Brother or not?
| Posted On: 02/22/08 09:28:16 AM |
Age 46, ENGLAND |
You may as well say that Campolo is lost and going to an eternity without Christ! That's clearly the implication of this article.
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Here's the truth
| Posted On: 02/21/08 08:37:32 AM |
Age 47, MO |
One would think that Paul of all people would have been a socialist. Here was a guy who was of the elite of his time and became an evangelist. He wore out more Nike's in a week than most Americans buy in a lifetime. Yet, he didn't demand his rights, he worked day and night as an example to us (mimicing Christ who owned everthing, yet gave it all away), as a servant to all. Paul explained this as; "if we don't work, neither shall we eat". Ok, There are fundamental problems with the American capitalistic system without limits, because when this country was founded, we had internal moral limits. Our society was based upon the moral of helping our neighbor and value of human life, but it has been changed into the love of money, greed, and hording. So yes, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but socialism is not the answer. Socialism is the masses ruled by the elite, instead of a democracy, and it is foolish to advocate that. What is needed is a purpose higher than self like what occured in 9-11-01. So as long as America is spoiled, selfish life goes on. But when a major calamity happens, we remember God and our neighbor. John
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Preach the Gospel, stay out of politics!
| Posted On: 02/21/08 02:22:20 AM |
Age 41, ENGLAND |
The "I am of Paul, I am of Apollos" scenario is condemned in scripture. Instead of aligning ourselves with political parties we need to get back to the Bible, Christ, and the cross. Preach the gospel and when I`ve got money to spare give to those less fortunate than myself.
Whether you are a dispesationalist or kingdom orientated, it makes no difference to your personal aims in Christ, does it?
Jesus first recorded words in Marks gospel are these: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."
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Wake up people!
| Posted On: 02/20/08 07:49:45 AM |
Age 52, FL |
You people out there who believe in men like Campola better get your head out of the sand before it is too late! Men like him will side with a Socialist government and start putting anyone who opposes them in jail. If you want to see a socialist, oppressive government look no further than Cuba. Thank God Castro is dying, perhaps the people will long last have freedom. Socialist and Marxists governments don't work, anyone heard of a little thing called the Berlin Wall...it came down thanks to the great Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.
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Tony Campolo, Jim Walllis: The Marxist Delusion and a Christian Evangelist
| Posted On: 02/20/08 05:38:38 AM |
Age 46, SOUTH AFRICA |
Reading some of these comments is disheartening to say the least. Those with sympathetic proclivities towards the libralism and the gross secularism of Campolo and his ilk seem to be filled with deep animosity for conservative Bible-believers. Such is the over riding characteristic of the emerging church and its leaders.
As one who has been a missionary for 14 years in South Africa I can recount many stories of social do-gooding missionaries who spend all their time over here working to change things for the better, but they never give the gospel because they would alineate both the South African government and many of the locals, since the liberals here equate the gospel with apartheid.
One missionary here told me to keep doing what I am doing (preaching and teaching) because very few missionaries are actually preaching God's word anymore. As I remember The Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20 it says to go into all the world and make disciples. You can't do that without teaching and preaching the word. Campolo and company have abandoned The Great Commission and replaced with fallow seeds of radical activism which can never save.
For all the self-righteous emergents who bloviate about helping the poor, I can testify first hand that after all the time, money, and effort sincere, but misled missionaries have invested in social change here in South Africa, things are actually gotten worse than before they began. When are we going to learn that God uses the foolish things to confound the wise?!
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social christians
| Posted On: 02/19/08 10:15:48 PM |
Age 42, FL |
I'd say that the main difference between these Christians- Campolo and others- is that conservative Christians tend to look towards ourselves to aid the poor- teaching them, showing them how to help themselves along with teaching the Gospel. Many of the emergent leaders, look to others to give to the poor period. Someone made the point that studies have shown that conservative Christians give more to charitable causes than their more liberal counterparts, but it's not just about the amount given. It is the fact that we give from our hearts- whether money (and in many cases, we give even when we don't have much to give), or in time spent being with the poor. It is not the government's job to take our money and give it to others- what the Lord cares most about is our hearts. It doesn't show much when you give what's not yours to give in the first place. Well meaning as men like Tony Campolo are in wanting to help the poor- is much the same as so many in the liberal government who have good intenetions- but that will never solve the world's problems. Only Jesus can make things truely right in this world. Sure we can show the love of Christ by loving others,but that includes telling them of His love shown on the Cross. Christian business people can help by being fair to their employees- but that again,is not the government's job. You can give a million dollars to a poor person,but within a year they will be poor again- because they aren't shown and taught how to manage it, how to tithe it, how to invest it etc. Government giving teaches nothing- might as well just flush all the money (look at how so many of the recipiants of cash money meant for rent and food after Katrina was spent!) Christian charities there out gave the government and poured more tangible needs to the poor than the government can ever do. Many people are offended that Christian charities also preach the Gospel (even some liberal christians, because they see us as inclusive and offensive) yet, when you see the absolute hopelessness of victims such as those from the Tsunami a few years ago- those who lost children, and children who lost parents had no hope for something better, and no hope for ever seeing their loved ones again. To them it was just allah's will, or well, maybe allah was mad at us, or karma was against us. I'd rather give people hope for something so much better- along with a way for them to have a little better now. We'll never accomplish God's Kingdom on earth- call me naive, but isn't that why we pray the Lord's prayer- for His Will to be done on earth as it is in heaven- not our will?
