Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 07/31/07 03:35:51 PM |
Age 31, NY |
Please Jan, on the point about the Talmud your pathetic response was you need a hate-break.......Sorry to hurt your feelings Jan, but the Talmud is full of vile things against Christ, his earthly mother, Christians and the goyim. Rabbinic Judaism is not Christianity minus Jesus or minus the new testament. It is the traditions of men reinterpreting the hebrew scriptures to make the law of god of none effect.
You may object to Pike's phrase "evil jewish leaders", but is that not what abe foxman and his gang are? They are promoting every extreme liberal cause and so-called hate crime laws..that will persecute christians.
Stick to the facts:
1) Talmudism = Rabbinic Judaism = anti-christian, anti-goyim ( Talmud States Jesus was a false miracle/magic worker who led people astray and is in excrement in hell, mary his mother was a harlot, gentiles are animals in human form ).
2) ADL is Jewish
3) Jesus is the way, not a secular Jewish state.
As crazy as the muslims are, what sense does it make to be pro-Israel, but ignore the Jewish people need to know Jesus? like Apostate John Hagee?
4) Basically any criticism of Israel or Rabbinic Judaism is deserving of the label anti-semite and that ends the conversation with you...I doubt you know the Lord or love him..because if you did you would be exposing the truth of the vile doctrines of Rabbinic Judaism towards non-jews, esp. christians and you would be pleading with Jews to come to know Christ and seek his kingdom not a earlthy kingdom based half on "orthodox rabbinism ( which is anti-christian)" and half secular extreme liberal and athiest!!
How can you defend Talmudism, and claim to be a follower of Jesus at the same time Jan?
Is your Lord and Savior a false messiah who practiced magic he learned in Egypt and now burns in excrement in Hell? Is it okay to have sex with underage boys, well that's what you are defending when you defend that perverted tradition.
Do former Mormons who are Christians defend Mormonism, No...they rebuke it..but they still love Mormons.
True Christians Love all people including there enemies and part of the includes rebuke. So I rebuke you Jan in the hopes you come to your senses and stop your racist attitudes.
Finally we are not supposed to fear men but God. Not Jews Not Islamo Fascists not so-called Christians.
I sense you hate muslims and would be glad to see every Arab dead.
5) do you deny that athiest jews were at the top levels of the bolshevik revolution?
Is it true or false thats all that matters.
Stop attacking brother Pike cause you do not like how he says things. He says things that are true.
Look right now as of today they meaning the ADL are still trying to push Hate crime laws.
Repent Jan and become converted and stop defending rabbinism/talmudism and expose it.
Click here to reply to this post
|
Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/27/07 07:24:18 AM |
Age 50, MN |
Jan,
You need to throw away your Scolfield bible and stop listening to serial divorcer Hal Lindsey for your information concerning Israel.
We know that a Gentile is only blessed through Jesus Christ, on account of grace by faith, not on account of race/nationality. This is confirmed, in relation to Israelites as well, in Romans 2:28-29, which states, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit." The inheritance of a people, therefore, is clearly not based upon nationality, but upon a Spiritual measure. Galatians 3:6 and 3:29 tells us, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." And we are also taught, "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"
For another confirmation of who 'God's chosen people' really are, Galatians 6:15-16 tells us, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God." Paul is certainly not saying that the Old Covenant nation of Israel walks after that "rule" (salvation), as he knows clearly that they are lost, and will perish in their sins without Christ. Neither is Paul wishing peace upon the lost nation, for, having "great heaviness and continual sorrow in (his) heart" (Romans 9:1) regarding them, he knows the only peace is in Jesus Christ. Therefore, it appears, according to Scripture, that the only Biblical Israelite is the individual, regardless of lineage, who is 'in Christ' through salvation.
This fact is confirmed in the rest of Scripture, most notably by the very definition of who is Israel. The typological role of Israel as a temporal picture of Christ is declared early in the Bible, and is maintained throughout. Exodus 4:22 establishes this principle at the very birth of the nation:
Exodus 4:22 "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Obviously, Christ is the only begotten son of God, and his firstborn.
Isaiah 41:8-9, likewise looking ahead to Jesus, refers to Israel as "my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend."
Hebrews 2:16, in reference to Jesus Christ, states that he "took on him the seed of Abraham."
Isaiah 49:1-3 reads, "...The Lord hath called me from the womb... and hath made my mouth like a sharp sword...and said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified." In verses 5-6, this same servant, Israel, is identified as raising up the tribes of Jacob, restoring the preserved of Israel, and being given for a light to the Gentiles, that he may be the Lord's salvation unto the end of the earth.
For yet another confirmation that Jesus Christ is the true Israel, Hebrews 12:23 refers to the saved as the "church of the firstborn" (who is Israel).
Just as the Old Covenant nation of Israel was after the flesh, named after a fleshly man, the New Covenant nation of Israel is a heavenly nation, named after a heavenly man, who is Christ. Jacob/Israel is therefore a picture of Jesus/Israel.
