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Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/02/07 04:01:18 PM Age 40, MN
Ken Silva, it seems to me, is fiddling while Rome is burning.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/02/07 02:10:54 PM Age 50, MN
What a shame that anyone who considers himself to own the 'absolute truth' should resort to namecalling and ridicule with an attitude of condescension. More people need to realize that we all are on a spiritual quest. We can love Jesus and still raise questions about what PEOPLE, over time, have done to Him and His message. MAYBE, just maybe, we (evangelicals) have had it all wrong all this time. Some of us love Jesus SO much that we are endlessly curious about what He REALLY meant with what He said and how He said it. Maybe we should all learn better how to cooperate and have discussions with dignity, respect, and compassion for one another.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/02/07 02:02:16 PM Age 76123, TX
Your article deeply saddens me. The hatred, the name-calling... I see and hear no Love in it. I always want to be so aware myself of Pharisee-ism, and I'm sure that you do as well. You might find it very revealing to take a more humble look at "the other side," with no more than a desire to hear and understand. As with the Pharisees, sometimes God offends the mind to reveal the heart. Attitudes in articles like yours are one of many reasons that I have found sanctuary within the type of community you would call a cult. I do not pretend that my church seeks or follows God perfectly, but we are seeking and following Him as best we know and can. We try to show deference where there is disagreement, we try to Love as Jesus did. Our God is a Big God. He will not be confined to the pretty religious packages we would like to fashion for Him. I'm sure you are also following Him the best way that you know. If people don't see Love in you, however, they might never believe it.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/02/07 10:46:51 AM Age 40, FL
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth will speak. Is this the kind of pastor you would want? What concerns me even more are those of you who think this is O.K. I have two words for you. WAKE UP!!!!!! You must be filling your minds with worldly movies and worldly ways if you think this Pastor who uses words the world uses to show disgust is O.K.......Is this the way YOU talk. Do you use the F-word when you talk to your children? I will finish by quoting a scripture verse. 2 Peter 3 ( ESV ) 3:14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. Any Pastor who uses the F-word is ignorant and if you think it is O.K. well.........I would have to so you are too!!! Forever Gods Servant, Scott
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/02/07 07:53:41 AM Age 46, VA
Dear Pastor Silva, I am not saying I disagree or agree wholeheartedly with your article. I would say two things however: #1 - It is just plain wrong to paint any kind of church movement/ideology/theology with such broad strokes and call it a cult! The Catholics stated the same thing of Luther and the list goes on and on about Christians pointing at the speck in their brother's and sister's eyes and even killing them for differences of opinion. However, at the time of Luther - who knew what the reformation would bring. If he had not done what he did, you would not have the opportunity to even call Mr. Jones the things that you do. You would be doing the sit/kneel/stand ritual of Catholicism or you would be a heretic yourself - no? #2 - Secondly, I have just about had it with brothers and sisters (Pastors and Radio talks show host like Dobson) berating people publicly either over the airwaves, on the internet, etc. This does not follow the standard of biblical discipline which you seem to want to espouse. Your sin of backbiting and gossip is just as horrendous as his use of the language. A sin is a sin my brother - plain and simple. I recommend you approach Mr. Jones personally; then if that does not work you go with others of your thinking, i.e., Chuck Smith, John MacArthur, and others and approach him in "LOVING" debate. Given the nature of today's abomination of denominations, you cannot publicly go to all the church's and cast them out, but you can certainly proclaim that from your pulpit for your church. However, to public ally humiliate, degrade, and name call without even going to the man himself - is just not in line with biblical principles in my humble opinion. Sir, I do not know you. I am sure you a good man but NONE of us is Good without the power and the blood of Christ. Mr. Jones is just a man - like you or I. God will deal with him if he is wrong, it is the responsibility of each person to work out their OWN salvation with the Lord and it is the responsibility of each person to be discerning through the Holy Spirit. The problem we have in America, is people are lazy they don't read, research, pray, etc.., and yes many will be led astray because of their apathy and laziness. However, that does not mean that we violate biblical principles in order to make them think that our way is the right way and others are wrong. They through God are solely responsible for that and there are a ton of scriptures to back that up - the parable of the 10 virgins is a perfect example of that. I close in Love and I will pray for you and Mr. Jones and all the leaders of our churches. Blessings to you and yours. IHL, Rich Merritt <((>< Acts 1:8
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/01/07 04:57:56 PM Age 34, MO
