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Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in "The Genes"
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/21/07 06:32:30 PM Age 43, WI
We are all "born in sin". Only thru Christ we can be transformed thru the sanctification process. God clearly judges unrepentive sin repeatedly in life's manual; the bible. God does not condemn handicaps; born with a disability gene. Homosexuality is sin, not a handicap. Beware of the false teachers & the Laodecean churches as it states in the good book! They are lining up across America. Woe to a nation who calls evil good & good evil.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/21/07 08:56:28 AM Age 29, NC
Why would you need to change the Arminian gene? We know we are right, but we reserve the right to change our minds at any time in the future:)
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  1. Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
    Posted On: 03/21/07 01:05:50 PMAge 39, CA
    Arminian doctrine "can," in extreme cases, cause unnecessary, overwhelming burdens in the life of a newborn in Christ through legalism. This impedes spiritual growth because "the law binds us, but we are made free through Christ's death." Calvinist doctrine "can," in extreme cases, cause unnecessary, overwhelming consequences of sin in the life of a newborn in Christ through freedom. This also impedes spiritual growth because a tiny bit of unchecked "leaven can spread through the entire dough," and doing so "grieves the Spirit." Shouldn't we just be glad to be Christian? We were saved by Grace and not by works, but obedient to God's commands. Why? Not because we want to keep our salvation, and not ONLY because we're grateful for what Christ did on the cross -- but because the Love of Christ compels us to Love God; and from this love comes obedience. And through this obedience comes the inexpressible joy of experiencing the manifestation of His will in our lives. One question remains: instead of devoting any thought to the issue of whether we can lose our salvation or not, shouldn't we devote more thought to whether we are continually being conformed to the image of Christ so that we can be used by God? May we all continue to grow in grace, peace, and the knowledge of our Lord.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/21/07 06:43:04 AM Age 44, NY
If there were no gene or predisposition to sin, why would God have ordered the slaughter of ALL his enemies when his people entered the Promised Land? Sin IS genetic... We ALL have sinned. The sin which has entangled all of us has been passed down from generation to generation from the seed of Adam. If you can't see that genetics is how sin has been inherited/propagated, you need to take a second look. The only man born without sin is our Savior. His genetic material has been preserved throughout all the eggs from Eve to Mary. Since his father was not Joseph, his genetics are pure from Adam before the fall. I wish Christians would think before they leap into a discussion which eventually will make them look stupid. Is it because they do not believe that an all powerful God could cause a genetic malformation to occur in us all that predisposes us to a certain sin? THINK!
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  1. Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
    Posted On: 03/21/07 10:03:44 PMAge 43, NC
    Hmmm, The "sin" gene??? Salvation through science. That would certainly take a load of guilt off of us if we could find the gene that causes sin. That would make us victims of a birth defect thereby releasing us from the personal responsibility of sin. Sin was an act of the will, introduced into the human race by the first Adam. Sin changed the nature of man and his relationship with God, his creator. Now for there to be a sin-gene either Adam was given creative powers at the moment he sinned to create in himself such a gene or God created a sin-gene in Adam before He sinned thereby making God the author of sin. Heresy on both counts. The god of modern science would love for us to buy into the DNA "sin-helix" hypothesis. Seminaries will be mapping the sin-geome in search of a cure for sin. Why is it we are so intimited by our culture that we do everything in our power to make the Word of God conform to the science of this world? We are now entertaining the idea that God created a gene that predisposes people to sin, making God the author of sin??? Why are we trying to make excuses for sin? We all have sinned, we are sinners and each of us are guilty and condemned by that sin unless we have been born again, by receiving the gift of God's grace, through faith in the finished work of atonement by Jesus Christ on the cross, and new life by the power of His resurrection from the dead. There is only one cure for sin and that is found in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. Period!
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  2. Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
    Posted On: 03/21/07 09:52:48 PMAge 39, KS
    You were doing pretty good until the end. You are right. There is no reason why sin can't be explained by genes of a fallen race--humans. I don't have any problem reconciling the idea that there may be a "gay" gene with the verses that Steve Camp quoted from the Bible. Just because someone has a gene that may pre-dispose them to a certain kind of sin, does not mean that they are exempt from the consequences of that sin. That's why I am so disappointed in the arrogance of Steve Camp's article. But, your post also ended with some concerns. You have quite a theory about the the genetic material being passed from Eve to Mary and it not being imperfect, but I doubt there is much science to support that. So take your own advice, and don't state so matter-of-factly that something is the case, when you don't really know. It's an interesting hyposthesis, but it may end up making you look stupid in the end.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/20/07 11:40:40 PM Age 45, MN
I thought Mr. Camp did this very correctly and as he said toward the end of his article, lovingly. We have to get past the fact that every time someone in the Body brings correction that it automatically means "judging". I would love Christians to join in this fray for the alcoholics who have a "disease". Why have we as the Body given that one over to AA and let pass for free? If alcoholism is a disease (and it isn't) I tell my friends it is the only one that will keep you from heaven. People with cancer, MS etc can go to heaven. But the Bible specifically says that "drunkards will not enter the kingdom of God". HOw does one catch the disease of alcoholism anyway....at the store? While homosexuality is NOT genetic, I believe that it mainly comes from either porn, molestation or disfunctional parenting. THAT can give ALL of us more compassion on ministering to those without Jesus. John from MN
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/20/07 10:02:56 PM Age 53, IA
I had grown so weary of the countless numbers of times the EXCUSE of a particular "predisposition" to any given sin being "genetic" that I had started responding "all sin is genetic" - meaning that to be "all sin is original sin" - inherited from Adam - the problem is certainly NOT a physical attribute such as the gene code; it's entirely SPIRITUAL.
