Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/13/07 04:00:00 PM |
Age 75, NY |
At the risk of sounding pompous, like I have THE answer to this appalling problem, I offer that the major contributor to this problem is one that generally goes unrecognized. At least, it is not mentioned in the central article or any feedback.
That problem is EVILUTION (misspelling is intentional). From formal teaching in the public school Biology classroom to being surrounded by the interjection of evolution in most nature programming and media articles, it permeates our lives and pollutes minds. It undermines the very foundation of our faith, Genesis, and has prominent theologians duped into acceptance or compromise, from the Pope to the apologists, theistic evolutionists.
Mr. Edwards states quite accurately that the battle is for the hearts and minds of students. No one has recognized this better than the secular humanists and their recognition of the importance that evolution plays in capturing the hearts and minds of students. Not only have they recognized it, they have captured the classroom and have an exclusive foothold. Recent efforts to introduce Intelligent Design have brought focus on the problem but have also strengthened the resolve of evolutionists to the point of developing curricula down to and including kindergarten level!
That is where the battle lies and, on this issue, Christians have fiddled while Rome burned. We have relinquished our hold on public schools and what is taught. Our solution seems to be one of avoidance by home schooling and developing Christian schools. But once these students are loosed into society, they are fair game for the evolutionists. And from the statistics mentioned in the article, they are winning, by a landslide!! Christians need to case their fiddles and head for the extinguisher.
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Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 06:47:34 PM |
Age 44, PA |
Churches need NUMBERS to pay the salarys so preachers make salvation eeeasy, and the deceived will have kids and so on and so forth, till most of the pews are filled with unregenerate people who think they are going to heaven. Most young people never return to the institution because they've never been born from above and also see the hypocrisy in playing the church game with no life! They may also stay home because they see no relation between the present church politics and the Bible.
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Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 05:38:04 PM |
Age 52, AR |
The problem with college students is church-wide.
Over half of Americans have repeated a salvation prayer and think they are saved as the result. Less than 10% show the fruit of salvation. Instead of telling people they need to truly repent, we evangelicals try to teach heathen how to act like Christians.
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- Re: Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/13/07 09:42:04 AM | | Age 44, NJ |
"It ain't no act...."
"Either you is or you isn't..."
Both of those are wise saying of a country preacher... they should be heeded...
The "act like a Christian" part is the EVIDENCE of whose you are, the RESULT of a NEW CREATION. Heathens cannot be taught, MUST NOT BE TAUGHT, how to "act" like a christian - that only makes them FALSE CONVERTS. "Unless you forsake your violations of God's LAWS, your lies, your stealing, your lusting, you will go to Hell." THAT is the initial explanation all heathen need to hear... unless you explain that sin is violation of God's Law, make it clear WHY God is angry every day over their sins, then they will think the Cross offensive and the grace of God's mercy foolishness.
How much clearer is that?
Patrick J Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
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Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 10:38:35 AM |
Age 44, NJ |
Let's all remember that the issue with "walking away" is one of False Conversion.
What did Jesus say?
"He who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of me."
The point?
When you are born again you NEVER GO BACK.
You cannot be un-born again.
So the real issue is we MUST speak the truth to our children; must make grace amazing; must not make the Cross an offense but glorious; must be sure our children are Christians.
So how do you do that? What did Jesus say is the key to knowledge?
.................
Well let me ask another question if you don't know...
Are you a good person?
Find out here:
http://www.livingwaters.com/good
or here if you prefer...
http://onlyjesussaves.com/good
There is a key to making the Grace of God amazing and the Cross a joy... find out what it is if you expect to see your loved ones saved; your friends saved; ANYONE saved... for good.
Patrick J Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
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Some right conclusions, but incomplete analysis!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 10:34:36 AM |
Age 36, MI |
As a college minister (9 years part time 5 years full time, currently serving 2 colleges, at one time have served students at any of 10 different institutions) I see the items that Mr. Edwards discusses. The "Christian dropout rate" is appalling!
I am so challenged by the liberal mindset of professors that I will soon be going back to school (fall 2008 is the earliest I can get in :-[ ) for a secular PhD so I can teach on a secular campus and counter some of that bias. (Not to mention that the doors are closing on campuses for ministers to effectively enter the campus without a secular platform (similar to what foreign missionaries use to get into hostile countries).)
