Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 01:39:39 PM |
Age 46, CO |
I, too, believe that sin is a genetic issue. Our genes are God's chosen method of handing down traits from one generation to the next. Sin has caused a weakness in the system, allowing degeneraion. The lawlessness of sin entered into all creation, even the basic building blocks. Ever been stuck by a rose thorn?
We are sinners from our conception. Every baby has it's own personality & temperament, even in the womb. As a mom of 6, I can comfirm this! Every one of my children, a a very early age, began showing their sinful traits. Why does a two & a half year old even consider lying if it's not something that is part his sinful makeup?
To me, genetics explain why every individual has a weakness that Satan can play on to try & keep that individual from a complete relationship with God.
However, scientific theory or even physical proof of a genetic tendency toward a sin is NOT an excuse to sin. God says we are to overcome the flesh. That means we have to work harder to overcome the strongest tendencies toward sin that we have, not excuse them by saying "this is the way God made me". God did not make anyone a sinner. A fallen, degenerating creation makes everyone sinners.
In the end, it doesn't matter whether sin is in genes or there is another cause. We all have sinful areas that are stronger & more difficult to overcome. Whether it's stubborness that is used in a sinful way, or homosexuality or a sinful thought life that no one else can see, the sin is sin. In the life of a Christian, it must be turned over to God, & through repentance, prayer & constant vigilance, overcome by God's grace & mercy!
Pastors councilling homosexuals, liars, thieves, sluggards, gluttons, addicts (to anything), etc. should say "It's sin. Recognize it, repent, & work hard to stop!" Yes, I know it's a little more complicated, but those are the basics.
Dee
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- Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/21/07 12:53:33 PM | | Age 34, CO |
Actually it is not much more complicated than what you have done such a great job in explaining. We all fall under the category of sinful man regardless of what the specific sin is. We all need a savior, we all need to repent and be forgiven. Every single one of us has a predisposition that we constantly have to crucify with the flesh. Thank God that he provided a way for us to be forgiven. Thanks to the Holy Spirit who enables us to resist this predispositions. Thank God we can be victorious over sin.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 01:33:40 PM |
Age 57, ID |
There is nothing to discuss. Scripture states, "Judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off : for truth (John 14:6) is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter". Is 59:14 KJV
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them". Lev 20:13 KJV ('Jesus can not deny Himself'. 2Tim 2:13)
"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the women, burned in their lust one toward another: men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet". Rom 1:24-27 KJV
"For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect towards him....". 2Chron 16:9 KJV
'Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven...but he who does the will of my Father....I (Jesus) will declare to them, 'depart from me, I never knew you''. Paraphrased Matt 7:21-22
This nation has fallen from grace AND WE WONDER WHY our finances, marriages, kids, life are in the toilet! Judgment is pending (we are in the month of Abib). "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, "For whatever a man sows THAT SHALL HE REAP". Gal 6:7.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 01:09:39 PM |
Age 28, KS |
<i>Question: how do you tell a gay sheep from a straight sheep?</i>
Four sheep are held in place in an "arena": two rams and two ewes in heat. An additional ram (the one being tested) is brought into the arena and allowed to do as he likes. About 20% of rams were sexually active with both genders, 15% showed no sexual appetite at all, and 7-10% made sexual conact exclusively with rams.
You can read more about it at Slate.com. Just do a search on "gay sheep." Admittedly, I haven't read the research paper, just two articles on it. But I'm not sure how you get around the fact that some rams only liked other rams.
Also, Mohler's two posts are not necessarily contradictory. In the second he repudiates gene therapy. But hormone therapy is another possibility (the researchers in the "gay sheep" study think that bombarding fetal sheep with testosterone may reduce the number of rams born with ram-only preferences).
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 01:09:02 PM |
Age 39, CA |
Before I begin, allow me to provide a practical definition of homosexual sin so that everytime I use it, you may know from which perspective to interpret my comment. Definition of homosexual sin: committing sexual acts outside of the boundaries God had promulgated. The only boundary is the bed shared by a married man and his wife (a woman). By the way, fornication, adultery and other sexual acts committed outside of God's boundaries share the same definition.
I agree with the author's belief that the motive behind the gay gene is to justify a lifestyle that the Bible condemns.
I just have one question:
Considering the fact that Dr. Mohler used the word IF three times in his statement, why is it difficult to understand his response to critics, which included the word hypothetical in it?
For example, what IF a pig could talk would you talk to it? Or would you ignore it because you never thought it could be possible?
If youre wondering I am not supporting the gay gene idea Im only expressing what I understood by Dr. Mohlers original comment. He never said he was interested in the research, he simply rationalized, why wouldnt I talk to the pig?
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 01:07:38 PM |
Age 30, WA |
I would encourage anyone who really cares about what Dr. Mohler had to ACTUALLY say on this issue to go to http://www.albertmohler.com/blog.php?selectMonth=3&selectYear=2007 and read his comments concerning his misrepresentation. It's a shame when Christians fail to head Proverbs 18:13 and slam someone without hearing both sides of the story...this would include Mr. Camp. The secular community is seeking to discredit and destroy the evangelical Christian community every chance it gets. We need to safe guard our Christian brothers and sisters.
