Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/09/07 02:41:48 PM |
Age 43, FL |
This is quite a bizarre story, including the news that Murdoch is a born-again believer in Christ. Depending on Warren's true role in Murdoch's life, I agree that he has some responsibility, but I do have an issue with the article itself, especially with the title.
To title this article the way you did is to use a tactic that would make the worst part of Rupert Murdoch smile. In essence, it insinuates that porn is part of the life God has in store for us just like worship, evangelism, fellowship, discipleship and ministry. I understand your point in the story, but Jesus had some harsh words towards those who attributed a work of the Holy Spirit with the demonic, and I can personally attest to the way the Holy Spirit has worked in my life and my churches' through the emphasis on the 5 Biblical principles upon which the PDL is based.
I write this not to try to accuse you, but to encourage you to be careful how you attack the splinter in a brother's eye.
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Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/09/07 02:16:36 PM |
Age 41, ENGLAND |
Hi
quote "WOW, you people have no idea how a business runs do you!! You are acting like Rupert Murdoch took the pictures himself and published them. The guy can not micro manage every photo printed in the paper.""
I'm in England and i can tell you this quote is naive..The Sun is the biggest selling tabloid paper in my country..The page 3 topless shot is as famous here,as celeb gossip is in the The National Enquirer..True Murdoch doesn't micro manage the shot,but he knows its in there..He KNOWS the Sun inside and out,apparent with his dealing with the printer in the strike of the 80s..
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Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/09/07 10:51:11 AM |
Age 52, KY |
Doesn't Rupert Murdoch own the copyright to the NIV Bible? Maybe we should examine some of the mushy passages that have been rewritten in the name of "antiquated kjv" which wasn't so hard to understand after all
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Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/09/07 09:55:38 AM |
Age 52, AL |
Wow. Even if all you have said is true, who are you to call this to a public display? Jesus demonstrated to the religious zealots of his day that sin should be dealt with but not to an open shame which redeems no-one. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." The scripture is also clear on how we are to handle conflict and/or a brother fallen by the way. We are to go to him privately first, then with witnesses and then to the church. Have you spoken with Rick Warren? Have you spoken with Murdoch?
I think you have found a forum to vent your judgmental, legalistic leadership style and can't wait to point the finger publicly at anyone who crosses the line. I'm sure you have answers already prepared for me but I think if you'll take a look at the plank in your own eye you'll drop the stone in your hand just as those did when Jesus spoke the truth.
Make no mistake, sin must be dealt with and must not be tolerated in the body of Christ. Jesus told the woman to "go and sin no more." But is Murdoch's sin more grievous than mine or yours? Not in God's eyes. The thought, the word, the attitude and the deed are viewed with equal weight by the Lord.
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- Re: Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/11/07 01:42:10 AM | | Age 36, TX |
While I agree with your sentiment (take the matter directly to a brother first) I don't think anybody is planning on stoning Mr. Warren or Mr. Murdoch to death so bringing that verse to bear on this discussion seems pointless. I would also question the new-agey concept that "all sins are equal". Scripture clearly shows us that some actions are sins while others are considered abominations to God. Jesus himself pointed out that there are "weightier matters". When we cause a brother to stumble or a person who is lost to consider Christ less because of our actions, isn't that a greater matter than my personal sin that does not impact others around me directly? Just a thought...
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Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/08/07 09:26:46 PM |
Age 31, CA |
WOW,
you people have no idea how a buisness runs do you!! You are acting like Rupert Murdoch took the pictures himself and published them. The guy can not micro manage every photo printed in the paper. Never mind the fact that I teach high school sciences classes and I see more "soft core" porn that, on any given day.
I wonder if the writter of this article attemped to contact Rupert Murdoch or Rick Warren, first like the bible says to do.
Christians are just like sheep they poop, pee, and step all over each other with out ever thiking of the consecquences.
I read this article 2X and so interest in restoring only condeming. Just as if Jesus wrote it himself.
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- Re: Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/09/07 10:22:27 AM | | Age 49, TX |
I do agree with you that when a brother is 'overtaken' in a fault that any initial confrontation about his sin must be done one-on-one and after much prayer and self-examination (Gal 6:1). However, there is no way you can biblically justify shirking your responsibility to God with an excuse that the pornography your company produces "is just business", and that the burning of that filth and stopping its future publication cpuld any way be considered micro-management. Whether Mr. Murdoch believes it or not the wealth given to him was by God alone and "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required" (Luke 12:48). 30 mem lost their lives and their families all suffered because of Achan when he took of the 'accused thing' in Joshua 7. Did those men have anything to do with Achan? In somewhat the same sense Christians suffer rebuke from the world when those like Mr. Murdoch, who claims to be a Christian, loves the pleasures and profits of the world more than he loves God.
