Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/16/07 07:04:29 PM |
Age 51, VA |
Your article is short-sighted. Yes, the church wants to provide all inclusive programming for the kids and teens. It is what any good company would do that wants to get customers into the store. But, suppose you freed your families up from all that church-programming and told them how to "be family" at home, and equipped them with spiritual resources, what then? We did exactly that for 15 years in our church. I was the pastor. Here is what happened: when the families had more time because the church programs no longer sucked all their time away, they went out and did 4H and baseball and karate and lots of other non-spiritual stuff. And they didn't evangelize either. And then when their teens got old enough to venture out on their own, these families jumped back into a program based church because they trust their kids to do the right thing. Programs aren't the problem. I could go on, but I must stop now.
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 04:21:31 PM | | Age 35, GA |
You are correct in saying that programs are not the problem. Parents are the problem. What the article was saying is that church programs exacerbate the problem by assuming the parenting role--but only because parents have absconded THEIR responsiblity. I know how hard it is to raise godly children--we are raising six of them. I totally agree with the post above that said homeschooling or truly Christian private school is part of the answer. However, even homeschooling one's children will not solve the problem if parents do not fulfill their responsibility to mentor, train and teach their own children. I know many homeschooled children who are equally as ignorant of God's Word and who are equally as swayed by the desires and demands of our culture as their public school counter-parts. The battle begins with the parents and whether or not God has first priority in THEIR lives.
We make it a priority to begin each day with Bible reading, family worship in song, corporate prayer time where we lift up specific requests for others outside our own family, and finally, the reading of a chapter from one of our books by Christian authors. My eighteeen, eleven, ten and eight year olds are all currently reading with me from Elisabeth Elliot's "Passion and Purity" and Joni Eareckson's "A Step Further". These are weighty books, and they address real world temptations for which I want my children to be prepared. We no longer look for church programs or big youth groups or glitzy special events. We want a church that teaches the WORD of God. We will do the rest at home. That is our job--it is the reason God gave us our precious children--to train them in the way they should go. If all parents were willing to make the sacrifices necessary to truly train their own children, we would see a radically different church!
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 11:17:22 AM | | Age 59, FL |
To 70 in FL:
This is Biblical and godly counsel for parents. You are exactly correct in your counsel. It is so well said, that I think I know who 70 in FL is and he lives exactly as he counsels. This article is so essential to the future of our children and necessary for the future of the true Church of Chirst that I wholeheartedly support this Pastor and father. This is why our church is essentially a family intergrated church where the fathers are counseled to "bring the children up in the training and admonition of the Lord" and the church is there to teach and strengthen the faith of the fathers and mothers in bringing their children up in a godly home with teaching a Biblical Worldview of all life, faith and practice. May God bless and call more Pastors like Ray Baumann to shepherd the sheep under the Chief Shepherd, Jesus Christ!
AMEN!
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 08:40:06 AM | | Age 44, NE |
As to the comment concerning families finding other things to do with their time (baseball, karate, etc.) instead of church; doesn't that speak to the lack of integrity that those believers have? Is Christ and His Kingdom that low on the priority list for those folks? "Where your treasure is, your heart will be also." If the only way that you can "keep" a person Christian is to keep them busy in church, then we have truly failed the Great Commission, "therefore, go and make disciples of all nations".
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/16/07 11:08:45 PM | | Age 68, MA |
Romans 1:16 " For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Preach the Gospel & forget the programs.
The church cannot be compared to a company trying to get customers through the door, a real church is an assembly of believers.
Time for the church to stop trying to emulate the world. Preach the Word & God will see to the increase.
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- Re: Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 08:47:59 PM | | Age 55, TX |
yes--thank you: you,ll notice even in villages away from "christian vaccination programs" the difference between light and dark is a clear line --and the light drives the dark--the new lives of the youth in christ will hold up to the dark offered them and the Truth drives their coming together for Commonality-communion---they are driven by Life to gather[parents and youth] instead of driven to gather to show and tell Life--oh, Lord i am sorry for missing my three babies-27/25/23 years old in some of their years--your Mercy come to us in our man made drives looking for Life--
my heart hurts, but thanks for the article.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/16/07 05:25:20 PM |
Age 39, MI |
We have 7 children, 8 on the way and for the past several years my husband has taken this responsibility seriously. Daily family devotions, having the kids memorize scripture and being a wonderful example. The fruit from this has been very sweet! Our kids also have time to serve the widows and sick and whatever arises because they are not so busy with such programs. This is where we have found true joy - in serving God! God always blesses obedience!
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/16/07 02:59:45 PM |
Age 48, OH |
You're absolutely right. Churchianity has done more to break up famililies than put them together. People are in the same building at the same time but that's as close as we get.
It's all well and good for Christians to have clean entertainment, wholesome youth activities, social events for all, but leaders lay a guilt trip on people for not always being involved in every program all the time, then wonder why people seem burnt out.
