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The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/11/07 05:26:16 PM Age 29, GA
God, forgive us, all of us for turning away from You. Forgive us for not hungry for You, not thirsty for the true Fountain of Life, the River of Life. We turned away from the everlast Fountain, and carved up for us a fountain that cannot satisfy. We turned to ourselves, we turned to each other, and all we found was emptyness and vanity. Only You, oh Lord can satisfy us. Forgive us and lead us back to You, to the living fountain. Revive us O Lord, let us see how far away we are from You. Let us know that how blind we are, that we may come and ask for sight. Draw us to You, O Lord. Make us come, for You are our only hope! In Jesus' Name, Amen.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/11/07 04:43:41 AM Age 39, MS
But we are talking about communion/last supper.....Christ meant it in a serious way. Eccleciastes states there is a time for everything. Christianity is not taken seriously by lots of people. This only adds to the disbelief. Signs and wonders are to follow us! NOT CLOWNS!!!
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/11/07 12:33:48 AM Age 60, MO
An elephant for the children for VBS, maybe. A clown for a church family night...could work. Yes, we are under grace and not law, but our holy God is still just that...Holy. Too bad these men don't get the message of "offering strange fire" or pulling out the meat of the offering to "roast it instead of boiling it" as God required. Aaron's sons and Eli's fate still should warn us to approach the death of our Lord Jesus Christ with a sober joy. How does the Lord put up with this? Someday the wrath of the Lamb will be seen and I really doubt that such a bunch of foolishness as this circus approach to the remembrance of the Lord's body and blood given for our redemption will be overlooked. Doesn't it make you say Lord take us home before we'd ever bring such disgrace to your table. One last thought...why are they trying to "lure" unsaved people to the Lord's Table in the first place. It is not for them to begin with.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/11/07 12:03:39 AM Age 54, MN
Why is everyone so upset ? Where do these "clowns" get their authority ? Where do YOU get your authority? Why are there 30,000 Christian groups that differ from one another but they all were given authority ? I think everybody needs to put their stones down and maybe pray a little deeper.
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  1. Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
    Posted On: 05/12/07 01:10:00 AMAge 61, OH
    Solomon was offered a gift from God. He chose wisdom, and it was granted. It may be deduced, then, that when Solomon penned his writings in the Old Testament, what he wrote was truly God-inspired wisdom. Let's see what he says about clowns in church: Ecclesiastes 5:1 Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil. 2. Do not be rash with your mouth, and let not your heart utter anything hastily before God. For God is in heaven and you on earth; therefore let your words be few. 3. For a dream comes through much activity, and a fool's voice is known by his many words. (Although not as wise as Solomon, I would venture to add, "...words and [foolish] deeds. Just my opinion...and Solomon's.
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  2. Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
    Posted On: 05/11/07 03:33:31 PMAge 46, MO
    Friend: You asked several questions: "Why is everyone so upset ? Where do these "clowns" get their authority ? Where do YOU get your authority? Why are there 30,000 Christian groups that differ from one another but they all were given authority ? I think everybody needs to put their stones down and maybe pray a little deeper." I think your questions stem from a misrepresentation of God and His HOLY Spirit. We agree that all authority comes from God because He is sovergn, but I think we disagree what this means. Being Sovergn doesn't necessarily mean exercised control. The rules of our nation are still sovergn inside my car but I am free to run any stop light I please. Just because I don't get caught every time or at the first infraction doesn't diminish the authority of the law. Same with Christ, he is long suffering but He WILL JUDGE! Therefore, not all churches operate under the authority of Christ just because they have a "Christian Facade." Finally, having a sovergn God doesn't mean that all Christians have to do is pray and magically everything is wonderful. True, Jesus said WE can move mountains and do greater miracles than He because of the Holy Spirit in us, but this does not mean that all we do is pray. If that were true, then the apostles could have stayed in the upper room. I hope these answers to your questions help.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/10/07 10:56:00 PM Age 34, OK
We have been saying the same thing about our church. Stop trying to entice people into the church with entertainment. Preach the word and tell the truth. People really do want to hear the truth!!