You know what's truly frightening here? First, Tony Jones basically said that the Bible is....frightening. He's right. And no one has commented on this...AT ALL. Not one single feedback has touched on this "frightening" concept. Everyone is distracted by his prior word. Worse, I had to scroll through 2/3 of the feedback to find even ONE person who correctly examined the Greek NT to discover that Paul knew how to use questionable language. This is shocking and embarassing to folks who've posted here. You're seeing the trees, and missing the forest. Additionally, I wasn't aware that using any particular word, in English, took away from the power of Christ's blood to save us. Did Tony Jones use God's name in vain? Nope, he merely offended the conservatives out there. Big deal...the emergent, younger crowd (which I'm not part of, incidentally) ignores most of them anyway. They want something authentic and real, which sadly, much of the body inhabiting these pages left quite some time ago. Tony Jones was speaking to a crowd of folks who was understanding what he was saying, in terms of audience and cultural exegesis. No doubt, if he was in Branson at a conference, he'd hopefully use different language. But I'm shamed by what I've read here. The ignorance is astounding. (My own is included here, obviously.) Jesus is the one who dared call a Roman political ruler a fox, an obvious insult. He insulted the proud religious leaders of his time. But if someone dares to imitate him linguistically, and offends others, let him be anathema. Is this the way it is? Biblically, I think not. I suspect most people on these pages won't know how to minister to or reach out to folks who call themselves "emerging/emergent," and are looking for real and genuine truth and spiritual life. And that's a shame. It's like when Tony Campolo said, during the '70s, I think, that a certain number of people in Africa were dying during his statement, and most people in America didn't give a d**n. In fact, most people were more offended at his word choice, than at the thought of people dying. People, for shame.
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  1. Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
    Posted On: 04/05/07 10:20:28 PMAge 17, IN
    Thank you. I think that you and I see eye to eye. For people to be caught up on English words and apparently not care about the lost that need reached is mind-boggling to me. Thank you for not being unreasonable. (It seems like whenever I start to think that I agree with someone, they make some comment out-of-left-field that makes my jaw drop, and then I move on to keep looking for someone who isn't insane. Thank you for not being one of those people. Thank you.)
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  2. Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
    Posted On: 04/04/07 03:49:59 AMAge 18, CA
    Thank you for your feedback. I think it was an accurate (yet depressing) summation of the mindset of most of the "Religious Right."
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/01/07 01:55:45 PM Age 63, OR
Ultimately it is Jesus who will judge professed Christians and their "motives" and actions. We who are earthbound are not to judge the motives of others - but we certainly may judge their actions, especially when it comes to apostasy. The ilk of Tony Jones, Tony Campola, Joel Osteen, Rick Warren and others (even those who posture so greatly on those man made doctrical issues which fragment Christ's chruch). Lambasting anyone for what they say or do is being judgmental so I strongly urge elders and pastors to focus on teaching God's Word and Truth rather than create a sense of worldliness in their ministry. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
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  1. Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
    Posted On: 04/03/07 09:29:54 PMAge 53, IA
    We are called to be ACCOUNTABLE to each other as Christians.
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    1. Accountable to God
      Posted On: 01/24/08 04:26:31 PMAge 53, CANADA
      Please provide scripture to back your statement. As a Christian I believe that our only accountability is to God.
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  2. Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
    Posted On: 04/01/07 11:25:40 PMAge 64, AZ
    The sort of milquetoast approach you seem to be advocating is the very reason we see such antics in the Church today. If this sort of behavior does not provoke an outcry then we are just plain toast. As believers we should not use such language, then to have a pastor do it from the pulpit referring to God's holy Word - this is blasphemy!! How can you treat it so lightly?
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the 3F-Bomb? on the Bible
Posted On: 04/01/07 12:58:16 PM Age 20, KY
Mr. Silva, While I appreciate your candor and zeal concerning the serious threat of the Emergent Church, might I suggest you handle it by not contradicting yourself. You said: "In his best spiritual fourteen-year-old pout Tony Jones" "the reasoning here by Jones is that of a child who has gotten into trouble and then thinks he?ll get out of it simply by saying, ?Well, he did it too!" " these repugnant Emergent punks" Ephesians 4:29, which I am sure you are familiar with, condemns this type of speech. So, while you're entire article is condeming the use of the F-bomb, you're using unwholesome speech to do so. That's like saying Tony Jones is an F-ing idiot for using the "F" word. When in reality, the word he used is only offensive due to culture and context, yet the words you have used are intentionally malicious and mean-spirited. While I am not Emergent by any means, I think you contradict yourself, and give many people plenty of reasons to adopt a "generous" orthodoxy. Combat the position, not the people. Personal insults only show your own insecurities and lack of logical/objective/critical thinking on the issue, and quite possibly a lack of study. May God continue to sanctify you and use you in His Kingdom, - Jonathan
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  1. Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the ?F-Bomb? on the Bible
    Posted On: 04/02/07 11:31:01 AMAge 27, VA
    Jonathan, Exactly what I was thinking myself. I find a lot of articles on this website that really bash people with other perspectives. If you disagree, fine, but don't make it personal. Your thoughts were absolutely dead-on.
