Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/12/07 09:17:58 PM |
Age 19, VA |
I'm increasingly flabbergasted by mr. Noebel's articles--the most notable aspects are the nationalism and the fight against straw man communism.
If you notice, America is always right, always glorified, always god-chosen to prevail in these articles. This is obviously not correct-our nation is as susceptible to mistakes, fallacies, and corruption as any decision-making body.
There is also the constant war against the same idea of communism that was presented in the cold war. It's a dead stereotype that mr. noebel throws around to stir up emotion and make people feel good about the corporate culture that exists in (surprise!) the United States.
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- God is not necessarily pro-USA
| Posted On: 03/13/07 09:32:48 PM | | Age 19, MN |
As I pointed out in a different post, our country should be more worried on being on God's side, since He's always in the right anyway. And America is not always right, but that doesn't mean that it's always wrong either (which is apparently, more or less, the common thread of thought by today's cultural elite). Are there such things are corrupt corporations? Are there such things are corrupt govt. and politicians? Certainly. That proves the point. Just read my post below in response to NC 18 to his/her question on the subject and tell me what you think. Anyway, you have a great day and God Bless!!
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Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/06/07 02:13:17 PM |
Age 18, NC |
Just curious--and please understand that I am pro-democracy in the sense of practicality, but what Biblical evidence supports democracy or socialism? Firstly, I would like to point out that the Bible is very anti-Communist in the forms that have occurred so far throughout history. Soviet Russia, and many of the totalitarian states are just a few examples. But true socialism resides mainly on "equal distrubution of wealth" policy, in which there is no government, but more of a "community" or a "village" approach. The competition is done with foreign nations, and not inside of the nation itself. All "profits" that the socialist companies make are filtered throughout the community and village. Is there Biblical reason to believe that real idealistic socialism is wrong? I don't find anything myself. Why do I also get the feeling that many Christians believe that God is pro-American? Does God care about one country more than another? Does he care about the system of government, as long as Christian values are implemented? I'd love to have some response for this! Thanks!
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- Re: Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/06/07 08:57:16 PM | | Age 19, MN |
The reasons for socialism having problems really comes down to man's nature. From a Christian perspective, man is inherently fallen or evil, so that means that people are likely to be selfish. And, if these people have all the economic power, the will want to keep that power (like Lenin did for example). If man is basically good, then socialism is a viable concept. But since evidence seems to suggest that man is evil (such as wars, murders, rapings, etc.), then man is likely to be selfish. One other problem is that socialism takes all the money and then redistributes it. Now, God owns everything (since He made the world), but He gave us the earth to be stewards of. Now, someone may argue that socialism fulfills that job, but the problem is that the issue here is that someone is taking someone else's money and giving it to someone else. I can help people out with my own money (in fact, a book recently came out that indicated that conservative religious people unquestionably give more money and time to charity than other groups by a large margin), but I obviously can't help someone rob a bank just because they're short on change. One other thing is that the Bible does say that people are to work for their food if they can. Therein lies the problem: People tend to get lazy if they can get easy money. If they are always guarenteed a paycheck no matter what, most people will try to work at a minimal level. So, there are some reasons (I highly recommend that you go to probe.org, which has an article on the subject of the Bible and Economics, which goes into more effective detail on this subject). As far as God being pro-America, I would not necessarily say that "God is on our side"...I would be far more, as Abraham Lincoln said (paraphrase), "I am not worried about which side God is on, since we know that He is always on the right side. My concern is to be on God's side". Our nation was founded on Christian principles (not saying that it was a "Christian nation" in the sense that everyone was Christian or went to church, but that the principles in the Bible were implemented into everyday life), so God did bless us (technological advances, all the freedoms, haven't been taken over by an enemy country, etc.) Of course God blesses countries that implement His principles, but the argument here is that (which I've articulated a little) socialism is unbiblical. Capitalism, though flawed, does fit better with the description (like I said, check out probe.org on this, so they can give you a clearer picture on this). Anyway, you have a great day and God Bless!!