I agree with the need to understand the battle, teach robust Christianity and teach the comprehensive Christian Worldview. I even think summit ministries is a great program (although the end of this article made if fell more like an advertisement than anything else).
Mr. Edwards, however leaves out the most important cause and solutions. The number one cause is that most of those who "drop out" were never saved in the first place. When I hunt down the "drop out" students and talk to them, invariably their view of church is a social club with sections for old folks that are seperate from youth. They view salvation based on a chicken coop mentality (I live in a chicken coop, I must be a chicken: I go to church, I must be saved) or a DNA mentality (my parents are Christians, I must be too...). They describe their youth groups as fun, enjoyable times, but not one of the drop outs that I have tracked down ever was challenged about their faith (one on one) by an adult nor were they in any intentional way discipled in what it means to be a Christian. Most have never even had anyone personally ask them if they are saved.
In addition to what Mr. Edwards stated, solutions to these problems are multi-faceted.
Number 1: we need to stop hiring/appointing youth ministers/directors who are good at having fun with the kids or who build a large group and instead hire/appoint those who will build spiritually strong members.
Number 2: the youth must be integrated into the spiritual service of the church so that they are not feeling that they deserve to have everything spiritual caterred to them (a yearly mission/vacation trip to Sunny Mexico with 20% Construction, 30% play, 20% travel, 30% sleep/etc and nearly 0% evangelism/discipleship does not count in my opinion).
Number 3: youth ministers must assume that their youth are not saved until they have evidence to the contrary...regular attendance and mom's assurance are not evidence.
All of the above suggestions are critical because statistics show it is far more likely to reach someone who is a teen living at home than when they get to college.
Number 4: Parents/Friends/Youth Ministers/Senior Pastors/Deacons/etc must take responsibility of contacting SEVERAL good ministries at each school where their students are going to attend. Give the name, interests, etc to the ministry and they will love the excuse to track your student down and get them involved. Those students involved in a healthy ministry are many times more likely to have true faith by the time they graduate college. Don't know where to go? Try www.student.org (search colleges menu), www.campuscrusadeforchrist.com/locator, intervarsity.org/chapters, www.navigators.org/us/ministries/collegiate or check with your denominational leaders about a group your churh supports.
Number 5: college ministries need to see any names they receive as lists of evangelistic contact potentials as much as lists of new members. When we approach marginal/non-Christians and what them to be heavily involved becuase their parents told us about them, we scare them off, or worse make them think they really are ok with God. We must use the contact as a way of finding out where they are and helping to move them (as individuals) closer to God.
All of these ideas are closely connected to a verse that should be a theme for every believer: II Timothy 2:2 (don't know it? Good time to look it up...feed yourself instead of being spoon fed!)
Thanks to Mr. Edwards for bringing up such an important topic!
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- Re: Some right conclusions, but incomplete analysis!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 05:24:55 PM | | Age 35, MA |
As an educator in a secular institution of higher learning, I find it downright insulting that anyone would assume that instructors have any interest or time to proselytize. I find it disturbing and quite frankly dishonest that someone would get a "secular" degree (the degree doesn't care what denomination you are--as long as you know your stuff) with the expressed purpose of injecting presumably irrelevant information into a classroom. I mean, we're not the ones indoctrinating here, but that's precisely what you want--you just told me so. It's also presumptuous to believe that because you are unable to go five minutes without preaching that someone who has a syllabus to get through and professional obligations can't leave their politics at the classroom door. The problem is not what we're teaching them, but that they are learning to think critically, learning to think independently. And that's the biggest threat to American Christianity. Excuse me, but I have to go teach.
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- Re: Re: Some right conclusions, but incomplete analysis!
| Posted On: 04/13/07 06:45:44 PM | | Age 36, MI |
If you are a Christian, it deeply saddens me that you would not have the time or interest to share the good news about Christ. What more important could there be? Of course if you are not a Christian, there are much bigger problems than whether you share your faith.
Of course it would be dishonest to inject irrelevant information into a classroom. I am offended that you are implying that someone who holds a motive of sharing Christ is by definition being "irrelevant". That is not what is meant by a platform. A platform is a job one does to the best of their ability to justify their presence in an environment for making relationships in a particular realm. But giving balanced views of truth is not injecting irrelevant information. (By the way, balanced does not mean PRO-Christian, it means balanced. Of course I will share what I believe, but that can only be justified OUTSIDE of class and outside of coercive situations. I am not an idiot!)