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- Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/21/07 09:17:19 AM | | Age 39, CA |
Thank you! Lord help us.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 01:06:51 PM |
Age 60, AK |
While I believe homophobia is the NATURAL human response to homosexuality and is actually to be regarded as normal as opposed to the "alternate lifestyle" I tend to think the article by the good Doctor might have been a bit of an overkill. I read it rather quickly but on reflection came away with the impression that all the genetic talk was strictly hypothetical and that the writer did NOT believe in such a thing as the "gay gene".
It is hard for me to take Dr. Mohler's comments any other way when balanced against his other writings and messages I have heard him deliver.
So I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt which perhaps Mr. Camp could have done by attempting a Matthew 18 style dialog with Dr. Mohler (if he had not) prior to publishing his article.
On the other hand I have to agree that anything a man of such stature puts out for public consumption needs to be done so with great care so as not to give the world any more ammunition than possible to shoot back at us or for them to twist to their own benefit.
Ron
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 01:00:02 PM |
Age 66, TX |
I truly am as astounded as I am dismayed by both the article and its associated commentaries. It appears that few if any have read Dr. Mohler's original blog or his follow up blog. The author has shown little appreciation or understanding of Dr Mohler's arguments and his rational for writing the article. Rather, the current author appears to be looking for a fight with criticisms which are presented in an insulting manner and convey a "holier than thou" attitude that is unbecoming for a Christian leader. In point of fact there is little, if any, difference between the author and Dr. Mohler's oft-stated and widely-written biblical understanding and position on homosexuality.
So what's the gripe? For the sake of argument, Dr. Mohler took the position that IF (and he assumed that was a very BIG IF) the genetic basis for homosexuality was found, it offered the opportunity for correction through genetic manipulation in utero - a possibility most Christian parents would welcome. Such a gene, however, would not abrogate the truth of God's Word or the responsibility of a person possessing the gene. There is no disagreement about the sinfulness of the practice of homosexuality! Please go to the original work and do your reading - carefully and with proper understanding - before you rant.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 12:53:27 PM |
Age 30, MO |
Every bit of you is inherited: a man can have his mother's eyes, ears, nose, and predisposition to longevity, as well as countless other deficits and advantages. Why is it so impossible for anyone to believe that you don't inherit the physical organic structure of your brain, which is built from the same genetic information that slaps together the rest of you, from your mother? You know, when you grow up and you realize that you are becoming your parents? Not just because you knew them, you know. You have many of their predispositions. Why is it impossible that significant segments of the procreative areas of the brain of a man might come from his mother? At the same time, I never decided that I liked girls, I just always did. I was never tempted to be with another a man. Not the slightest inkling. My preference for girls is not a choice. Why do we assume that gays' preference for men is? Last, why on earth would anyone decide to be gay in a country where we treat them like second-class citizens? They have nothing, absolutely nothing to gain from it. hj hjhop.blogspot.com
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 12:47:11 PM |
Age 50, KS |
It sounds to me like Albert Mohler may have simply let his musings be heard on "WHAT IF's" and came across as supportive. Perhaps Camp's response, while absolutely correct, makes an assumption not meant to be made. After reading Mohler's articles, this is clear.
Especially delightful was Mohler's observation that gays who wish to justify behavior through genes, now may find it backfiring in their face! I doubt it will happen, but the "perfect moral storm" (as Mohler says) involving the abortion of babies with known gay genes is very interesting!
Like global warming, I believe the gay gene is a myth. But does it hurt to think "what if" and what the ramifications might be on society? And what our response as evangelicals should be as well?
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 11:16:45 AM |
Age 46, MO |
I haven't read the full context of Dr. Mohler's remarks but I think he might not have covered the subject adequately to put his remarks in proper context. I don't think there is a gay gene either but if there was then I think it is fully understandable in a Christian worldview and I don't understand Mr. Camp's seeming hostility to that.
Since the fall we've had a downward slide genetically and have experienced any number of genetic variants and flaws turn up as a result of sin and also decay. There is a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, is Mr. Camp not aware of that? Does that remove the sinfulness of drunkenness? No, so I don't agree with Mr. Camp's point.
If there was a genetic variant for homosexuality it will make the argument against homosexuality harder but not theologically misplaced.
Did God create gays, drunks, birth defects, conjoined twins, miscarriages, or whatever else? No. I think Mr. Camp's theological point is not completely thought out.
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- Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 03:24:03 PM | | Age 54, OH |
Actually - Mr Camp's THEOLOGICAL point is not misplaced, whatever the Biological truth may be. I don't know enough about biology & genetics to have an opinion one way or another but I do know that GOD has declared certain activities to be SIN and we humans have to agree with that. No options other than being declared WRONG and ENEMIES OF GOD. Not a pleasant prospect to be sure. Knowing my own heart I spend a lot of time begging GOD to change it. I prefer to be a sheep herder or a weed puller in GOD's Kingdom to being a tycoon in this one. Much as I would like to win the Lottery :(
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