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  2. Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the ?F-Bomb? on the Bible
    Posted On: 04/01/07 03:57:08 PMAge 51, NH
    Jonathan, "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear" (Eph. 4:29) One might argue that for someone to attempt to teach one of Christ's teachers how to teach what He taught him to teach could be considered "unwholesome" and not "good for edification." Rather than attempting to counsel me at this point I'd suggest you take some time to examine 1 Kings 18:20-40, and in particular verses 27-28: "It came about at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, 'Call out with a loud voice, for he is a god; either he is occupied or gone aside, or is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and needs to be awakened.' So they cried with a loud voice and cut themselves according to their custom with swords and lances until the blood gushed out on them." Since immediately after this God answers Elijah's prayer to vindicate His servant for boldly upholding His honor, one will have to assume that the Lord considered Elijah's conduct as being within the proper understanding of Eph. 4:29. Ken Silva, pastor-teacher
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the ?F-Bomb? on the Bible
      Posted On: 04/02/07 03:37:46 PMAge 35, MD
      So... when do you plan on calling down fire from heaven? Perhaps you could webcast it, because we'd be curious... If that is in fact going to be your proof of God's vindication for your snarky articles. So Dan Kimball is bad because he has a friend named Gary who has a band who associates with sinners?? Wow! How do you come up with this stuff?
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/01/07 07:26:22 AM Age 51, IN
While I in no way embrace the unwholesome language by the writer (Scripture commands that we abstain from it)deconstruction is something I embrace. Along with deconstruction must however come construction. Deconstruction, as I see it biblically, is putting off the old man. Construction is then putting on Messiah. In the professing church (of which I and all of you are a part) our deconstruction falls into the category of seeing our long held traditions that are in opposition to God's Torah (the foundation of all Scripture) and coming out of those practices. The construction part is putting on Messiah (the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world... that takes away the sin of the world... Jah's Passover) and walking as He walked. He did only what His Father said. So we should do likewise. Grace, the causative action of the Holy Spirit, through our faith - believing what He has said, working in our hearts (inner man/woman) making us His workmanship, created in Yahshua Messiah for good works, which Jah prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Set all the prideful arrogance of self imposed religion, haughty intellectualism aside and seek the wisdom from above and the Spiritual discernment of Scripture; Hear the call of the prophets of old and the Son who now speaks the same message to us as they: Repent from man centered religion and return to the Law of YHWH and live! It is really very simple but is complicated by our self seeking flesh. I struggle with it and so do you. That is why Messiah said the gate that leads to life is narrow and difficult and few go in by it, but the gate that leads to destruction is wide and MANY go in by it. So we must choose. We can continue to argue whether my man centered practices are better than yours, or whether your emergent direction is better the traditional churches continuing slide... or better yet hold them all and every thought we have up to the blinding light and scrutiny of Scripture. "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (fleshly-wordly) but mighty in Jah for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of Jah, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Messiah, and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfulled." -2 Corinthians 10:4-6 Our belief and obedience to what is written and rejection of every "high thing that exalts itself against" that knowledge is Scripturally accurate deconstruction and construction. Banner Kidd
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 03/31/07 11:37:24 PM Age 40, CO
i am shocked but not surprised at this Tony pastor guy who claims to be a christian, decides to speak like the lost. Scripture shows how one who is saved by God's grace should speak, not out of compulsion to not swear but out of a changed heart that is based on the forgiveness given by Jesus. Its being forgiven and out of a greatful heart that i dont swear. Its not a conscious work, but a freedom that only Christ can bring - apparently this guy doesnt have this freedom. Ummm.... I guess all that be "a slave to righteousness", "be holy as I am holy" and other commands doesnt mean anything to people like Tony - woe to those who call evil good, and replace good fruit of the spirit, with rotten works of sin. I can also imagine that this Tony guy doesnt preach sin, repentance, judgment or the need for a savior because of our transgressing God's law. Everyone else keep the faith and fight the good fight. Take care & God bless, Steve aka Xtian
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