Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 08:45:31 AM |
Age 52, AR |
The article rightly said, "people need to repent for their sin. Jesus is not a life enhancement, He is life saving." HERE'S THE TRANSLATION: People need to be saved from their sin, not just the consequences of it.
Ministers that offer a salvation which does not require life transformation are inoculating millions against the real thing.
If you were the devil, could you devise a more effective way of assuring sinners they need not fear hell (and God who will send them there)?
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 08:27:46 AM |
Age 46, MI |
I believe that would be hunger "pangs", not "pains."
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 05:22:23 AM |
Age 47, WV |
Amen, Amen!
This article is so true. Sadly, probably the ones who need to hear it will not read it and think about it....
bob
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/15/07 11:46:27 PM |
Age 52, IN |
I think we should just state that fun events like Christmas pageants are for enjoyment and a maybe a little education.
I would add to this articlelets not call these events worship.
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- Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 06:30:55 AM | | Age 51, TN |
It would be far worse for a church to hold a Christmas program and not give people a chance to respond to the gospel. Our church is busy Monday morning after the programs going through the cards and setting up times to meet w/ those who indicated a decision or simply said they wanted to know more.
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- Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 05:13:42 PM | | Age 51, MN |
I'm glad that your church does follow up on the names on the cards after the church musical. Our church has people fill out the cards after the musical, takes a count to see how sucessful it was, and then throws the cards away. They wouldn't want to take away someone from their own church! I wonder why they even bother with the cards.
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/14/07 09:01:18 AM |
Age 64, AL |
Ray, What do you think about the alter call as it is practiced in churches today? Doesnt it make the preacher a liar when he calls for one more stanza, more than once? Doesnt it relieve him of his responsibility to confront each person individually with the gospel? Isnt it Satans best device to keep people from getting saved? Why do churches that use this manmade device say that churches that do not are not Christian? Are people who answer an emotional alter call, without thinking it thru, really doing anything eternal? Forgive me if I offend you, that is not my purpose. My prayer is that all people will have an opportunity to be saved. I believe this is best achieved by personal confrontation. Captured by HIS grace, Gene
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- Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/16/07 08:52:06 AM | | Age 39, NC |
Regarding the altar call question, I truly believe that this carnal, prideful, and reeks of the flesh.
It is man preaching and saying "look how many came." But did they come to Jesus with a Peter repentance or did they come to the preacher with a Judas regret.
Salvation is of the Lord and the born again experience requires repentance.
That could occur after service on the ride home.
It could occur at home in the dead of the night.
The Pharisees were known for compassing land and sea to make a proselyte but the problem was they were not converting people to Christ.
No one can come to Christ except the Father draws him.
Our job is to simply throw out the seed.
Sow the seed and let the Holy Spirit do HIS job.
When and How that seed germenates is none of our business.
We must focus on doing what we have control over and allow the Lord to do the rest.
Forgive me for any misspelled words or incorrect grammar.
God Bless!!!
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- Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 06:39:21 AM | | Age 51, TN |
Most of the people who walk down our church aisle at the invitation do so because they want to join the church OR because they had been led to the Lord sometime in the past week. Sunday was different! Two young women were saved. Honestly I can't remember the last time that happened! (except for youth!)
The Holy Spirit works in people's hearts 7 days a week. Occasionally we see results on Sunday.
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- Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 06:34:17 AM | | Age 51, TN |
Most of the people who walk down our church aisle at the invitation do so because they want to join the church OR because they had been led to the Lord sometime in the past week. Sunday was different! Two young women were saved. Honestly I can't remember the last time that happened! (except for youth!)
The Holy Spirit works in people's hearts 7 days a week. Occasionally we see results on Sunday.
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/13/07 05:38:02 PM |
Age 44, PA |
Here it is, preach the offensive Gospel at work, in the streets and the rest (really all) is up to the Holy Spirt. What people do with the Gospel will determin their eternity, if they fall on their faces and repent, that's it. If you trick people into a comfortabe pew with donuts, coffee, plays, music, soothing sermons and hope for osmosis to take place you are just building an American Church. The Gospel IS offensive, if it isn't it's not the Gospel! The American institutional church is a scam.
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- Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 01:37:27 AM | | Age 32, CA |
the idea of "preach the offensive gospel and let the holy spirit do the rest" is just as much of a cop out as merely inviting people to sit in cushy seats for entertainment-church- both are a way of evading responsibility to Christ and to our fellow man- neither require much of a person.
the true work of the Gospel is much more demanding- it transforms not only the hearer, but the speaker as well. we are to be winsome and wise- not to err to much on either side- too much truth and people won't hear, too much love and they won't understand- we must balance truth and love, and not use either the cop out of "I will let my life speak" or "the gospel is offensive". both are masks to hide comfortably behind.