Now, the ONLY 'nation' that the kingdom of God belongs to is the same nation of I Peter 2:9, which reads, "But ye (those in Christ) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation.." And Christ Himself clearly identified that "nation" by the word He spoke to His disciples, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12:32).
CONCLUSION: God's Only 'Chosen Person' is Jesus Christ, and those in Him.
Click here to reply to this post
|
Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/24/07 10:19:53 AM |
Age 52, FL |
I believe we're talking about 2 separate things here - the physical land promised to Abrahm, Isaac and Jacob and the spiritual renewal of Israel. Romans 11 explains it quite well.
Click here to reply to this post
|
Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/23/07 06:29:43 PM |
Age 20, MN |
Do you realize that Israel is not a only secular state, but also that it's Jewish population is largely ethnic jews and not as any religious jews as people think. This is not the Israel that is talked about in the bible i think. I am not claiming anything, just giving food for thought. Because, what i see is a nation that was created for all the misplaced jews after WWII, and Hitler didnt focus just on religion, he focused on race and ethnicity. A large number of jews were ethnic jews, and europe decided to put a whole bunch of them into one area and call it israel, but i just dont see much backing that this the restored israel on the grounds that the nation is a secular state, and that it captures Palestinians and imprisons them without trial. -Dan Smith
Click here to reply to this post
|
- Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/24/07 04:51:57 PM | | Age 25, FL |
Good Point sir.
Click here to reply to this post
Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/23/07 09:44:08 AM |
Age 47, CA |
Both sides are wrong. It is arrogant of te Isrealis and their Christian allies to believe that the Isreal of today can continue to recieve God's blessings while continuing in thier state of rebellion.
2/3 of all Isrealis openly consider themselves Jewish by birth and not by faith.
Too many go through the motions while, like thier Christian counterparts continue to engage in the perverted ways of the world.
If the IDF's latest venture in Lebanan is not a wake up call, I don't know what is. Unlike the six day war and the Yom Kippor war, Isreal with it's American wonder weapons is now the military Goliath.
Even with the best wonder weapons money can buy, they were sent packing.
Isreals problems are not "Those evil Muslims". It is the fact that they are in a state of disobedience. One Jewish commentator actually proclaimed "If Moses were in charge of Isreal today, he would execute half the population!" They, the same as we here in America, cannot demand God bless us as we continue to have the same divorce rate, drug abuse rate, teen pregnancy rate, abortion rate, and other vices of the world.
Click here to reply to this post
|
Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/22/07 05:56:33 PM |
Age 25, FL |
It is amazing how dispensationalism always seem to make a visit when the topic of Israel comes up. So, it would appear that obedience is not a reality of YHWH's covenantal love, but genetics.
THE LAND PROMISE WAS FULFILLED...! 1. As stated by Joshua a. God gave the land - Josh 21:43 b. Israel possessed the land - Josh 21:43 c. Israel lived in the land - Josh 21:43-44 d. "not a word failed...all came to pass" - Josh 21:45; cf. 23:14 2. As implied by the cities of refuge a. Six cities were promised, 3 on each side of the Jordan - Num 35:9-15 b. Three were given in the trans-Jordan, three more promised if God kept His promise to give Israel all the land promised to their fathers - Deu 19:7-9 c. Six cities were given; so God must have kept His promise! - Josh 20:7-9 3. As experienced during the reign of Solomon a. The extent of the land promised described to Abram - Gen 15:8 b. The extent of the land ruled over by Solomon - 1 Kin 4:21 c. God's promise regarding the land had been fulfilled! 4. As praised by the Levites upon their return from Babylonian captivity a. God made a covenant with Abraham concerning the land - Neh 9:7 b. God performed His words - Neh 9:8,23-25 5. As praised by the Psalmist a. God remembered His promise to Abraham - Psa 105:42 b. He gave His descendants the land - Psa 105:43-45 -- Without question God fulfilled the promise to give Israel the land!