The church is being run like the government: cradle-to-grave groupthink and conformity. They tell people they are in spiritual danger without the "covering" only The Institution can provide. They tell people to pay their taxes ("tithes and offerings"). They tell people to never question their leaders.
I could go on (and have, in my own blog and site), but it's a huge problem that needs to be faced.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/16/07 02:09:38 PM |
Age 46, FL |
I understand where the author goes with this piece. However, what he says is true with all things involving our children. A great example is education. While there are exceptional teachers within any educational institution, those institutions do not make successful students, parents do. The school plays a very importatnt role in the formation of our children, but the parent must be involved.
And so it is with youth ministry, our children will be Godly if we role model Godly behavior and practices at home, but youth ministry is still a wonderful gift from the church to it's youth. The more time our children spend with children from like minded households, the better.
Any fallability of the youth ministry is the last of my Christian concerns.
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/18/07 04:12:41 PM | | Age 25, KS |
I can tell you from experience that spending time with like minded people got me into more trouble than anything else. I did more with my church friends than with my non-church friends that I shouldn't have done because I figured if other believers had done it, then I could be forgiven for it as well. Take it from someone who is young and not too long ago left the youth group mentality. I have seen more damage done by church kids behaving like the rest of the world than just about anything else. I watched some youth group friends of mine explain to a new Christian that they partied and it wasn't a big deal, and this girl stopped coming to church. Can you blame her? These were Christian kids from Christian families. I'm pretty sure it wasn't just my youth group either taking into consideration all the students leaving the church as they enter college. It's an epidemic, and what we've done for the last decades obviously isn't working.
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 09:53:28 AM | | Age 47, TX |
Most parents are so tied up providing the American Dream that it is easy for them to hand over thier kids to the public schools, the church and after school programs. Someone recently shared with me that they don't even really have to feed their kids during the week. The school does that too. Their kids eat dinner at Youth Group on Sunday. The church is duplicating the segregated method of the schools and kids who are raised in it prefer it. That is the way they go, as the scripture promises.
The two churches we have belonged to both had simular ways. The home school parents , who wanted to participate with their children in ministry were considered over bearing. Public school youth refuse to come to youth programs where adults are present. In both cases these programs ( Bible Studies)get minimal participation from public/ private school students. They count adults/ parents as an intrusion. They prefer to get councel from each other . Some of them attend other Youth programs in near by churches, where entertainment is the goal and dating the driving force.The parents of public/ private school kids in both situations were full in favor of hiring a youth pastor stating that kids needed to have their own time alone. These kids in school spend all the rest of their time without their parents. How much more time do they need?
Youth programs are a major church building device. In our present church the home school kids generally sit with parents in the sanctuary even when they are in college, but the public/ private school kids sit with their peers just like they do in school. Their parents see no qualm in that. These kids won't attend "family small group " with other families.Most times their parents come alone, with an excuse why the children are not attending. The home school kids all come, joining in on the discussions. Hint: One of the sunday school teachers told me they had to dumb down the lessons because only the home school kids really knew the Bible well enough to discuss it.
They go the way they are trained.
Blessings,
Shirley Skidmore
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 02:10:48 AM | | Age 49, TX |
I disagree that the more time children spend with other children from like-minded families the better. Peer dependency is a huge and overlooked problem, certainly in government schools but in the church as well. To say that its beneficial for a child, who has a bent to sinning that is at best in the beginning stages of being put under the Spirit's control, to be put with other children who have a bent to siniing that are at best beginning to be put under the Spirit's control, is a recipe for disaster. Look at the young man "void of understanding" in Proverbs 7. Was he learning wisdom from his parents or family? No...he was "among the youths"!
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/16/07 06:33:45 PM | | Age 44, AR |
"A great example is education."
This is a poor example as it is a failed institution as well.
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- Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/16/07 05:12:55 PM | | Age 41, WI |
I would agree that we need to be careful about letting the Church raise our children. Although it is a huge blessing for those who parents do not exemplify Christ in the home. A lot of these kids may not have the opportunity in their homes for several reasons...break down of the family...So there are pros and cons and as leaders and parents we must be discerning of those that really need discipleship.
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- Re: Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 07:31:38 PM | | Age 61, MD |
As I fall into the over 60 category, I come from the perspective of having seen the pros and cons of youth ministry. I do believe we have to take into consideration those families in our congregations where the children would be shall we say spiritually "at risk;" however, is having a youth ministry the answer? I think not. I don't see youth minisry, per se in scripture. God instituted the family and the church. Families, I believe, should come alongside families, and within that, the Titus 2 principle of the older women coming alongside the younger, and older men coming alongside the younger. Yes, this takes work and commitment, BUT we must approach it by depending upon the Holy Spirit to use us for God's glory and the good of those to whom we are reaching out. Church history has proven that youth ministry on the whole has failed. Shouldn't we allow history to teach us something?! May God have mercy on us!
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