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/10/07 03:04:21 PM Age 65, KY
Clowns may often be buffoons, but sometimes they can be more like mimes, silent actors that communicate with gesture and exaggerated emotion. Once I witnessed a passion play acted by clowns. I was not at all sympathetic to the idea! I sat through it anyway, and by the middle of the performance I stopped noticing that they were clowns as I became caught up in the passion. Everyone wept during the crucifixion scene. I think it's one of those "you'd have to had been there" kinds of things. I was quite moved by the experience. My initial disgust at the idea was completely gone. I've found that actual experience puts my prejudices into perspective. "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;" Tomas Moore
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/10/07 12:09:39 PM Age 37, GA
I completely agree with Todd. I cannot believe the way those pastors try to make a mockery of something so serious as communion. Or even that they'd make a mockery of church in general. That is shameful. We truly need to keep them in our prayers, and pray that Lord will convict, lead and guide them.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/10/07 12:04:05 PM Age 52, IN
The article mentions that the problem arises because the people do not know the Law of God. That is right. The professing church, for the most part, does not know and in many cases outright reject the Law of God. It is Torah. The commandments of Torah are still valid today. Sabbath is Friday sundown to Saturday sundown and the dietary Laws are still in effect. The ban on syncretism - the mixing of pagan and man-made traditions with God's way is still in effect. We've traded the beautiful Feasts of the Lord for circus-like substitutes in Christmas and Easter - pagan holidays that have been "christianized." What a travesty!
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  1. Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
    Posted On: 05/11/07 07:04:50 AMAge 41, NM
    I agree that this clown communion act is a travesty, but to compare it to having a slice of ham for a family holiday trivializes the point. The dietary laws are NOT in effect, unless you deny the words of Christ himself. In Mark 7:15, Jesus stated that nothing outside a man can make a man unclean by going into him, for it does not go into his heart, but to his stomach and then out of the body (V19). At the end of verse 19 we see Mark's Holy Spirit inspired commentary on what Jesus meant: "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods 'clean'). The KJV says: "purging the meats", which means the same thing. How did we go from the disgrace of clown communion services to eating certain meats, to celebrating the resurrection of our Lord on a day the world calls Easter? I don't get it, why can't we stick to the point of the article?
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/10/07 11:03:51 AM Age 37, TN
I agree with Todd. My prayer is that the LORD will use these "clowns" to show the soundly saved, the true church, that His Glory is everlasting despite them.
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  1. Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
    Posted On: 05/10/07 09:22:52 PMAge 16, CT
    I have heard from Ingrid Schleuter from sexual evangelism, heavy-metal death enthusiasts for Christ, even an Elvis Presley impersonator in Church. If anything, tastlessness seems to be quite rampant. However, clowns really hits a nerve for the worst. If anything, Hollywood has influenced Church too much.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
Posted On: 05/10/07 09:22:04 AM Age 43, FL
I have to admit that the whole clown thing seems quite bizarre, but what about Paul's strategy to become "all things to all people"? He identified himself with the people he was trying to reach, even those who were "without the Law". I hope I never find myself dressed as a clown period, but if that's who God told me to reach, I guess I'd have to do it. You act as though God never told anyone to do anything bizarre to speak to others. Maybe we should all re-visit Nehemiah. That dude was downright weird from a human perspective (lying on one side for almost a year and cooking with feces for fuel?), but everything he did was by God's command. As far as church being only for Christians, I know exactly what you mean, but I still struggle with why, in the early days, they met daily "in the temple" and "from house to house", and that the Lord added daily to their number. Could it be that they met in a public place to allow unbelievers to join in and come to Christ? Certainly they didn't do everything in the public place (the Temple) that they did in one another's homes because there was a different audience and different purposes. I know, I know, the clown thing is tough to swallow, but does anyone know if they were actually teaching pure doctrine or not? If not, this could be a matter of our personal experience and taste. If that's the case, be careful how you judge their actions because they may be modern-day Nehemiah's. Remember, many of our great, (great?)grandparents didn't allow men & women to sit together in church of have any accompaniment to their singing and thought anything to the contrary was evil. How foolish co-ed congregational seating and piano-accompanied singing in church must seem to them!