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/13/07 03:00:12 PM |
Age 46, ME |
Thank you. Every time I feel convicted for this message. How to communicate it to the evang. training committee my greatest struggle. Keep up the good work.
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- Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/14/07 01:05:47 AM | | Age 69, IL |
A rousing AMEN to your great article!! Years ago, I heard a preacher say: "Sheep beget more sheep, and then they bring them to the shepherd (pastor) to be fed."
Your description of a Christmas musical with life animals, etc., made me laugh. I was in the choir of a church that did that all the time. I, too, felt the "altar call" was a farce! People don't need entertainment, they need Jesus! Thank you so much, Ray Baumann, for this wonderful message.
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- Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 08:08:21 AM | | Age 37, WV |
I have been thinking along the same lines of this article for a while... and am now convinced I am NOT crazy. THANK YOU. My church has gone from convicting to entertaining, and I am not happy about it. It seems like every week now the projectors must be on, and the amusing stories must be told... while so many people thrill to the surging attendance! Did I miss something? Does a pew full of entertained people (new and old) equal "success"? Where's the heart rending message? Where's the love? Where's the fire? Why do we spend thousands of dollars on new equipment or for yet another upgrade to the newly expanded building, yet "pray" we can get a $1200 offering for retired ministers? Church every Sunday has become a chore instead of a delight. Lord Jesus, cleanse us!
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/18/07 10:39:16 AM | | Age 57, AR |
I think this entire article shows the total misunderstanding of how the Holy Spirit works. No matter what we do we can NEVER convict someone. That is the job of the Holy Spirit and He can use anything that He wants to. I personally came to know the Lord as a pastor's wife at age 24. I had been a youth director for several years and had led many of the youth to a saving knowledge of Jesus. The Holy Spirit chose to use a lost person as an instrument to convict these people and as a result them come to know Jesus. So many times times we forget that the Message never changes but Methods do. I have been involved in MANY different types of evangelistic efforts. I personally witnessed 500 people coming to know the Lord during a series of plays done where I played the part of Mary Magdelene. Yes, they were all followed up. The Word tells us that "some plant, some water but God gives the increase." My husband planted seeds for two years into the life of his doctor before my husband died. I was able to lead that doctor to the Lord 4 months after that. My prayer is that the Lord will make me aware of all the lost people that cross my path everyday and sometimes that means inviting them to church where the gospel is preached.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 08:43:35 PM | | Age 45, NC |
I agree with the author, but after reading some of the posts, I also see the other point of view that God can use anything to plant seeds and convict people. I was drawn to the Lord through seeds planted during my Catholic upbringing as a child and through a TV evangelist as an adult! Even though there were weeds, there were genuine seeds too. Thank God I have matured and learned real truth in some sound bible teaching churches. I have also studied a lot on my own. Sadly I have had to sift through a lot of misleading doctrine and attend some churches with questionable teachings which I realized only some time afterward. Churches are really missing the command which says to make disciples. With the style of most church services now, the discipling is minimized and recruiting is maximized. The American church does not seem to be for the body of Christ, but for those who want to belong to a community center. My head hurts every Sunday after looking at our bulletin which is filled with advertisements for the next 10 church functions. The problem comes in when everyone is expected to participate in and support these activities. It can get so overwhelmingly busy, that people burn out and then don't have time for their own families or building relationships with those outside the church who may need the gospel-- or even for supporting missions. But, I do say God bless those who can keep up with it. Everyone certainly has their own gifts and talents as the Holy Spirit has seen fit (although I don't recall drama being one of those gifts). I truly appreciate participating in the observance of the Jewish feasts because of the relevance to scripture and to Christ the Messiah. I have become very weary of the Christmas and Easter activities which originated in paganism but now have been Christianized. Didn't God say something in the Old Testament that we should not mix seed and things that are unlike each other?
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 02:13:04 PM | | Age 65, WA |
To start I say yes, He told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, the JEW first..not many do !! and how in the world did the church think they replaced Israel? Gen 12 and Ezekiel and many others tell us the story. G-d was talking to the Jews till Acts...He hates paganism and traditions of men. He is coming to the MT of Olive and bring up the dead and take away the sins not NYC. Apostasy is big as it has to come just before the rapture. It is a heart thing but with the ONE gospel. We are not to learn the ways of the heathen..He said so. Now most are all signed up under the Catholic church who says they searve the same god as the muslims..HELLO !! the world is in the church, the true followers are leaving not setting up His Kingdom cuz He said it was NOT of this world. the church left will hand power to antichrist. Rev 12- 17. we need sorrowful repentance not the world in the chruch with Constatines ways.
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