a God-honoring and way, raising a bar above the futility of our culture. I could find help in books and eventually homeschool curriculum, but where were the living, walking, Titus women? Where was a living example of the Proverbs 31 woman? I was so hungry for guidance, starved for wise discussion. Sadly, I came to realize that they are very rare, as are good, God-fearing men -- healthy, balanced and wise. I think this generation is screaming for the grammas and grampas, but not just because of their years, but because of their genuine example.
We are to first become these men and women; God will plant us in the midst of a lost culture. I believe many if not most of our youth (as were we in our youth) have been abandoned to falseness by their parents and pastors.
I occasionally vist a very VERY modern church here in my city, one where I do indeed stand out as a middle-aged woman. What I see are hundreds of twenty-somethings looking for the genuine God of the universe, sense their despair over the failure of the "grey-heads". I attend often, just to be in a place to speak reverently and guide with wisdom, beleive God will have a purpose in this. I get stares, glares, quizzical looks, find myself smiling in return, wishing I were carrying a sign that read, "I COME IN PEACE & MEAN YOU NO HARM" !! I would urge each passionate reader to do like -- go and see what is behind the foolishness of the day, attend to the hearts and speak to the minds of this searching generation. Plant seeds that you may never see, like the seed of prayer from my greatgrandmother -- a seed I was never able to thank her for -- she died when I was yet a small child. Humbly apply yourself to becomming a worthy grey-head and go and tell them.
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Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/26/07 10:25:02 AM |
Age 33, FL |
Sadly no one ever considers that it is Grandma's Church (post WWII) that is the creator and forerunner of the modern generation. You can throw up your hands and say "These kids..." but the fact is that they are exactly what you taught them to be. Of course it is much easier to say "Well, I never..." and absolve yourselves of your own sins.
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- Re: Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/28/07 02:23:12 AM | | Age 43, NC |
Ahhh, the echo continues from the Garden of Eden, "it's not my fault the woman gave it to me... it's not my fault the serpent beguiled me... it's not my fault 'grand-ma and grand-pa made it this way.'" but what have you/we/I done to stand against such apostasy and heresy? Ooohhhh, make a stand? No, no, no, no-one would ever tolerate such an intolerant position that requires such absolute convictions. No, we must be seeker friendly, even when the Word of God tells us there is no such animal. None seeks after righteousness, no not one. besides it won't be long before someone comes up with a final solution for those who become a burden on society. Our society can't afford all those "old" people anyway. If the church is so willing to discard them then why should society bear such an un-necessary burden?? (reality is not so far removed from my satire here)
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- Re: Re: Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 06/05/07 11:36:51 AM | | Age 33, FL |
Actually, I left the Institutional Church of my grandparents and started my own, a church that is dedicated to one purpose: making disciples of Jesus Christ. Of course I said nothing in my post about all that clap trap you spouted, I just mentioned the fact that those who are so highly touted as being the "best thing for the church" are in fact just as much to blame for its current condition as the young people are. But it's much easier to just say "It's all your fault! Now you pesky kids get off my lawn!" :)
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- Re: Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/27/07 10:16:56 PM | | Age 30, IA |
That's true, but what are you doing to bring the church back on the right track?
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- Re: Re: Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/31/07 08:46:26 AM | | Age 38, WV |
What am I going to do? Same thing YOU are going to do, as well as all of us reading and posting and the countless others who love their Lord across this nation should do- PRAY. Intercede. Plead for God's mercy. Ask Him to give us boldness to stand up for Him and NOT stand this mockery of Him. Heaven help us if we continue to pass the buck to the next guy.
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Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/25/07 11:21:11 PM |
Age 58, AUSTRALIA |
Hurrah! I totally agree. I am 58 years old. I do love technology, and music. I have been through a lot of movements in the church, now I know, christianity is the daily things I do, that show my heart. To be kind to people, to consider others first. My Sundays are to meet with my Lords people, to encourage, build up, and to be built up, get back on track, to learn and to give thanks. I don't need a big fancy church or band to do these things. I do see the worshipping of youth, is very strong in the church. It is so sad, that all ages are not cared for. having recently dealt with this, in my fellowship, I can truly say, my peace is with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I worship Him in spirit and truth. I would like to be needed in church etc. If I'm not, it does not affect my christian walk. except to make it stronger. I have previously learned this.
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Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/25/07 10:46:55 PM |
Age 33, MN |
Once again, you hit it square on. Amen--the last thing our country needs now is more flabby "relevant" church services. It was our Grandmas' (and well before Grandma!) churches that made our country great to begin with. Why can't these churches see this? The Word is relevant, all the time, by itself, in all situations. God doesn't need to be gussied up to appeal to anyone.
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- Re: Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/31/07 10:31:33 AM | | Age 25, WA |
It was not our grandmothers and grandfathers that made the church what it is today, they are the church! The church is the body of believers, not the building or the program. If you reject the older generation, you are rejecting the "church" itself. For they are just as much a part as any one of us. Oh, what we young independant arrogant youth could learn from the elder women and men in the body of Christ!!
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Re: NOT Your Grandma's Church
| Posted On: 05/25/07 06:13:59 PM |
Age 51, NE |
Excellent points, however, a word of caution. This has been going on for so long, that now some of the Grandmas are the ones wanting the great-grandmas to get out of the way...
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