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  1. Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
    Posted On: 05/11/07 05:00:22 PMAge 29, GA
    There are several things I like to address. First of all, the prophet you mentioned was Ezekiel not Nehemiah. Doing weird and strange things is not the main point of the objection. The main point of objection should be, “Are we doing this because God told us to do so?” You are exactly right that God told Ezekiel to do strange things, the reason was so that he can illustrate his prophecies to the people of Israel. Things we do in the Church should be commanded by God, first of all. Secondly, they should agree with the Scripture. And not just one verse, but the Scripture as a whole. People can quote (or misquote) one verse of the Bible and support anything they want. Things we do in the Church should always draw people to God. Not to an organization, not to an event, not to a show, no, but to Christ Jesus Himself. We should check and look at the fruits of those ministries, see where do they lead us to. To repentance? To a heart longing for God? To the love of Scriptures? To the love of fellow human beings? To a revival? God have mercy on us, lead us back to the Truth, lead us to repentance, to the Cross of Christ and to Himself and Himself alone.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
      Posted On: 05/12/07 09:38:25 AMAge 76, AL
      You are exactly right. Lead us back to the truth. People need to hear the truth, not some easy believism; a feel good religion; if it feels good, it isn't conviction. We need preachers who preach the infallible, inerrant word of God, not try to intertain us, we are intertained by television, though I haven't been recently. There is nothing but filth on the tv. But in church we need to say as God said to Moses, "Take off your shoes you are standing on holy groung." If it is holy, we need to treat it as holy, not make a mockery of it. If God is there it IS holy, so act accordingly. Would you stand in front of a holy God and act or dress like a clown? I think not. The Bible says we will not be able to stand in the presence of a holy God. He is so awesome and so magnificent we will be knocked off our feet. I am waiting for that day when we will be on our faces before Him.
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  2. Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
    Posted On: 05/11/07 03:48:29 PMAge 46, MO
    Friend: Being all things to all people doesn't mean that we compromise ourselves to reach the lost. It means that we humble ourselves so that we are approachable to the lost. Let's face it, if I am a biker and I act, talk, look, and smell like a biker, chances are that I won't have any success talking to a mother of four if my attitude is that of a "Hell's Angel." However, I can look, smell, and act like a biker and still be approachable if my attitude were one of grace and servitude in the presence of same mother of four. The difference? Self vs Servitude, Self vs Grace, Self vs Born Again. Friend, these pastors are full of self, love the lime light, and are spiritually shallow. Indeed they are dead men leading dead men. How can I say such a thing? God is holy and His true church is Holy and made for worship and service to LORD and KING, not service to self and desires. Hope this helps.
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  3. Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
    Posted On: 05/11/07 07:20:18 AMAge 41, NM
    Just one quick point. You asked if maybe the early church met daily in public places so that unbelievers could come? The answer is absolutely not. See Acts 5:12-16. You'll read that the believers met regularly at a place called "Solomon's Colonnade." Verse 13 declares that "NO ONE ELSE DARED TO JOIN THEM, EVEN THOUGH THEY HELD BELIEVERS IN HIGH REGARD." Why? Because they were filled with fear! Annanias and Saphira had just been killed for lying to the Holy Spirit. The gathering of believers was truly a Holy Moment and no one played with it. I hear people all the time (especially pentecostals, of which I am one) say that we need to get back to the New Testament church. And yet we want to play games with God instead of fear God. Is it any wonder we don't often see signs and wonders? God can't show up because He won't be identified with such things. The true gospel is not preached, thus no one gets saved. Instead we have a large number of people gathering for fun, and we call it church. What's the difference between a dead church with 20 members and a dead church with 5,000 members? Only that 5,000 dead bodies gives off a greater stench!
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