Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 09:00:09 AM |
Age 73, OK |
I so appreciate the words of wisdon from this Godly Woman Candace about submission to your husbands. They are from the True and Living God, and could save a whole generation of young women from disaster if only they would apply them to their lives. The world wants to pressure us into its mold and has done a good job of it. I Thank God for a few Godly Women that are making a difference.
Frances
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Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 08:50:00 AM |
Age 53, IN |
I appreciated your article and the author being one more directly impacted by the material than I am as a Pastor. I do have two observations:
1. The letter writer seemed to be single and contemplating marriage. I would like to impress upon her the necessity of finding a godly man and firmly rejecting all others. Many problems with applying the issue of submission in my counceling ministry result from a godly woamn trying to figure out how to find the faith to submit to a carnal husband. Choose wisely and not out of sensuality on the front end!
2. Another responder objected to the military metaphor. While that can excuse in some minds an autocratic and abusive leadership style, I don't think it is a bad reminder. Ephesians 6 moves directly from household relationships (Eph. 5:22-6:9 - slaves were part of the household) to spiritual warfare. A military model makes sense in that context, but not if this world and its prince have become an irrelevant issue in or for your household. Our homes are military outposts in an ongoing war - we need some organization and structure to wage that war effectively!
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- Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/07/07 08:55:16 AM | | Age 28, TX |
Right there with you, Rev. People usually look at my marriage and marvel. "You're more educated than your husband; you're smarter; you're more eloquent...Why do you let HIM make all the calls?"
Answer: Because my husband is a good man. He may not always do the "best" thing, but he will always do the right thing. That's why I married him--well, other than that he's the handsomest man on Earth. He's the first person outside of Christ I've ever been able to trust completely. I could never have married someone I didn't respect--and everyone can see that I respect him!
The fun part is that, since we've gotten married, he's had a very drastic promotion (from barely a supervisor to a major management figure with lots of responsibility and authority), and he has the respect even of his boss and his rivals--some of whom have no respect for anyone. Wifely submission pays, big-time.
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Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 08:09:41 AM |
Age 56, TX |
Eve was made from the side of man. She was not taken from his head to indicate superiority nor from his foot to indicate inferiority. She was taken from his side to reveal equality. She is on the same level with the man. Woman was made from that area nearest mans heart, thus symbolizing her compatibility with man. She has been made to be his companion mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. The dignity of womanhood was established at Creation because of this closest possible kinship with man.
But, because she was taken from man, the woman is subordinate to the man but not inferior to him. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. (I Corinthians 11:3).
For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. (I Corinthians 11:8, 9).
In these verses Paul makes it clear that man and woman are equal in His eye, but at the same time man does have the responsibility of leading in the home. The fact is that just as the woman came from the man in Creation, man now is born of woman. God states it this way in I Corinthians 11:12: For as the woman was from the man, even so the man also is through the woman; but all things are from God.
Adam expressed clearly the truth concerning womans origin and her likeness to man. Verse 23 reads: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
The Bible is clearwoman is like man and was created by God to be a complement to man. Every man should recognize his wife as a gift from God. Every woman should thank the Lord for the privilege she has of being a woman, created for a purpose in the will and plan of God.
A wife can have an influence for good or evil. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. (I Timothy 2:14). Eve had everything a person could want yet stood there and allowed her mind to dwell on the one thing she did not have until it became an obsession.
If you want things or even your spouse to provide satisfaction you are not only ungrateful, but also headed for trouble. You had better not criticize or dwell on bad traits of your mate, because discontent ends many honeymoons.
Biggest problem is not the sin, it is present in all marriages; the biggest problem is the unresolved conflict. Those conflicts are unresolved for primarily two reasons:
1) Blaming imagine the pain when Adam said the woman you gave me. Dont criticize it hurts.
2) Hiding In I John 8 we are urged to walk in the light, that is, to have an open attitude toward admitting your sinfulness. The key to this passage is that unless you walk in the light you have neither fellowship with God nor man (I John 1:7; I Peter 3).
The answer to all of this is responsibility, and confession. Movies may succeed with the idea that love is never having to say youre sorry, but Ive never known of a marriage to succeed on that premise. Most lovers have to say, Im sorry quite often.
