Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/09/07 09:03:48 PM |
Age 37, NY |
Just saw the debate online. I thought both sides were evenly sophomoric in their approach. So it seemed fair. I thought Kirk and Ray would have tried harder. They just repeated what they have said over and over before. The banana, the ten commandments, appeals to fear and ignorance etc. They proved nothing scientific what so ever. Better luck next time.
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Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/08/07 03:00:36 PM |
Age 23, MN |
I like Way of the Master, Kirk and Ray, etc. I think they're style of evangelism is sorely missing from modern evangelism. But, I would never resort to them in a debate about the existance of God. I watched the DVD they made on evolution, it was rediculous. All they do is say how rediculous evultion sounds to them, and things like, "who wants to be related to a monkey, they eat sloppy" stuff like that. I saw a clip from WotM on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" where Ray argues that a proof of design is the banana, after all, it has it's own wrapper, and fits perfectly in a persons hand. C'mon, that's rediculous, i could play devils advocate and say in that case the Pinapple is evidence that God didn't want us to eat, or that the Cactus is evidence God is cruel, i mean, you're out in the desert, and there's a plant that has tons of water in it, but you can't touch it without getting pricked... The organizers of this debate should have looked at getting Ken Ham or some of the fine speakers from Answers in Genesis. I agree, Ray and Kirk, nice guys, they understand the law, but theologians, scientists, or philosophers they are not. It'll be interesting to see how ABC edits this debate...
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- Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/08/07 05:44:57 PM | | Age 60, PA |
But Ken Ham would just as bad off. He can give good lectures to believers and those uneducated about what evolution actually is but in the real world, he looks just as foolish as Ray and Kirk. But it's not like they are debating someone the caliber of a Dawkins, Sam Harris or Dan Barker. So we shall see.
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- I'm afraid you missed the point...
| Posted On: 05/09/07 07:56:34 AM | | Age 44, MS |
I'm sorry you were disappointed in Ray's explanations. When God inspired Romans 1 - the part about His invisible qualities being "clearly seen" [Tommy's translation: "painfully obvious"] in creation - He wasn't talking about microbiology or some obscure "scientific" explanation - He was talking about bananas...and oranges, and butterflies, and flowers, and you, etc.
But I'm afraid you missed the entire point of the debate - it was not to "win" the argument at all. It was to get the Gospel out to as many people as possible - and judging by that standard, realizing that the Gospel can potentially be heard by millions - I'd say it was a HUGE success!
"Wise a serpent, but gentle as a dove..."
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- Well...actually...
| Posted On: 05/08/07 09:11:24 PM | | Age 19, MN |
I've never seen Ken Ham debate, but he is a high school teacher in science. However, there are other, highly qualified, Ph. D's in AiG who probably could debate quite effectively. Query...what do you mean the "real world"??
Thanks and have a great day!
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Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/08/07 10:02:22 AM |
Age 41, TX |
I am so excited about this debate, I've already set my DVR to record it! I am trying to let my unsaved co-workers know about it as well. I pray that God uses this to open some minds and hearts to the Truth and Satan cringes when it's over! Thanks to Ray and Kirk for boldly stepping out and using their God given talents to speak to the lost. We should all be so forthcoming in our faith. The facts don't lie, but Athiests obviously have to!
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- Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/08/07 12:06:54 PM | | Age 57, AZ |
Don't get to exicited.What we get is the coke can anaolgy.Not exactly Thomas Aquinas and Albertus Magnus.We would be much better off with the Augustinian proofs.These two men might be nice guys,but theologians they are not
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- Re: Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/09/07 09:42:26 PM | | Age 51, AZ |
Yes, where ARE your theologians? Where are these brave men and women of God? Why are they not out there evangelizing and standing in the front lines? Remember, do not rely on the proud and supposedly educated as God picks the humble and the weak to do great works that glorify Him! Do not rely on others, each of us have plenty of work to do. The harvest is plenty, but the workers are FEW!
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- Re: Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/09/07 03:01:47 PM | | Age 42, TX |
I have viewed the clips on ABC's website, and my conclusions are based upon them. I would agree that Kirk and Ray may not have been the best choices to represent the viewpoint that GOD exists regardless of faith. They are evangelists, and they have to come to the point of faith in their proof. I think they stood firm in the vision they have for their ministry. I thought they had missed opportunities to refute the atheist claims. But, it seems they were not there for that. GOD's word tells us that, "...and GOD has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty," (1 Cor 1 :27). So, I have faith in the hope that God will use this program to set people free regardless of how well Kirk and Ray faired from a debate perspective. I used to involve myself with apologetic debate on the web. I found that it was mostly pointless intellectual posturing that produced little or no fruit. After all, it is not minds that must be changed, but rather, hearts. That only happens when the Spirit of God shows up. The question that begs for an answer is, is the Spirit of GOD upon Kirk and Ray to set the captives free? I believe HE is, and that viewers will see that in their loving and humble attitudes which contrast sharply with the attitudes on the other side of the room.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/10/07 12:35:31 PM | | Age 57, AZ |
The problem is that Ray likes to use analogies that are better suited for polytheists than monotheists.I hold up four paintings for Ray,a Botticelli,a Renoir,a Gauguin,and a Pollock.Ray answers, painter,painter,painter,painter.I hold up four buildings for Ray,the pyramids,the Kremlin,the Eiffel Tower,and the Sydney Opera House.Ray answers, builder,builder etc.I then hold up pictures of a comet,a koala bear,a tapeworm,and a redwood tree.Ray answers,creator,creator,creator,creator.For his analogy to work he must argue that the paintigs and buildings were the work of one painter and one builder.If he is not willing to argue this then he has proven polytheism.The only argument around this is if he argues that the same spirit imbues all the painters and builders.Therefore he is left with the same arguement for the creators,that the spirit is imbued throughtout creation.So his fall back position is pantheism.We have wonderful departments of theology and religious studies throughout this country in our universities.Unless his pride is so great that he cannot avail himself of their services.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 06/07/07 12:45:48 PM | | Age 44, NJ |
...spurious argument at best. You seem quite ready to swallow the camel of atheism and yet strain at the gnat of multiple design=multiple designers in the analogy? The point wasn't WHO did the designing, or whether it was more than one designer, but that design shows a designer. Duh, moment?
Come on now. If you are going to argue logic use logic.
Patrick Burwell, President/Founder OnlyJesusSaves.com, Evangelist@OnlyJesusSaves.com
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