As to getting a secular degree not mattering as long as you know your stuff...that is true in some fields and some institutions, but there are others (such as the field of religion) where, no matter what you know, it is often assumed that you will have a bias if you come from a religious institution. The new definition in these fields becomes a statement that defines certain attitudes out of "knowing what you are talking about". If you don't believe this, read some of the other articles on this site and have your eyes opened.
I never said that I wanted to indoctrinate...I said I wanted a platform to be in the environment. In addition, many, many professors (if you read the above article) are indoctrinating, but for the wrong things. Indoctrination is part of the problem! Most students that I have worked with have not learned to think critically or independently in class, they have learned to parrot the politically correct party line and doubt that things like logic and authorial intent have any relevance.
I don't know you, you may be a very good and unbiased teacher. I truly hope you are. But I also know that if you are, you are among a dying breed that I hope to see live.
Oh, and I never said anything about teachers having lots of idle time, that is you reading into my post. But perhaps postmodern thinking has allowed you to concentrate more on your emotional response than on original authorial intent...a common malady in Western Education these days.
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- MINISTRY IS NOT THE ANSWER
| Posted On: 04/12/07 03:12:25 PM | | Age 63, OH |
MINISTRY IS NOT THE ANSWER; JESUS IS THE ANSWER. As I read you response I would think you feel that ministry is the answer. As you even state "helping to move them closer to God"; no man is ever going to move anyone closer to God. If a person is a real Christian they have been shown to trust God to save them. HOW COULD THIS METHOD EVER FAIL. If anyone trust in God to save them God will not fail will He. That is the whole problem; many of our churches are teaching people to trust in the church. How could that do anything but fail. No man or group of men can save anyone can they. The only job of any man called of God to minister is to tell people to trust in Jesus to save them. Yes there is many ways this can be told. But every message should be just that. 1 JOHN tells us to test every spirit. If a spirit is from God it will say Jesus came in the flesh and died for us to save us. So can't we conclude that any message that does not say that Jesus came in the flesh is not from God. No ministry has helped me stay with the Lord Jesus. It is the Lord Jesus Himself who has kept me and without His keeping me I would have never survived. I have not walked with the Lord for 33 years but He has held me in His hand for 33 years. Jesus has saved me day by day and second by second. The last step in a Christians life is the same as the first step. The same as we start by trusting Jesus to save us; we have to trust Him to save us every step of the way. This is the problem; when someone has been shown that staying in fellowship will keep them; then they are bound to fail. STAYING IN FELLOWSHIP IS NECESSARY TO BE SAVED; BUT THE FELLOWSHIP THAT IS NECESSARY IS STAYING IN FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD. Joseph did not even have the fellowship of his brothers but God sustained him. Jeremiah had no brothers or other ministers of God to fellowship with as he was the only one in Jerusalem. But God kept Jeremiah did He not. Anyone who has Jesus has everything there is to possess and he lacks not one thing. If we show anyone this fact and they trust in Jesus to save them; they can go anywhere on this earth and God will keep them. Lou
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- Re: MINISTRY IS NOT THE ANSWER
| Posted On: 04/13/07 07:12:31 PM | | Age 36, MI |
I cannot agree with you more fully when you say that ministry is not the answer. In fact, that is part of what I think the problem has been, we have spent so much time ministering to high school students that we have never taken time to see if they have a relationship with Jesus and sent them to Him who is the Answer.
When I say "helping to move them closer to God," I am using descriptive language that comes directly from scripture (Deuteronomy 28:2, Psalm 63:8, James 4:8). Of course no man can move anyone closer to God, but we can equip them with tools to read scripture, fellowship with the Lord, etc. that will move them closer.
You say that, "If a person is a real Christian they have been shown to trust God to save them. HOW COULD THIS METHOD EVER FAIL." That is a very correct statement, but how many people falsely think that they can rely on something else and yet think they are Christians. It is a job of ministry to show them the truth about this.
You then go on to say, "That is the whole problem; many of our churches are teaching people to trust in the church." I couldn't agree more, that is what is happening with the way things are done now. True discipleship is teaching them how to follow God (again a role of ministry). Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ". And the "things you have heard from me" that he mentions in II Timothy 2:2 are by no means limited to just issues of salvation...the majority of Paul's teachings are on Christian living.