For men there is an increase in anxiety to provide, an agitation and this makes them become less sympathetic to their wifes needs. Sin always brings tension and strife. But it doesnt end there. God always ends His stories with hope (Genesis 3:15).
There are several passages of Scripture where the writer equates love with giving. The most obvious example of that is found in John 3:16 where the Bible states: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son....
The answer is that the man is to offer the sacraficial leadership that Christ did for the church by serving the wife and family(even unto death) and the wife is to be the Consigliere (advisor/family counselor) the one who acts behind the scenes always in the best interests of the family-the trusted one that the husband can always rely on for good advice and counsel.
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Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 07:41:27 AM |
Age 29, TN |
This is so true. I have read the book "Created to be his helpmeet" and it is very good and encouraging. Besides everything else...You can not imagine how wonderful married life can be when you in the relationship with you husband that God set up. I have been married 11 years, have 5 children and love and respect my husband more every day. You newlyweds have no idea how good it can get! It is well worth setting your pride aside and submitting!!!
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Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/05/07 11:49:01 PM |
Age 24, NC |
Candace, a very well-thought article. It is also very appropriate to our society, as the whole idea of being "submissive" has taken on a whole new meaning. My only problem with the artcile had nothing to do with the article itself. You stated, "Even Christ is subject to one higher than himself--God." Now, I understand what you meant, but please be a little bit more careful next time to say that Christ was submissive to the Father, or God the Father. But he could not be submissive to "God" as such, as He was God in the flesh. This is the heart of the Trinitarian doctrine.
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- Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 12:47:15 PM | | Age 80, NC |
Christ was submissive to God The Father.That is all the comment thats needed.
Please don't take my word for it,just read;John 5;30,John6;38,Luke22;42,Mark 14;36 Matthew 26;39,42
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- Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 12:42:33 PM | | Age 80, NC |
Christ was submissive to God The Father.That is all the comment thats needed.
Please don't take my word for it,just read;John 5;30,John6;38,Luke22;42,Mark 14;36 Matthew 26;39,42
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- Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 11:29:30 AM | | Age 51, OH |
I noticed that little slip myself. Thank you for gently reminding Candace of how we must carefully choose and use our words, so that no misunderstanding results.
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- Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 07:25:55 AM | | Age 132, CA |
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
No, you're wrong silly person.
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Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/05/07 08:31:00 PM |
Age 43, MO |
As a man I want to thank you for your comment and guidance to the woman wanting (or possibly not) direction in her marriage relationship. You spoke words filled with wisdom and courage.
Society in the deceitful guise of womans rights and freedom is hurting woman and men thus ultimately delivering them to bondage even further. Gods way is always right and you are very correct when you say it is simple to understand the right way. However submitting to this wisdom means submitting and trusting God with your life and obviously most people have trouble doing this. A God ordained relationship based on his wisdom/word means TRUE LIBERTY FOR EVERYONE ESPECIALLY FOR WOMAN!!!
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Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/05/07 07:46:50 PM |
Age 44, AR |
Candace, thank you for this article. I have read Mrs. Pearl's book and think it is the best book on submission that I have ever read in my soon-to-be 25 years of marriage.
How sad for this woman to be confused. She has believed a lie for so long, that her heart is refusing to hear and apply the truth.
I have read that many young men are delaying marriage past the age of 30. If more women approach marriage like the woman in the article , can you blame the men for wanting to wait? <smile>
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Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/05/07 07:10:48 PM |
Age 40, OH |
Dear Candace,
I think your military metaphor is telling. Are we to conceive of a marriage as part of an aggressive unit? If so, then everything you say makes sense and carries with it an admirable modesty and efficiency. But if we imagine, as we are invited to do by Scripture, that partnership is an offering to God of our own ability to learn and grow, then surely what we wish to offer is our willingness to engage the difficulty of making decisions in a balanced and loving way. Each of us is responsible for bearing in mind - and cherishing - the good of the other. Your cautionary against equality in decision-making is of concern only for those who are incapable of so devoting themselves. In partnerhips we confront the greatest challenges, but it is only by engaging those challenges that we can truly see how, in the words of _The Preacher's Wife_, to "look in wonder at those you love, for you are looking at the face of God."