WAS THE LAND PROMISE UNCONDITIONAL...? 1. The promise to receive the land was unconditional - cf. Deu 9:5 2. But the promise to retain the land was conditional - cf. Josh 23:15-16 3. Captivity and return to the land was foretold - Deu 4:25-27; 28:15-68; 30:1-10 -- The OT thus describes the history of Israel's captivity and restoration
WAS THE LAND PROMISE TO BE FOREVER AND EVERLASTING...? 1. It was indeed promised "forever", "as an everlasting possession" - Gen 13:15; 17:8 2. However, the Hebrew word translated 'forever' and 'everlasting' is olam a. "meaning a very long time" - TCWD b. "may cover a person's lifetime (Exo 21:6; 1 Sa 1:22) - ibid. c. "a period of many generations (Josh 24:2) - ibid. d. "the time of the present created order" (Psa 73:12) - ibid. e. "The term 'forever,' for a perpetual possession, means as long as the order of things to which it belongs lasts." - Barnes f. "...to the end of the present dispensation" - Clarke 3. If 'everlasting' always meant lasting forever, then we should still be observing: a. Circumcision - Gen 17:10-13 b. The Passover - Exo 12:14 c. The Feast of Unleavened Bread - Exo 12:17 d. The priesthood of Aaron - Exo 29:9 e. The Sabbath - Exo 31:16-17 f. The sacrifices, with their portions for the priests - Lev 6:18; 7:34-36; 10:15 g. Fasting and animal sacrifices on the Day of Atonement - Lev 16:29-34 h. The Feast of Tabernacles - Lev 23:39-42 i. ...and many other elements of the Law described as 'everlasting ordinances' 4. Yet the New Testament teaches such ordinances were not permanent a. They were fleshly ordinances, imposed until a time of reformation - He 9:6-10 b. Circumcision is clearly no longer binding - Ga 5:1-6 c. Even Sabbath days are no longer bound - Co 2:14-17 -- Thus the promise of the land was to last only as long as it fulfilled God's purpose
Click here to reply to this post
|
- Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/24/07 07:17:26 PM | | Age 62, TX |
To 25 Fla: When it comes to the word "olam" you need to give the WHOLE DEFINITION, which puts a firm meaning on the various times referred to. Check out what the various prepositions put before the word "olam" do to change its meaning. "le olam" is defined as you say, a long timeframe that may possibly have an ending. It is a weaker form of the meaning. But "ad olam" is the more dynamic phrase applied to David and his descendants in the covenant, emphasizing the EVER-CONTINUED, EVER-ACTING PRESENCE OF THE BLESSING EXTENDED INTO THE INDEFINITE FUTURE." In other places it means "without beginning, without end, and ever-continuing." ---Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary Of Old And New Testament Words. As to the other elements of the Jewish Law you mentioned, Jesus Himself told us in Scripture that we are no longer under the Law. Jesus fulfilled Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) after completing His work of the First Coming. He will fulfill the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement, and the Feast of Booths (Tabernacles) with His Second Coming. God is a God of His word, and will finish everything He started in His timing. I believe ALL the Bible, and pay special attention to the Revelation of Jesus Christ, who is the Heart of it all, and Israel, which is like watching a clock on where we are in unfulfilled prophecy. Yes, God said the "Land is Mine" but He unconditionally "ad olam" gave it to Israel. Israel is growing in population, in Messianic Jews, and the time of the Gentiles is coming to a close. Rom. 11 (start with chapter 11:1) "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!...God did not reject his people, whom He foreknew." --You can argue with the Bible, I pass!
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/25/07 11:28:24 AM | | Age 25, FL |
Yo, I hope you've done more scripture reading then Romans 11. You haven't even scratched the surface of the arguement set before you. Please show us in scripture where Jesus said we are no longer under the Law. I think you mean Paul, b/c Jesus says clearly he didn't come to abolish the Law or the Prophets but to fulfilled. Every Jot and Title my friend is still in tact to this day. Only Faith in Christ alone Justifies a Man before YHWH. Now I don't have time to correct alot of what you wrote b/c there are plenty of places in scripture that would be obscure and unclear if you interpret "ad olam" in such a matter. Why don't you start with Isaiah 33:10,17? This will clearly show your folly in such an interpretation and teach you proper hermenutics of the imagery depicted in scripture. I'd say the whole dispensational sect needs to revisit Hebrews chapters 1-10 again and understand that Israels Covenant has a new High Priest, who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords to all in all. In order for Israels Covenant to be restored Animals Sacrifaces, Sabbath Days, Festivals, and the whole nine yards would have to be re-established. Shouldn't this be in clear violation of the Covenant of the Son of God??? Maybe we all need to lose Darby's 19th century Theology and go back over our Church History once again....