When you state that, "The only job of any man called of God to minister is to tell people to trust in Jesus to save them," you are unfortunately not seeing some of the very clear instructions that scripture gives to ministers. Ephesians 4:11-12 specifically tells us that our teaching is for the purpose of building up the church so that church members can minister. It is essential that part of this is trusting in Jesus, but there is still a need for spiritual growth. The church ministries can and should direct people toward growth.
I agree that any ministry that doesn't say Jesus came in the flesh is not from God, but that does not mean that this must be the exclusive message! IF it were the exclusive message, how would anyone hear "Call on the Lord and you will be saved"?
It is very sad to me, but also accurate with my assessment of the way church (especially youth work) is done that "No ministry has helped me stay with the Lord Jesus." Any ministry should be an extension of Christ's body that He uses to draw people to follow Him, if it is not guided and directed by Him it is not a valid ministry!
Many youth groups are salvation by association...you make my point for me when you say "This is the problem; when someone has been shown that staying in fellowship will keep them; then they are bound to fail." True ministry is not association but is teaching people to be disciples. A natural part of this is staying in the assembly of the saints (Hebrews 10:25)
While commonly believed, your statemnet that "Anyone who has Jesus has everything there is to possess and he lacks not one thing," is scripturally inaccurate. If it were accurate, we would not be commanded to "bear one another's burdens" (Galatians 6:2). If one who is saved has everything, then why does Paul tell the Corinthian church (1 Corinthians 3) that they need to be fed meat instead of milk.
I love the comment that "If we show anyone this fact and they trust in Jesus to save them; they can go anywhere on this earth and God will keep them." My only question is "could he not use a ministry as His way of helping them?"
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- Re: Re: MINISTRY IS NOT THE ANSWER
| Posted On: 04/14/07 08:14:18 AM | | Age 63, OH |
Thank you for your kind response. I am encouraged that you agree. I want you to know that I was not accusing anyone in particular but just relating what I have seen and learned. You say the "anyone who has Jesus has everything and lacks not one thing" is inaccurate and not scriptural. I think this would be a good point of discussion as it could benefit both of us. My question: can you list one situation anyone, who truly has Christ and turns to Him for help,can be in and lack anything. Here is one of my favorite scriptures that I can say that The Lord has taught me is true; 2 Cor 6:10 "3We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. 4Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; 5in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; 6in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; 9known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; 10sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything." There are many times that I have failed the Lord too many times to count; and in many situations I have felt that I was in lack. I did not want to admit it at the time but felt that the Lord had let me down. But now that the Lord was faithful to me who was unfaithful to Him I can see He was having mercy on me. He was teaching, purifying, and taking me to new heights that I did not deserve to go. He could have left me where I was at but He took me, sometimes kicking and screaming all the way, to a place where I have found the Lord Jesus to be everything that there is. There is nothing except the Lord Jesus Christ He is all that there is. I used to think that I was at least something, but have found that I am truly NOTHING. I have met men who I thought were something and found that they were just like me. The only thing that they had was Christ. Even in the physical we can only exist through Christ. So we are His creation and any man that learns that fact deep in his heart will live forever; but anyone who refuses to admit this fact will perish forever. So again anyone with Christ will have everything there is to possess but anyone without Christ will possess nothing. Lou
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- Re: Re: Re: MINISTRY IS NOT THE ANSWER
| Posted On: 04/19/07 10:23:50 AM | | Age 36, MI |
Lou,
I tend to think that we are kindred thinkers who are used to different slants on the phrases we use. When I say "'anyone who has Jesus has everything and lacks not one thing' is inaccurate and not scriptural", I do not in any way mean this in terms of 1)salvation, 2)existence. Salvation is ONLY through Christ. Our very existence is ONLY through Christ. You ask: "My question: can you list one situation anyone, who truly has Christ and turns to Him for help,can be in and lack anything." I would respond that scripture tells us things such as "desire the greater gifts" (1 Corinthians 12:31). Scripture also orders us not to forsake gathering together (Hebrews 10:25). Scripture also says that Pastors, Evangelists, etc. are to equip the saints (Eph 4:10-12). The very definition of equip is to give resources that would not otherwise be available. So how can we be told to equip someone if they already have everything. II Timothy 2:2 tells us to teach things who can teach others (again passing things on to those who don't have them, and the context of II Timothy 2:2 is not in regard to sharing the gospel with unbelievers).