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- Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 09:17:42 PM | | Age 19, MN |
Actually, I would point out that since one purpose of marriage to bring about godly offspring, and since that there a war of worldviews, the military command structure actually fits. This doesn't mean that a true family must live in boot camps and learn to shoot a bazooka, the structure command of the military was an analogy of to help us understand what it's like in general. Parents are stated to be the primary teachers of a child's heart and mind. So, since the "War of the Mind" is raging (perhaps more fiercely than man's history may have ever known), like I said, the military comparison fits. If I can point something else out, parent's and kids are both human, but obviously the parent's are in charge of the kids. If it was really an equal command structure (to follow the logic to the ends) the kids would have to be able to make rules as well as parents. I can safely say that chaos probably would ensue very quickly if that happened. Anyway, have a great day and God Bless!!
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- Re: Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/07/07 12:03:58 AM | | Age 30, IN |
In your comparison of parents/children to husbands/wives, I would note that children do not have the requisite knowledge, experience, maturity, wisdom, emotional and spiritual discipline, or formed character that sound decision-making (e.g. for a family) requires. And that is why they do not have authority equal to their parents. Notice those are facts about the nature of children - and that those facts are what justify the inequality of power/authority. In the case of soldiers vs. commanding officers, the same is true: those in command have relevantly greater experience, competence, skills, etc. that justify putting them in places of responsibility over other adults. What, in your view, are the relevant facts about those born female that justify the relevant power/authority difference between them and males (when married)? And if those are facts about women - why shouldn't there be a GENERAL power difference, in all matters of life, between men and women? Why restrict it to marriage? Or are there no such facts? If so, then what would justify the difference in power (or at least, what would make the military and parenting analogies analogous?)
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 10/02/07 04:18:12 AM | | Age 48, KY |
The operative word in your post is power, which Christians believe comes from God and only in our weakness, meaning submission to Him and his precepts. Our culture is power-drunk and power-mad, hence the chaos and confusion, the emphasis being on assuming or usurping power, thereby strengthening the position of power. That worldview contradicts Scripture.
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- Well...
| Posted On: 03/07/07 07:56:04 PM | | Age 19, MN |
...ok, I take it back, the comparison doesn't fit as well as I thought it did. The point that I was arguing was not explicitly stated-the above poster said, "Are we to conceive of a marriage as part of an aggressive unit?"-which I was trying to answer. The other point, about the kids having a say was unstated by the poster (which I totally apologize for since I made an erroneous assumption) was that to argue that "Because men and women are both human, both are equal in authority". My point was that that argument falls apart when you throw in the kids together, so again, I totally apologize for answering something that was unstated. Now, from a totally Biblical standpoint, the husband is the head of the household (i.e. final decision maker). However, there is something that needs to be noticed: Husbands are commanded to love their wives. Part of that means that they should listen to them and take things into consideration. I say this, however, as someone who is (A) Young (B) Unmarried and not really even dating. My point was really to answer the military comparison, I got a little carried away without considering what was being totally said. I DO NOT consider women as inferior mentally or anything like that, just fulfilling a different role than a male (not to mention just as glorifying to God). Anyway, have a great day and God Bless!!
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- Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 11:39:54 AM | | Age 44, TX |
Sounds like a cord was struck in you. God's Word is non-negotiable friend. "To obey is BETTER than sacrifice." (1 Sam. 15:22-23) Rebellion is witchcraft. Are you born again? (Jn. 3:3,7) ARE WOMEN INNOCENT VICTIMS?
by Carol Tharp Almy, M.D http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/are_women_innocent_victims_.html
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- Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/06/07 11:17:30 AM | | Age 47, CO |
Be careful about confusing economy and ontology. The scriptures direct us in our varied relationships through the specifics of economy and the value rooted in our ontology. Our submission to one another is an attitude of selflessness that should cloth all we do. Love is always selfless and is never set aside in any relationship, rather it governs our actions and attitudes. Roles stand apart as defining personal responsibilities within the relationships we have.
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- Re: Re: Re: Submissive Is NOT a Four Letter Word
| Posted On: 03/07/07 09:36:56 PM | | Age 35, PA |
That's "clothe."
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