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  1. Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
    Posted On: 03/21/07 03:49:54 PMAge 64, KY
    Amen to this post. Biology is not destiny. The hereditability for homosexualism and alcoholism are both around 50%. This figure is derived from twin studies; identical twins raised in different homes are 50% more likely to both be alcoholic or homosexual than similar fraternal twins. This fact in no way excuses getting drunk or engaging in sodomy. The hereditabiity for the sin nature is 100%; nevertheless this fact does not excuse those so afflicted for sinning. Thomas Moore, Wilmore Kentucky.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/20/07 09:46:48 PM Age 41, NM
Dr. Mohler specifically stated that homosexual "behavior" remains sinful, no matter what genetics a man may possess. But genetic studies may find that some people have a genetic disposition toward homosexual "orientation". We need to keep in mind the difference between "orientation" and "behavior". I have a natural sexual drive toward women. And with that I have a responsibility to crucify my flesh and not lust. I also must control myself and not allow myself to commit adultery. My "tendency" or "orientation" is not sinful...it just IS. It becomes sin when I act upon my sinful tendency and engage in sinful "behavior". The same is true for a Christian man who has inclinations toward men. He must control those things. He must not lust. He must not commit fornication. I do not know if these "tendencies" are genetic in nature or not. Just that if I act on them, I sin against God and against my own body, as the scriptures teach. NO TEMPTATION HAS SEIZED YOU EXCEPT WHAT IS COMMON TO MAN (in other words no temptation is unique to me, my tendency is not some special circumstance that allows me freedom to sin) AND GOD IS FAITHFUL. HE WILL NOT LET YOU BE TEMPTED BEYOND WHAT YOU CAN BEAR. BUT WHEN YOU ARE TEMPTED HE WILL PROVIDE A WAY OUT SO THAT YOU CAN STAND UP UNDER IT. 1 CORINTHIANS 10:13 I do not believe Dr. Mohler was in any way excusing homosexual activity as something that is not sinful. It is. It always will be, just as adultery and fornication and beastiality and lust are always sinful.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/20/07 09:29:17 PM Age 41, MT
Regards to Steve Camp article: Steve, I appreciate your stand and committment to the gospel. You properly gave credit where due to Al Mohler, yet even though I am in total agreement with you on your rebuttal, I was a little disappointed. At some points you came across kind of arrogant, and a little more smart alecky than edifying. I agree with your stand completely, I just feel it is proper that we truly exhort in love, not with a hint of cockiness. Thanks again for your work. Scott
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/20/07 08:56:43 PM Age 16, MN
if one were to look at Doc. Mohler's writings, it would become very clear that he does NOT believe that sin is in the genes. yes, that is what he said in that one paragraph. but when reading ones writings one can't imply their own meanings. one has to read objectively. i understand that mohler made it sound like that was what he was saying but that is not what he was trying to imply. he was in fact theorizing. as a group of people had presented that argrument, he was simply saying IF THAT WERE TRUE, THEN... he never meant to imply that it was. i would urge people to go read his other works before coming to the concensus that he truly believes that. ~hillary age 16
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  1. Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
    Posted On: 03/22/07 12:36:12 PMAge 68, MA
    The Great Commission has nothing to do with theorizing about things we know nothing about. That includes speculating about scientific theory around gay genes. The Commission is to preach the Gospel and make diciples period, not cause confusion. The arrogant one is the esteemed Dr. Mohler. He opened his mouth & shoved his whole lower body into it, not just a foot. I don't have the time or patience to sift through any other gobbledygook he has wriiten. Will be too busy engaging in reading what God said in HIS Book. As no doubt has already been said, preach the Gospel, otherwise shut up.
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  2. Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
    Posted On: 03/21/07 09:43:35 AMAge 39, CA
    This is amazing: a 16 year-old is correcting several educated adults who apparently have difficulty distinguishing between hypothetical and actual expressions. I hope this 16 year-old's ability to read objectively doesn't become clouded by the many outside influences that, at times, create problems within the church.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/20/07 08:28:45 PM Age 77, MN
I think they are mistaking a genetic function for an endocrine function. Hormones can change the physical form and mental outlook from male to female orientation and vice versa. This is not genetic. This is apart from the volitional aspects of same sex desire which is sin. Endocrine misfunction can predispose one toward a particular thought pattern. The sin is there when a person acts on those predispositions. God gives us the ability to resist sinful actions.
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  1. Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
    Posted On: 03/21/07 02:58:57 PMAge 39, CA
    Yes, there is a difference between the endocrine system and genetics. But you cannot separate the two because one is dependent on the other. Genes contain the blueprint and operating instructions of the hypothalamus, the part of the brain that controls the pituitary gland. The pituitary gland (the master gland) controls other glands that produce hormones -- in this case, hormones called pheromones. Pheromones are the hormones that are secreted and attract members of the opposite sex to each other. Also, the sensory receptors in males and females are also physical features that are dependent on the genes. So, there is no way to rule the possibility that a gay gene can exist. However, even if one did exist, it still wouldn't justify the homosexual lifestyle because we are all born sinners (regardless of the type of sin) in need of salvation.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
Posted On: 03/20/07 06:40:29 PM Age 68, VA
I am a psychology professor. I have within the past three years developed several new coursed which has required an incredible amound of research. In the course of my reading I have learned that in various parts of this country and the world people have sex with animals. Will scientists find a gene that causes that. About fifteen years ago I wrote a 100 page doctoral dissertation on homosexuality. Let's get real and call it what it is. Any form of sexual activity preformed outside the framework of marriage (Heterosexual marriage) is sin. In 1973 Dr. Mennenger wrote a book entitled "What Ever Happend to Sin?" I ask that question again. If homosexuality is not sin, what is?
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