Now if you include those things in "having everything in Jesus" then I would agree with you that anyone who has Jesus doesn't lack anything, but most people I know who are "Jesus only" (to coin a phrase, which I in no means mean as offensive) take an attitude that says they do not need to grow or learn from other believers. These people (and I assume since we are conversing that these descriptions do not apply to you) tend to, in reality, rely more on their own interpretation of facts than on scripture because 'Jesus showed me the truth, so if you disagree you are wrong.'
Your reference to 2 Corinthians 6:3-10 is an encouragement, but its description of "having nothing, and yet possessing everything" does not imply that there is no more that can be added to our lives (or to Paul's life).
Matthew Henery comments on this passage:
"They were thought to have nothing, and silver and gold they had none, houses and lands they had none; yet they possessed all things: they had nothing in this world, but they had a treasure in heaven." (Note: in heaven, not yet possessed here.) In like manner, the Jamieson, Fausset, Brown commentary says: "for he possesses them all in Christ, his lasting possession, though the full fruition of them is reserved for the future eternity." So I agree with you when you say we have all things if you mean that we are guaranteed possession of them, but not if you mean we currently have them.
Like you, I too have failed the Lord in more ways than I can count. My failure is NOT because God has let me down because he has promised us EVERYTHING (II Peter 1:4) but we have yet to fully claim the promises.
As you say: "There is nothing except the Lord Jesus Christ He is all that there is." I can only agree based on two assumptions: 1) you include the body of Christ (the church) in this statement and 2) you include those God loves who will eventually join that body but have not yet.
"I have met men who I thought were something and found that they were just like me. The only thing that they had was Christ." Amen, they are men like me, but that does not mean that God has not given them useful insight that I may not have. God may have chosen to use them as the conduit that His Spirit uses to teach me.
As you say "So again anyone with Christ will have everything there is to possess but anyone without Christ will possess nothing," I agree. But I agree because of the verb tense you use: 'will posses' not 'possesses'. Often, it is the ministries of God through people in His church that He uses to lead us to these things.
Kevin
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- BOATS HELICOPTERS AND JESUS
| Posted On: 04/21/07 02:24:17 AM | | Age 63, OH |
Hi Kevin; I will try to be careful how I state this so please read carefully. Jesus is everything and is all sufficient. He is the Creator of all and the source of all good things. There is nothing that he can not give anyone who seeks Him. There is nothing good that he would not give to anyone who seeks Him. He is able to do a work within us and not without result. If we are not willing to do what He wants us to do Jesus is able to make us willing if we are willing to be made willing. There is nothing that He can not do and there is nothing that He will not do to help those who want to serve Him. JESUS IS EVERYTHING THAT ANYONE NEEDS. Try to humor me here and stay with me till I am through. At the same time there is the story of the man in the flood who was stranded on a roof. A boat came by, a helicopter came by, and the man kept saying that He was trusting in Jesus to save him. Well he was killed in the flood and in heaven asked Jesus why Jesus did not save him. Jesus said I sent a Boat that you would not get in , so I sent a helicopter and you would not get in that, so I thought you must want to come home. All we need is Jesus, but we are to treat all His gifts with respect. Anyone who has Christ has all of His gifts that Jesus desires to give Him for he has the giver of the gifts. Jesus will see that we get all that we need if we seek Him. Seek Jesus and all these things will be added unto you. We need to be equipped, and Jesus has appointed apostles, prophets, etc. But the job of these men is to teach us to go to the QUARTERMASTER JESUS. The QUARTERMASTER has all the equipment we need. The Church, ministers, gifts, etc are all gifts from Jesus, so if we have the giver we have everything. We have everything but we do not use everything or even sometimes know that we have everything. I say this in all the earnestness that I possess. If a tornado is bearing down on me, I am not in danger. I might feel in danger but I am not. If I turn to Him or if time is not adequate,and do not have time to even turn to Him. I can speak to that tornado and it will turn away, IF HE TELLS ME TO SPEAK TO IT. I know this is true because it happened to me and it turned right before my eyes. I was amazed but Jesus was not. If a father gives his son a gift, he is pleased if the son treats the gift with much respect and is thankful to him for the gift. But he is not pleased if the son starts to look to the gift and look to the father. Here is some wisdom that I read today that I think you will like.He that begins by loving Christianity better than truth will proceed by
loving his own sect or church better than Christianity, and end in
loving himself better than all.
... Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772-1824)
Thank you so much for your kind reply. Lou
lounewton1347@yahoo.com If you contact me at this address I have some worthy things that the Holy Spirit showed me that I will send you.