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/27/07 06:38:25 PM | | Age 62, TX |
Whether or not mankind believes God keeps His covenants is of no importance because God knows He does. Otherwise, all prophecy would already have been fulfilled, and it hasn't. You would have less difficulty if you forgot about church history and Darby, and focused on Sola Scriptura, and accepted that we are not under the dispensation of the Law, we're now under the dispensation of Grace. No man had been able to perfectly follow the law, and other than Jesus absolutely no one ever will. The ritual Jewish law is left primarily for the Orthodox Jew who has no part in the New Covenant of Grace. This is easy to discern, realizing they will rebuild a Temple and offer sacrifice again, as it says in Revelation. How else could the antichrist defile the holy place "the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the prophet Daniel..." --Mt. chapter 24 includes a rundown of the book of Revelation in a capsule. Also, I think you're overlooking the last important phrase from Mt. 5:18, "...one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law TILL ALL IS FULFILLED." Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it, perfectly complete it, satisfy it, and set it aside, by replacing it with a New Covenant of Grace, which is what He did, until He fulfills more prophecy with His Second Coming--"...TILL ALL IS FULFILLED." Jer. 33:25 "This is what the Lord says: 'If I have not established My covenants with day and night and the fixed laws of heaven and earth, then I will reject the descendants of Jacob and David My servant and will not choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. For I will restore their fortunes and have compassion on them.'" I believe God will keep this promise to the Jews and the nation of Israel, which He established. Eph. 2:14-15--"For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two (Jew and Gentile) one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in His flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." Why would you say "the whole dispensational sect needs to revisit Hebrews....and understand that ISRAELS (sic) COVENANT has a new High Priest?" If you're calling "Israel's Covenant" the Royal Land Grant Covenant made to Abraham, you're wrong, my friend. That's about the Mosaic Covenant of the Law, as compared to the New Covenant of Grace! But I'm so glad you want to go to Hebrews. Heb. 7:11-12--"If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law." Heb. 7:8--"The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect) and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God." Heb. 8:6-7--"...as the covenant of which He is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another..." Heb. 8:13--"By calling this covenant 'new' He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." Re: "for Israels (sic) Covenant to be restored Animals (sic) Sacrifaces,(sic) Sabbath Days, Festivals, and the whole nine yards would have to be re-established. Shouldn't this be in clear violation of the Covenant of the Son of God???" My response is that it wouldn't be believing Christians or Messianic Jews offering sacrifices, it would be Orthodox Jews in the temple they will build during the tribulation. There is no need for you to "correct alot (sic)" of what I wrote regarding ad olam meaning for ever and ever. It wasn't "my interpretation" as you said, it was from the dictionary reference which is listed in my above post. So far as your desire to teach "proper permenutics" (sic), I could spell hermeneutics before you were born. Have a good weekend.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/30/07 06:02:13 PM | | Age 25, FL |
Yo, Well my friend you are almost as old as the doctrine in which you teach. Your Dispensational view didn't come along until the 19th Century and the Church (Which is a lot older then you my friend) never believed such a view. This view clearly shows you didn't read what I wrote. I'd like to see where I insisted that Ceremonial Laws be brought back when I'm clearly proclaiming Faith in Christ alone. I'm using Sola Scriptura as well, I didn't quote from any other source. I just need you to answer the simple of question of how the Levitcal priesthood, sacrifaces, and Sabbath Day Keeping is going to be restored when Hebrews clearly shows these things as foreshadows of Christ? Hebrews 10 forbids such a Eschatological view therefore you are either going to have to change your Eschatology or just live in irrationalism. The Blood of Bulls and Goats my friend never pleased YHWH. To the Amen God be all the Glory. Hail King Jesus,seal
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/31/07 08:45:25 PM | | Age 61, TX |
Don't you think I know that animal sacrifice won't please God, and it was written long before the book of Hebrews was! If you had read my post, you'd now know that I said the reinstitution of animal sacrifice would be by the non-Christian Orthodox Jews, NOT BELIEVERS! You can say that you didn't quote from any other source than the Bible, but you're certainly letting early church history tell you what to believe is true (or not) in the Bible. Let the Holy Spirit replace your version of history. How could you deny the rapture, if you've read 1 Thess. 4:13-18? The early church, Paul included, certainly believed in it. Are you going to take exception on that because it lines up with what you're comfortable believing? But because you are anti-Eschatology, you don't believe it, right? So I'll continue to follow the Bible, while you can follow your history books. Apparently, you haven't noticed that in Rev. chapter 7, it mentions the sealed 144,000, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes, and LEVI is included. So it's easy to follow that there will also be non-Christ-believing LEVITES to offer those animal sacrifices then. The book of Hebrews was written to JEWISH CONVERTS, who wouldn't participate in animal sacrifice. You can post that I didn't answer your question(s) all you want. That doesn't make it a fact, because I did. If you can't find them in there, then you are trying not to, so there is no point in pursuing it. Your response, or lack of acknowledgement that I gave you your answers, merely proves what I said. Incidentally, I thank God that He has allowed me to reach a healthy 62nd birthday. I am richer (spiritually) with each year He gives me. May you be so blessed.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 06/01/07 05:14:34 PM | | Age 25, FL |
Yo, Where in my post did I say I denied the Rapture? Both sinners and believers will be judged on the day of Judgment. Your problem and all dispy's of your kind is that you see things in triple vision. It makes absolutely no sense for people to be raptured, come back and rule with Christ on Earth for 1000 years, only to be judged again. It's absurd and people in church history were extremely more intelligent then any of us when it came to the scriptures. Like all erroneous teaching of the past, all that has happened is history repeating itself. The reason you reject Church History's guidance,Councils, and etc. is b/c the early church probably rejected your pressuppositions and interpretation. Darbians would have been seen as a threat to the church during the age of the Reformers I'm sure of it. Your readings and hermenutics on the Book of Hebrews proves your eschatology is flawed for the very simple fact that the Old had waxed cold and is void.
Hebrews 8:3-6;13
3For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, "See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." 6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
......