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- Re: Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/09/07 04:23:33 AM | | Age 52, CA |
WOW! You're a teacher? The writing skill you display leads me to wonder how many times you took CBEST before you passed it. I pray that you don't work for the school district that employs me. From what you've written here, it doesn't appear that you have professional pride. BTW: Murdoch took a failing tabloid (The Sun) and infused new life into a dying paper by adding the page three girls. Murdoch knows exactly what he's doing in the business world. You do not. Also, are you claiming to be Christian? Well, if you are God bless you. If not, why not check out John MacArthur's book, "Hard to Believe." I think you'd benefit from it. You would benefit from it even if you are a believer. Once again, Lord bless.
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- Re: Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/08/07 11:49:32 PM | | Age 43, NC |
Public sin is to be dealt with publically. Is pornography sin? The seventh commandment says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Jesus in Matthew chapter 5 said, "but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Romans 2:22a, "Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery?" Romans 1:29-32 ..."who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." One does not have to be an on screen participant in order to be guilty of this sin. The voyeur is as guilty as the one engaged in the fornication. King David started as a voyeur and it ended in murder.
Now what will RW do? Is church a business that is to be run a practically as possible? Or is it the work of God through His people according to Scripture? What do you reckon RW will do? Risk alienation of the cash cow by applying biblical discipline or work on that 20% of common ground he has with pornography? Deal or No Deal?
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Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/08/07 08:21:39 PM |
Age 29, PHILIPPINES |
I suddenly am reminded of the book In His Steps, there's a character there who owns the "Paper".
WWJD?
^_^
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Is this a money issue?
| Posted On: 05/08/07 12:54:15 PM |
Age 40, TX |
Ken,
You wrote, So now we can see that Rick Warren already at least knew about Murdochs newspaper which features soft core porn, however, apparently he chose to ignore that 80 percent in sin and focus on the 20 percent that equaled $2 million. Chris Rosebrough chose to leave that as one of several possibilities why Rick Warren has not publicly disciplined Murdoch. Do you see the difference?
I agree with both you and Chris that Warren has a duty here but we need to leave open the possibility that he may be doing something in private first. My issue is that you chose to pass forth an assertion with no basis in fact unless you know something we dont.
So, a direct question for you. Do you know for a fact that Warren is ignoring this discipline issue for money? If not, why would you state it as fact?
Darren
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- Re: Is this a money issue?
| Posted On: 05/08/07 05:33:42 PM | | Age 51, NH |
Darren, you quote me: So now we can see that Rick Warren already at least knew about Murdochs newspaper which features soft core porn, however, apparently he chose to ignore that 80 percent in sin and focus on the 20 percent that equaled $2 million...then you ask: "Do you know for a fact that Warren is ignoring this discipline issue for money?" Darren, do you know for a fact that Warren isn't? Then you possibly in an attempt to rush to judgment you miss the mark as you misstate: "If not, why would you state it as fact?" You did see the word "apparently," right? As in, conjecture; possible my opinion, could have been a motive. Hardly stated as "fact." Better luck next time.
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- Re: Re: Is this a money issue?
| Posted On: 05/10/07 02:33:51 PM | | Age 40, MN |
"Better luck next time." ??? What is this, a game show where the host is competeing against the audience, trying to one up them? What a strange way to end your post Ken, what do you mean by it? I'm really interested.
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- Re: Re: Is this a money issue?
| Posted On: 05/09/07 12:39:54 PM | | Age 40, MN |
What did you really mean Ken? Look up apparently in a thesaurus and here's some of what you find "in fact, actually, evidently, obviously" and in the context of the sentence, these fit perfectly - fess up - this is exactly what you meant to say? That is precisely the point and connection you want us to make all through your article, why do you act like it isn't?. //And you avoid the question - did you try to talk to Rick Warren about this matter before trying to shred him publicly? // Wasn't the entire purpose of you piece, not to right a wrong, to help somebody get back on track - but to discredit Warren?
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- Re: Re: Re: Is this a money issue?
| Posted On: 05/15/07 10:36:08 AM | | Age 45, IA |
Ken? Ken? You still out there? Your silence on this speaks volumes.
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- The real issue?
| Posted On: 05/09/07 10:04:40 AM | | Age 40, TX |
For the record, I would love for you Ken or Rick Warren or anyone to grab Murdoch by the spirituall collar and bring down the industry of the pornography he is furthering. Darren
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- It is a truth issue?
| Posted On: 05/09/07 09:58:22 AM | | Age 40, TX |
Ken,
My Webster’s dictionary defines apparent as 1 : open to view : VISIBLE 2 : EVIDENT, OBVIOUS 3 : appearing as real or true : SEEMING. So you can see why one would think that you must have had some pretty solid evidence. Why would you want to further the flippant assertion made by a secular newspaper? In Christ, I appeal to you to read Matt. 12:36.