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- Re: Re: MINISTRY IS NOT THE ANSWER
| Posted On: 04/13/07 10:14:39 PM | | Age 63, OH |
Thanks for your kind response. Notice that I did not say that you were guilty of these thing but I commented on what I see happening around me.I have been to many churches in my area and can not find one that I could be of any use or that I could get anything of value myself. I love Jesus and just want to go somewhere and see Him glorified in some way. But all I see is lies and errors preached. You say that the statement anyone who has Christ has everything there is to possess and lacks not one thing is incorrect. I would like you to show me one situation that anyone could be in that has Christ and turns to Him to save them that they could lack one thing. Peace Lou
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- Re: Some right conclusions, but incomplete analysis!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 01:19:25 PM | | Age 44, NJ |
"marginal/non-Christians "
????????
There is no such thing as a marginal Christian. That is like saying you are little bit pregnant.
This mindset of "a little bit Christian" is heresy and must not be propagated.
Patrick Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
LEARN the Truth:
http://www.HellsBestKeptSecret.com
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- Re: Re: Some right conclusions, but incomplete analysis!
| Posted On: 04/13/07 07:21:40 PM | | Age 36, MI |
I am sorry if I was unclear when I used the phrase "marginal/non-Christians". By saying this, I was unclearly grouping several sets of people. Set one is those who are non-Christians. Set two are those who are "Lone Ranger Christians" or marginal. Set three is those who have salvation but have never grown and are also, therefore, still on the margins. I cannot judge the salvation of someone in the marginal group, but I can say they are not in a healthy place.
I agree the idea of "a little bit Christian" is false. I think you read my term to mean the people who might or might not be Christian and are standing with one foot on either side of the line. I was refering to two groups of people, the non-Christians who need to be shown their need to cross the line into salvation by grace through faith in Christ and the group who are close to the margin: who are fully Christians but have not moved away from that place and toward maturity in Christ.
THANK YOU for pointing out that my language was not clear!
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Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 10:00:25 AM |
Age 54, FL |
While I agree that Summit Ministries is doing a great job, they come up short on two counts (and I have spoken to David Nobel about this). (1) Summit's approach to worldview instruction is only offensive -- in spiritual warfare terms -- in nature. It doesn't really cover defensive operations. Just because a kid shows up for worldview instruction means he wants to be there, or that he's spiritually prepared and trained to handle all that will be taught about how to see through and shoot down -- albeit trying to win their lost friends -- countering worldviews. (2) Summit's approach is extremely Western/individualistic in that it doesn't address the community needs of their own graduates. Summit offers nothing (that I know of) to help their grads find each other and work together while at college. We are working on a model that does both, that will be unleashed very soon.
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- Re: Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 03:24:28 PM | | Age 63, OH |
All of this is fine and it should not go undone; but you seem to be missing the point. If someone has been shown to trust in the Holy Spirit then the Holy Spirit can guide them to Christian fellowship can He not. The Holy Spirit can truly take care of us can't He. He can teach us when we read the Bible or pray or walk down the street. Paul had been taught by the Pharisees. A lot of this teaching was from the pits of hell. Paul did not receive any Christian teaching from men. So how did he become an apostle and write so much of the new testament. Paul says that he was taught by the Holy Spirit and not by men. Don't you think that is why his ministry was so powerful. Don't raise up people to follow and depend on men. Teach people to trust in and follow the Holy Spirit and raise up men like Paul. Lou
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Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 06:27:07 AM |
Age 41, TX |
I thought it odd that the author didn't mention choosing the right environment. As parents, we have a responsibility to make sure our kids are in a Christ centered learning environment. If I wanted to guarantee that my son loose his faith I might send him to UCLA. If I wanted him to
grow in his faith, I would choose one of the many colleges that do strive to provide a
solid education along with a Christian
worldview.
This doesn't only apply to college age. Christian parents need to look carefully at the schools their children attend. If the public school is teaching immorality, we have a duty to remove our children from that
environment. We can home school or send them
to private school. Both of these options require tremendous sacrifice on the part of the parents, but aren't the souls of our children worth it?
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- Re: Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/13/07 07:34:43 PM | | Age 36, MI |
This attitude saddens me, after all, where does it end? Do you work in a Christian only company? Should you only go to Christian doctors and only have fun at Christian parks? Most evangelism is done by new converts, not because they are better at it but because they still have non-Christian friends! Our culture has forgotten that we are still to be in the world whil not of it!