13In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
But according to your dispensational interpretation, the Old Covenant must come back when the Hebrew writer clearly says it's becoming obsolete. Do you think that Christ is going to let some so called Levite offer another sacriface to his Father after his Sacrifce once and for all??? Christ gave us Better promises and everything of the Ceremonial Law was a shadow of his Glory and Greatness. Not for 2000 years down road Israel (A secular state full of atheist) to re-establish up a Covenant they never could keep anyway unless God enabled them to do so. This my friend is scary to even think of and the Hebrew writer warns in Hebrews 10:26-30. So you must change your interpretation of Revelation Chapters 1-20 1/2. B/C no book in the Bible was written to it's audience without some type of direct affect to whom it was written. According to you, John's book of Revelation had no relevance or concern for those whom he wrote it to. Which isn't like our Apostle John if you've read 2 and 3 John. I'm a partial preterist not a full preterist and I'll help you debate them jokers any day. However, clearly our Eschatological views differ greatly. So lets just part ways and know that we are both old and stuck in our ways.... Grace and Peace, seal
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 06/05/07 12:08:27 AM | | Age 61, TX |
Those who are truly saved in Jesus Christ will answer to Him immediately when in His presence, but it will not be a time of judgment with penalty (do you believe in PURGATORY???). Ours will be a revelation of opportunities lost, blessings missed, etc. Do you believe a person can be saved by WORKS??? We will NOT be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment, 1000 years later, which is for the lost only--it is reserved for those who have rejected Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior! You're right when you say "It makes absolutely no sense for people to be raptured, come back and rule with Christ on Earth for 1000 years, only to be judged again." And we won't! That's why the Bible doesn't say that's what's going to happen! We will be raptured, we will be with Him at the wedding feast of the Lamb in Heaven, we will accompany Him at the Second Coming. We will reign with Him for 1000 years on earth. Then after the last resurrection--Rev. 20:5b "...The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1000 years were ended." The resurrection of the spiritually DEAD, got it? After the DEAD are judged according to their deeds--the one that condemns them, denying Christ, they are condemned to hell, Rev. ch. 20. Rev. ch. 21 describes a new heaven and a new earth....the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN from God, prepared as a bride. John heard a voice saying "NOW THE DWELLING OF GOD IS WITH MEN, (on earth) and He will live with them. Get your brain out of "now" gear, and realize that God is not limited to "now" or "what you believe." Some of the better promises haven't been fulfilled. He's had a master plan all along, and you won't keep Him from finishing it. Incidentally, this was my understanding of Scripture as a whole by the time I was 30, long before I'd heard of dispensations, Darby, and hermeneutics. And for heaven's sake, learn to spell hermeneutics, sacrifice, etc! If you can't spell them, don't use them.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 06/08/07 02:19:02 PM | | Age 25, FL |
Lets not get antzy here, b/c clearly I did mispelled those words. I was in a rush, sue me. However, you must be in a rush as well b/c sometimes your 61 and then your 62. However, I'm glad to see that you tried to account that you will all be in heaven during these parts of Revelation. However when did the Rapture happen. Was it the infamous Revelation 4:1? Which is a ridiculous interpretation. John is clearly talking about himself. Other then that please show us so that we can be amazed when the Rapture actually comes to past and you are raptured away b/c Paul doesn't specify anywhere in scripture 2 comings of Christ. According to Paul there is one Revelation of Jesus Christ at his 2nd Coming. Not a third coming. Peter declares one Revelation of Jesus Christ at his 2nd coming. Right there in Thessalonians where you got the word 'Raptura' from this is the 2nd Coming of Christ. However you are insisting on a 3rd coming of Christ that isn't found in the Scriptures. This my friend is triple vision and you need to get your theological lenz cleaned to see correctly. Show us where in Scripture that only the Church is raptured and the Wicked get one more shot at it. According to most Pre-Trib and Pre-Mill eschatology the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the Earth, yet people are going to be saved without the Holy Spirit somehow. This stance is ridiculous and makes no sense. So yes, it is absurd for you to suggest a Rapture occurred (With out proving it from scripture happening before the 2nd coming of Christ), you were judged already, therefore your judgement don't take place in the Great Judgement b/c you already made it in, therefore your name was already in the book of life this is why you were already raptured therefore no need to check, and only the wicked are being judged but it's possible their names were added into the book of Life after they accepted Jesus without Holy Spirit enabling them to do so. Okay your position is alot more Biblical then mind if you are using the New World Translation perhaps (Not even). So clearly there are too many holes in your Eschatology which is why I reject it as being Biblical. You may feel as though you made perfect sense to yourself but you made a theological leap in presupposing a rapture occuring before Christ second coming, presupposing Christ 1000 year reign is literal, presupposing only the wicked are judged at the end (B/c the Bible clearly says the Books of Life were opened so obviously not only the wicked are judged at the end, c'mon guy), and the list could go on. But thanks for helping me brush up on my eschatological stance. I'm going to a wedding in July and they are all Premill. Hail King Jesus,seal
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 06/10/07 05:03:46 PM | | Age 62, TX |
I've made the effort to send you some sound interpretation of Scripture and discuss it with you. It's like witnessing, when all I can do is try, knowing there are some who are just not receptive. I told you what I laid our for you was done sincerely, hoping to help you b/c you're obviously confused and even contradict yourself and your own camp's position. My only motivation was to help you or someone else like you who might be wanting more input on eschatology. But I doubt anyone else is reading feedback anymore, so that leaves you. You've replied to my well-meant offerings with sarcasm, abrasiveness, and name-calling. By the way, what is a coinky-dink? Was that just another misspelling? Perhaps Swahili? You (try to) mock me and my responses, and in so doing, I think you've also mocked the truth of God. Now, let's look at what appears to be your motivation. Your attitude and tone show why you've pursued this to such a degree of absurdity. You just plain enjoy being rude and trying to trump whomever you take on. You like the stage. For you, this isn't about the truth of Scripture, it's about your need to be seen as an authority, though it is a self-endowed title. You stumble all over the Word, take it out of context, can't spell it, and in the end, don't realize how you come off in your posts. You mention using me as practice for your eschatological stance before going to a wedding, b/c everyone there will all be pre-mil. Has it occurred to you that day is about someone else, and not YOU? Well, I hope you're not so needy that you ruin someone's wedding.