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- Re: Re: Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/07/07 01:58:14 PM | | Age 18, NC |
I was hoping you'd reply to this. I always enjoy hearing from you--an intelligent, Christian person around my age--and I enjoy your insights. I would agree with what you said wholeheartedly. I am pro-democracy for the very reasons you stated: that man is selfish, and something that idealistically started out socialist would quickly turn into totalitarian Communist. I value your opinion that God isn't necessarily in love with America and only America in this world--I get that feeling from so many Christians I talk to, who think that America is supposed to be able to do whatever it wants just because "God loves America." Socialism, from what I gather, idealistically, isn't un-Biblical. There's no form of government (except for the church "government" structure) that is Biblical, and all of man's concepts are flawed. I think democracy works out the best for all of us. As I believe... I don't remember who it was, but someone important said: "Democracy is the worst form of government the world has ever had, except for all the rest."
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- Thank you.
| Posted On: 03/07/07 07:41:44 PM | | Age 19, MN |
I appreciate the complement and I must say it is good to see your posts as well (just so you are aware, there is another MN 19 who puts posts out there as well...unless I've been so absentminded that I've forgotten some of my own posts...which I doubt ;) Anyway, continue to work hard in service for the Lord (as I take this challenge myself) and God Bless!!
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Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/06/07 12:52:56 PM |
Age 57, TX |
Thank you, Dr. Noebel, for stating the case for true evangelicals. After hearing erroneous statements from the NAE for the past couple of years I, too, feel as though our "evangelical" name has been hijacked by the libral left. I can tell you, flatly, their comments and policies do not reflect my beliefs at all. Thank you for your stand against these anti-American lunatics.
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Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/06/07 09:09:03 AM |
Age 38, MN |
I am saddened to the core with how many areas of life now are being pushed left by those desiring socialism. It's in the public and sometimes even private schools, it's in the curricula these schools purchase. It's in the social studies curriculum so deceptively that even if you are aware you don't always catch what the left indoctrination details are. Our youth pastors have no clue their kids are mainly socialist in belief, and it's partly their fault because of the materials they purchase these days. Teachers of all kinds are just lapping up the "tools" given to "improve communication and learning" that are just training to obey THE STATE. I can say that, I am one. Most people, myself included, don't really even know what the definition of socialism and marxism are. That calculated "dumbing down" of generations at a time may be the key for socialism to finally rise and be viable in our society. It may be a sign of the times, but we Christians must push back until our dying day. Thanks, Worldview Weekend!
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Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/06/07 08:36:03 AM |
Age 54, MN |
How long will it take those of us who hold fast to the original meaning of evangelical, to come up with a different word to convey what we truly believe -- all in order to separate us from those who have completely denigrated the term. What a darn shame to see it hijacked like this. Just a thought.
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Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/06/07 01:04:33 AM |
Age 49, MN |
I have a few books of Jim Wallis from my student days. A have a few back issues of Sojourners as well. There was a certain sense radicalism - actually doing things to change the world in nonconforming ways that caught my attention.
Alas, few things crush leftist ideas like life.
I am most saddened by the complete naive adaption of Marxist analysis and solutions. Dr. Noebels does well to hightlight the atrocities that have accompanied the heroes of the so called Christian left. How come Cuba, North Korea and China have border problems... keeping people in and the grand old troublesome oppressive USA can't figure out how to keep people out!
It would be so refreshing for the hollywood left and Christian socialists to actually go set up their communes in a socialist or Islamic state and send back reports.
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Re: National Association of Evangelicals Pro-Communist?
| Posted On: 03/05/07 08:36:58 PM |
Age 31, MN |
Dr. Noebel,
Thank you for making us true young evangelicals aware of the history of the Christian Left. There is nobody out there today telling us the truth about Wallis's past statements and causes. All we hear today is the celebration of Wallis and the Christian Left's agenda. I hope this message gets out to more people.
God bless you.
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