Would you have a problem with this? The Los Angeles Times stated that John MacArthur will make money from his new book The Truth War. Apparently he wrote it just to make money. Now I can just add your line, “hardly stated as fact” to define apparent and all is well.
How do I know Warren isn’t doing for the money? I don’t and neither do you.
For other readers: I do believe MacArthur wrote the book to edify the church and not for money. I was using it as fictional example.
Darren
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Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/08/07 11:16:06 AM |
Age 57, LA |
This is appalling, but not surprising. I could make several other comments, but Gods Word says it far better that I ever could. 'If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.'2 Chronicles 7:14 (NKJV) This scripture is calling CHRISTIANS - God's people - to humility and repentance, and Pastors have much more accountability as the article states. This country is on a downward spiral, and we are often too hasty to put the blame on the 'ungodly, unsaved heathens'. How sad it is when Christians, who are called to be set apart from the world, lose the salt of preservation and let their light grow dim. These people need prayer, and we need to ask God for wisdom and discernment as the end of time grows ever closer. Maranatha!
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Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/08/07 11:07:43 AM |
Age 20, NC |
Rupert Murdoch a born-again Christian? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.
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- Re: Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/10/07 12:56:04 PM | | Age 37, MN |
http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Document.aspx?id=B224C88D-3D13-4652-9D22-33FD2D80FD2C
There's a 2006 businessonline article claiming it.
By : Rupert Steiner - City Editor
12/02/2006 "RUPERT Murdoch, the born-again Christian who chairs media giant News Corporation, has been secretly building a stable of wholly-owned pornographic channels for his BSkyB subsidiary...."
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Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/08/07 09:07:49 AM |
Age 41, SD |
All Christians need to examine their business and rid any evil that they profit off of. It appears that Rupert Murdoch
knowingly is profiting from evil. It is so tempting to rationalize it perhaps by thinking that "Well, I don't watch porn, so therefore I am not personally sinning." Yet Murdoch is getting paid from the sin of others. Only God can truly judge him when the time comes, and I pray for his repentence before that. We all need to humble ourselves at take on the attitude of Paul, who gave up prestige, honor, and money for the cause of Christ..."But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteous of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Chirst-the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith."
I watched Rick Warren's special the PEACE plan, and although the root sprang from noblest intentions, Rick has let pride and prestige cloud the fact that he can not bring peace to the wold and end poverty and disease. So as long as the world remains, there will always be famine, disease, and wars. In fact these things are getting worse and will get worse, as these events are just the begenning of birth pains to the real trials and tribulations this world will face before God places all things under the feet of Jesus. (i.e., when the throne of Jesus will be established, and the earth His foot stool.)
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- Re: Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/08/07 03:20:42 PM | | Age 58, MN |
Mr. Silva's appeal is only valid in one case and one only: if Mr. Murdoch is a member of Rick Warren's church. That did not come out in the post.
As a pastor, I have had over the years many individuals who spent time with me, attended my church, had Bible studies with me, sought my counsel, and fellowshipped in many ways with me, my family, and my church family. If you asked, these folk would say that I was "their pastor." (And for some of these, I had their funerals.)
But...they never joined my church...I wished they had and counseled them that way from Scripture. They chose not to and had no "body" life.
Since discipline is solely and wholly the responsibility and obligation of the local church (Matt 18), Rick Warren cannot truly "discipline" Mr Murdoch for his egregious sin and hypocrisy unless Mr Murdoch had in the past formally joined the Saddleback church, thus putting himself under its authority and accountability.
Why bring this up as a fault of/challenge to Pastor Warren if we do not know that Murdoch is one of his members? And if he is, the burden of discipline falls on the church body, not the pastor exclusively.
PS: I am no fan of the Warren/Saddleback phenomena at all...just believe in NT polity.
JMcLeish
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- Re: Re: Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/09/07 06:10:08 PM | | Age 34, CANADA |
As I see it, the big problem here is that Rick Warren speaks sloppy. What else is new? Sure, if Murdoch is a Christian, Warren has a responsibility as a friend and brother to admonish him -- but so does every other Christian.
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- Re: Re: Re: Purpose Driven Pornography: Why Rick Warren Must Publicly Discipline Rupert Murdoch
| Posted On: 05/08/07 05:38:10 PM | | Age 51, NH |
By claiming to be this very high profile man's pastor Rick Warren has thus obligated himself now to publicly denounce Murdoch's blatant sin and to "discipline" him by disassociating himself from Murdoch if he doesn't repent.
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