You have no excuse for suggesting that I use the NW Translation. I own one--I use it to show JWs how their own book contradicts itself and what they say they believe. But you stick your neck out there and say what you THINK I believe, then accuse me, based on your fabricated SUPPOSITION, of using the NWT. This shows just how devious and flawed your twisted logic is. The only holes in my eschatology to which you referred are the ones you've fallen through. I've never said anything to you about where I believe the Holy Spirit is during the trib. I'd explain to you what the Bible suggests about that, but I'm casting no more pearls to the swine. I hope that age, maturity, and some Holy Spirit-led study will do a positive thing for you. But of course, you have to be willing. I'm not going to send any more Scripture your way for you to manipulate as it pleases you.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/22/07 07:52:36 PM | | Age 46, NY |
I just read the first person's feedback--turns out God's word is no more reliable than the guy who sold me my first car. What a bummer! Maybe those JWs will come back around...
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/23/07 02:02:27 PM | | Age 25, FL |
Yo, Oh how cute is your little comment with no scriptural proof to prove your point. I'm very humbled that the Lord has saw fit to use you to correct me with nothing more then an opinion. However, I know that the God of Scripture will reveal himself through his mind which is scripture. I pray that you render me your perspective b/c from what I've gathered so far, you still consider yourself a second class citizen to the Jews. Paul clearly says... Col. 3:5-11
5 Put to death, then, your members that [are] upon the earth -- whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry -- 6 because of which things cometh the anger of God upon the sons of the disobedience, 7 in which also ye -- ye did walk once, when ye lived in them;
8 but now put off, even ye, the whole -- anger, wrath, malice, evil-speaking, filthy talking -- out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices, 10 and having put on the new, which is renewed in regard to knowledge, after the image of Him who did create him; 11 where there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, servant, freeman -- but the all and in all -- Christ.
Hail King Jesus, seal
Click here to reply to this post
Fear Ted Pike!
| Posted On: 05/22/07 05:56:22 PM |
Age 46, NY |
I listened to Mr. Pike's interview and was amazed at how gracious Jan and Pastor Bob were in the face of Pike's soapbox rants, pious condescention and outright misquoting of the Bible. He is no Christian, by any stretch. I believe he is a deceiver of the worst kind--one who claims God's promises for himself but denies them for His chosen people. Please avoid him at all costs!
Click here to reply to this post
|
Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/22/07 05:27:43 PM |
Age 44, KY |
If God truely turned his back on all his everlasting promises to the Jews. If he never ment to fulfill any of the prophecy regarding the Jews. Then what hope do we have as Christians??? Can we honestly say we've been more obedient or less stubborn than the Jews.
Click here to reply to this post
|
- Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/24/07 07:53:46 PM | | Age 62, TX |
Please don't make the mistake of putting God in a box of some man's making. Take the Bible literally, believe it, and be very careful who you listen to, who you read, who you believe otherwise. Be a Berean, Acts 17:11; if what someone says or writes doesn't line up with Scripture, don't believe them! God reveals His truth to us in His time, and as we're ready. But believe the Bible!
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/23/07 02:09:50 PM | | Age 25, FL |
Please read the post above by Age 25 FL, b/c I've clearly shown where God has fulfilled his promises... Perhaps we can build from there b/c we must exegete scripture properly in proper context or according to you the Bible is a Myth and God has done nothing to fulfill his promises to Israel yet. You do realize we are in 2007 and God has yet to give Israel their land according to you. Hopefully we can put Darby's interpretation to rest and back in the pit where it belongs.