As one called to reach college students, I am constantly praying and pleading for parents to send their spiritually strong children to secular places where they can impact the world in a way that a non-student never could. But it seems we send many of our best equipped warriors to the place where the battle is the least, leaving the hard battle lines to those not equipped to fight.
It breaks me to tears, even as I type, to think of how many people have not been reached because someone was "safe" in a Christian School.
Don't get me wrong...I think Christian schools are great for pursuing Christian oriented careers. As a seminary graduate, I obviously attended one! But if you are looking for a major in English, Math, Philosophy, Medicine, etc, why not take the time to equip yourself (through Summit Ministries, Focus On the Family's Truth Project, or even a year or two at a Christian College) and then go be salt in light in a dark and decaying world?
Parents: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE send me students who see school as more than education and socialization. Send me students who will see the college and university campuses as some of Americas neediest mission fields. (By the way, percentage speeking, there are many University Campuses that are less Christian that Budhist countries (Thailand), Hindu ones (India) or even Communist ones (China). Doesn't this deserve to be a mission field we target for the Lord????
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- Re: Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/13/07 08:01:58 AM | | Age 63, OH |
We sent our son to a Christian school in his junior high school year. I will say that the kids at the Heartland school were much nicer and my son made some lasting friendships. But the rest of the experience was more than dismal. His physics teacher was hard to believe. I had had some incompetent teachers in high school but this woman took it to new heights. My son knew much more physics than she did and she was often marking his correct answers wrong and would not change them even after he would show her in my college textbook that he was correct. But this woman was even more incompetent in his Bible class. In the book of Esther she was teaching the class that queen Vashti had a right to be disrespectful to her husband. I would expect my son to be taught womens lib in public school but I was not happy about paying thousands of dollars to have him taught this crap. In public school my son had scored the highest in the school on some tests when he was only a sophomore. He had taken his algebra 2 in the summer and scored the highest in his class so he could take calculus his junior year. Well this Christian school said he would have to take calc on the computor thru Ohio State U. But they neglected to sign him up in time and then tryed to blame him for the mistake. I went to the school and looked thru the computor files and found it was their mistake but he never so much as got an apology for it. My son got his first B in the physics course and was graded poorly a lot. His first paper in honors english he was given a F. He was broken hearted over the grade so I looked at his paper and it was on The Tale of Two Cities by Dickens. I had read the book and his answers were correct. He took the paper to his teacher and he would not change his grade. I went in to talk to the teacher and he finally agreed to give him a C and acted like he was doing my son a favor. I finally found out the problem. My son had stated what he had been taught by me at home on an unimportant Biblical issue and he was shown extreme unfavoritism in his grades for that reason. I am totally convinced of this fact for I was insulted right in front of my son for this belief that I held. The teacher assumed that I held this belief because he had never talked to me about it. My son received bad grades and was told it was because they held him to a higher standard than the public school. They were correct about that. They had a higher incompetency and level of unjust treatment than I had ever observed before. I took my son out at the end of the year and the state paid for him to go to the local community college for his senior year; he ran cross country for the local public high school and they won the state championship. He had set several school records in track at the christian school and the last time I was there his records were still not put on the board for that purpose. The community college gave him a four point average and he earned 33 college credit hours toward college. He goes to the local state university now and is much happier with his teachers there. We have found some poor teachers in the secular schools but we have also found more true Christians there then in the Christian school. Although I will say he had an outstanding gym teacher at the Christian school. I don't know what I was thinking when we enrolled him in the Christian school. The school was just like the local churches; full of error, hypocrisy and self righteousness. I was just so surprised to see them treat a child with so much meanness and so cruelly.
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- Re: Re: Why students walk away from Christ and what can be done about it!
| Posted On: 04/12/07 09:46:34 PM | | Age 35, AL |
Amen to this! I homeschool my children to insure that they are learning to see life from a biblical worldview. The thought of sending them off to a secular college which could "undo" all my years of hard work and sacrifice is apalling! Of course, I know they will be "of age" to make their own decisions then, but I certainly wouldn't pay good money to send them to one of these schools who employ such liberal teachers. They are so many educational options available to people now, even at the college level- distance learning, Christian colleges, apprenticeships - there is no reason to send them off to the popular state colleges just because "that's what we've always done".
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