Hail King Jesus,seal
Click here to reply to this post
Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/22/07 05:17:12 PM |
Age 46, CA |
the pike doctrine is nothing less than an anti- word or watering down of what's true god's covenant is likened to the sun and moon as long as there around HIS PROMISES REMAIN last time I checked the sun and moon are still here with us the jews or more specific Juda Benjamin and Levi were speperated from the other tribes considered the 10 nothern tribes or ephriam
or called jospheh sperated from the modern jews untill the in gathering of all the covenant keeping people back to the land that he also promised to HIS PEOPLE where he will also restore what the cancor worm of sin and disobience as well as an unbeliving heart look for another exodus out of the land of EGYPT
those who are reluctant to return to the promised land will be compelled to return in two ways either lack of rain or God will send fisher and hunters after to cause to flee
remember Jocobs's sons they had to go where Joseph was he was the man with the bread and king DAVID he fled before SAUL in both intances the chilren were justified in david's case he recived a kingdom and in the outher brothers were reunited. The islam in the world will shake everthing that can be shaken and cause much upheaval what is taken for granted may not be here remember when Jabobs body was taken back to canan and put in acave for buring why didnt the sons just stay in the land instead they returned to Egypt and 400 years of bondage we look thruogh a glass darkly don't we? the sprit of EDOM is at work in the church today there are those who don;t follow the whole word who are out of felowship with we who have been taught by the HOLY GHOST REVELATION but as Jesus Yesuha looked on PETER an knew that the brother was in afalsehood and said you know not what sprit you are of.
Click here to reply to this post
|
- Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/23/07 03:16:25 PM | | Age 28, FL |
Can anyone please explain why the kingdom was taken away from the Jews and given to a nation that will produce fruit? Oh, I forgot that Jesus forgot about the dispensational doctrine of Israel. Answer according to Scripture. I think that Christendom have forgotten that none of the historical Church Fathers of the Eastern Church believed anything close to dispensationalism. John N. Darby is the Father of that suppositions. In addition, I find it funny that many Christians would be against racism, but would turn around and say that Jews are God's chosen people according to genetics. I thought that Paul taught that the Body of Christ is one, not two.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/24/07 07:45:50 PM | | Age 62, TX |
The Jews were temporarily removed from the land and scattered all over the world because of their rejection of the true Messiah. It was prophecy fulfilled. The land became desolate after they left and was so worthless that almost no one lived there until the land was given to the Jewish again and they reestablished their nation in 1948. It was NOT an established nation with any name before 1948. In the interim, it became a dusty wasteland. I'm vague about your statement re: fruitful. If you mean the land, it has only been since their return that the land has been made to flourish again, and they provide much of the produce, fruit, and flowers to a lot the world. (But of course, consider what the Palestinians did by destroying the land of Gaza after the Israelis peacefully left.) Re: "Jesus forgot," please don't insult His name. Re: dispensationalism- simply because a scriptural truth hasn't been yet understood (by you), does that invalidate it? For the first time in history we now understand the meaning of Daniel 12:4. Be patient, but I don't think your wait will be very long.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/25/07 12:16:36 PM | | Age 28, FL |
TO USE DANIEL 12:4 AND NOT TO APPLY IT TO THE END OF THE BABYLONIAN EXILE IS TERRIBLE HERMENEUTICS. SO, ACCORDING TO YOU AND DISPENSATIONALISM, THE FATHER HAS A SET OF PEOPLE AND THE SON HAS A SET OF PEOPLE. WOW, WHAT A WAY TO CONTRADICT THE MINISTRY OF PAUL! SECOND, IT IS AMAZING HOW YOU NEVER GAVE ANY HISTORICAL CHURCH FATHERS TO BACK UP YOUR VIEW, WHY IS THAT/ OH, I FORGOT, THERE WASN'T ANY. SINCE IT APPEAR THAT YOU WISH TO BE PRO-ONE RACE OF PEOPLE AND NOT ALL OF GOD'S CREATIONS, THEN PLEASE ALLOW ME TO ASK THIS QUESTION. IF THE PROMISES, THE COVENANT, AND THE KINGDOM WAS GIVEN TO ISRAEL ONLY AND YAHWEH ONLY LOVED ISRAEL, THEN HOW DID YOU ENTER INTO SALVATION? SECOND, ONE GROUP ATTAINED A SPECIAL STATIS BY GENETIC, WHILE THE OTHER HAD TO HAVE FAITH? HUM, SOUND LIKE TO DIFFERENT SYSTEM OF SALVATION TO ME.
SO, HOW ARE THE JEWS SUPPOSE TO RETURN TO GOD OUTSIDE OF OBEDIENCE REFER MADE TO ACTS 2:38!ACCOUNT FOR THIS PLEASE.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 06/01/07 06:06:39 PM | | Age 25, FL |
Yo, Bro, this guy answers back with Romans 11 to everything without understanding the Context. Romans 11, does specify that there is one tree and Paul clearly shows in Romans 2 and 9 that Israel is Spiritual and genetics. Not all of Israel is Israel. Yet thousands of Jews were saved b/c the Gospel was sent to them first. Perhaps he's failing to recognize that all the Just shall live by Faith. The Spirit must circumcize a man's heart before he can believe the Truth. Also he skimmed over your request for him to apply Daniel 12 in it's correct context as the end of the Babylonian Captivity. So according to him Daniels prophecy was incorrect b/c in 70 A.D. God decided to have the Romans destory Jerusalem. Oh great, now Daniel is thrown out. Perhaps the Babylonian Captivity to him wasn't a big deal to Israel. Who knows. However he does say that he's saved by Grace and Repentance but that Israel gets in b/c they are Israel. Therefore these are things we can't understand b/c they get in without necessarily believing in the son.
Quote from him...
"You're confusing God's individual relationship with man and His relationship with the nation."
I thought that all nations must bow to the Son? Paul never said he's a Messianic Jew and Messianic Jews are just as Dispensational as you are. No matter what race you are, we are all God's Chosen Race. Until you understand that point we will never go anywhere. Hail King Jesus,seal
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 06/04/07 11:07:32 PM | | Age 62, TX |
To the Floridians, 25 and 28: I have sincerely tried to help you, put time and effort into it, and tried to do it in the Spirit. If you want to "Yo" at each other, go right ahead. If you want to "cherry pick" out of what I write, take it out of context, only using what YOU think helps YOUR position, go right ahead. I'm in good company; you do that with the Bible, too! You come off so foolishly. What you should do is read what I've offered you. I've moved on.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 06/08/07 01:50:06 PM | | Age 25, FL |
I'm glad you're in good company b/c just like Israel many need to fall off before we can enter the promise land. My friend Scofeild and Darby are the shoulders you stand on but according to you, you came up with all this yourself. It just happens to be what Darby and Scofield teaches as well. What a coinky dink. So you can continue to be dispensational in eschatology and I'll continue to be Post Mill. You can't account for Hebrews 1-10 b/c it renders your interpretation of scripture unbiblical. However I can in my stance. I know even more why the Father has yet to send the Son back to get his bride b/c there are people looking to be rescued rather then work and use the most powerful tool known to man that can change the heart of a man. The Gospel. Revelation 19:15-16. His Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.
Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fear the Jews, not the Islamofascists
| Posted On: 05/27/07 10:25:23 PM | | Age 62, TX |
Daniel chapter 12 is about end time events, a massive resurrection, etc. I'm secure in what I believe about it. I know what you were making reference to when you mentioned the Babylonian exile, and I don't think it was merely limited to that. Part of it was written in Hebrew and part in Aramaic. I think there was a reason for that, and that the Aramaic portion has content that is concerned with the Gentile world instead of Israel directly. Ch. 12 was in Hebrew. You said I "wish to be pro-one race." You're wrong, if you read this whole post you'll see what I believe instead of what you think I or a group you have put me in believes. I suggest you spend less time on the historical church fathers, and more in the Bible. God is not a God of confusion, He's the author of language. He inspired the writing of the Bible to be understood, not to be taken as confusing, guessed at, or allegorically taken. If we don't understand something, that doesn't mean it's not true. Some understandings are revealed when He's ready for us to know it. It's not a book about us, it's a book about Jesus Christ, from Genesis to Rev. The church fathers were wrong about plenty, but that doesn't make the Bible wrong. You ask how I was saved. I was saved by grace through repentant faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, and it caused me to turn from the sin in my life, it changed me, and made me want to follow and please Jesus and know Him at a higher level every day. Some of your questions show you're wrestling with God, not me. God inspired the Bible, I didn't. You asked how Jews are supposed to return to God outside of obedience- Acts 2:38. Jews, whether by nationality or chosen religion, have only the one same road to salvation as Gentiles: the saving faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior and a dedication to follow Him obediently. You're confusing God's individual relationship with man and His relationship with the nation. You mention Paul, a saved missionary who was born and died a Jew. But the difference is that he died as a Messianic believing missionary martyr! God has always had his holy remnant from His chosen people: Noah and his family, Lot and his family from Sodom and Gomorrah are examples. The Bible indicates that He continues to have His remnant. I believe there will be a remnant made up of believers that contains both Messianic Jews and Christians. They are talked about in 1 Thes. 4: 13-18. There is a remnant of Jews that may not all be in Christ through a believing faith yet, but they will be before the Second Coming happens. I believe our all-knowing God will have them in Israel when the timing pleases Him. Rom. 11:1-2--"Did God reject His people? By no means!...God did not reject His people, whom He foreknew." The only conclusion that can be drawn is that during such trials as Israel (and the world) will go through, that remnant of people will find genuine faith and accept the First Coming of Jesus the Messiah, and His finished sacrifice on the cross. THEY FIND SALVATION THE SAME WAY A GENTILE DOES---IT'S THE ONLY WAY, BECAUSE OF THE NEW COVENANT ESTABLISHED BY CHRIST. Rom. 11:4-5--"...God told Elijah "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal. So, too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; (the law) if it were, grace would no longer be grace." GRACE is the answer to how EVERYONE and ANYONE finds salvation. Rom. 11:23--Speaking about the Jews, Paul wrote "And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." I hope you find whatever answers will help you resolve your questions.
Click here to reply to this post
|
|
|