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Re: Tony Campolo: The Marxist Delusion and a Christian Evangelist
| Posted On: 04/10/07 01:07:10 AM |
Age 39, AL |
Your conflation of being in favor of helping the least among us as Jesus instructs us to do with being a communist is simply ridiculous. FDR, the greatest of all American presidents IMHO was certainly no communist, but he also understood that results of laizzez faire economics (aka social Darwinism) could be just as pernicious as communism. We need labor laws that protect the health, safety, and welfare of workers. We need a higher minimum wage that allows everyone who works in our rich society to at least be able to make ends meet so that their children don't have to go to bed hungry. We need environmental laws that protect God's beautiful creation while ensuring that corporations don't poison our children in order to make a little bit of a higher profit for their shareholders. We also need a safety net for those who have fallen on hard times and those who can not help themselves. Advocating for these things does not make me a communist!
The vast majority of progressives in this country aren't advocating that all private property be confescated. Most progressives in this country are trying to prevent the destruction of what made this nation great, it's large middle class. Unfortunately, as corporations continue to obtain more legal rights and average folks continue to lose legal rights, the CEO's and major shareholders (i.e. those who own a large stake in the corporation and know when the stock is about to tank so that they can bail out like Ken Lay, Martha Stewart, ect.)are making out like bandits while the rest of us are dealing with stagnant wages and an ever increasing cost of living. There is nothing communistic about requiring employers to treat their employees fairly and to refrain from passing their costs of doing business (by polluting or by not paying for employee health insurance and relying the government to do so) to the taxpayer.
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- re
| Posted On: 02/21/08 09:33:57 PM | | Age 31, IA |
If I asked you a question, would you answer?
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- Article critics are blind to leftist fallacies and failures
| Posted On: 02/19/08 10:17:15 PM | | Age 43, AUSTRALIA |
FDR the greatest of all presidents? Read "FDR's Folly" by Jim Powell: while other recessions were over in a year or two, FDR's constant interference in the economy prolongued the depression for years. His constant rule changing made businesses reluctant to reinvest, so jobs disappeared. And there were horrifying cases where FDR's goons destroyed crops to keep prices high, while people were starving.
And this correspondent doesn't realise that the real minimum wage is ZERO. When government decrees that people are not allowed to work below a certain arbitray figure, then they simply won't be employed if their productivity is not worth as much as the wage. So they lose out on valuable work experience that would help them become more productive and able to justify higher wages. Because of these laws, teenagers can't work as gas service station attendants (which are now "self-service") or theatre ushers (right, patrons really love stumbling in the dark).
Leftists are just blind to the fact that capitalist countries are the most prosperous and free. Why was the Berlin wall built? To stop people escaping into the Communist East? Where are the Americans fleeing into Cuba?
And the poor are getting richer too: now most poor people can afford a car, DVD player, colour TV, microwave -- real wealth unimaginable only a few decades ago. And it is thanks to capitalist profit-driven innovations that many goods are available to so many. Indeed, capitalist businessmen can get rich only if they supply what many people want at a price that they can afford.
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Re: Tony Campolo: The Marxist Delusion and a Christian Evangelist
| Posted On: 03/04/07 10:43:15 PM |
Age 55, FL |
We do need to do something about the poor and the oppressed. We need to do what the Bible says to do James 2:14-14 tWhat does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 uIf a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and vone of you says to them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Jas 2:14). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Isaiah 58:6-10 6 Is this not the fast that I have chosen:
To hloose the bonds of wickedness,
iTo undo the 3heavy burdens,
jTo let the oppressed go free,
And that you break every yoke?
7 Is it not kto share your bread with the hungry,
And that you bring to your house the poor who are 4cast out;
lWhen you see the naked, that you cover him,
And not hide yourself from myour own flesh?
8 nThen your light shall break forth like the morning,
Your healing shall spring forth speedily,
And your righteousness shall go before you;
oThe glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
9 Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer;
You shall cry, and He will say, Here I am.
If you take away the yoke from your midst,
The 5pointing of the finger, and pspeaking wickedness,
10 If you extend your soul to the hungry
And satisfy the afflicted soul,
Then your light shall dawn in the darkness,
And your 6darkness shall be as the noonday.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Is 58:6). Nashville: Thomas Nelson. Yes we are to preach the Gospel but we also have to help those who are in need. We are a blessed nation but we are too busy pointing fingers. If you want to point fingers, how about Sky Angel, a Christian Satellite Station that brag how christian they are and yet they allow wicked things to be shown such as cursing, GOD'S NAME in vain, a show that designs according to the Zodiac, an abomination to GOD, and paranormal programs. Though I and others have complained about it they do nothing about it because of lukewarm christans that like these programs. Take action with them before you start criticising Christians that want to take action to help the poor and the oppressed. We also want to tell the unsaved how to live and yet the majority of us don't want to be loving examples to them. They need to be reached and we need to share and show the Gospel of YESHUA HAMASHIAC.
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Re: Tony Campolo: The Marxist Delusion and a Christian Evangelist
| Posted On: 03/04/07 06:28:39 PM |
Age 31, MA |
Saddening. Disgusting. Uninformed. Unbiblical. Myopic. This article does nothing other than simply exhibit the all-to-familiar demonization and mystification that parades as editorializing in carnaval of fundementalist America. A consistent application of this guys argument stigmatizes the early church itself. Here is a couple of facts for all us good godly Americans to chew on:
1) there is a long tradition of critism of Stalinism and orthodox Marxism within the socialist tradition itself.
2) Socialist see their ideas as an extension of, and a practice, of democracy. Social democracy is an entirely other animal than Stalinism, or any other dictatorial regime (include G.W. Bush and the Corperatocracy called the USA).
3) The state capitalism we currently function under is as imperialist and violent as Soviet Marxism to those in the third world. I challenge you to read the dissent, read independent media, get a global perspective!
Thank God for people like Wallis, Sider, and Campollo, who actually take the gospel seriously. This guy is demonizing people who are trying to live the faith, instead of shouting slogans in those incestuous slums that used to be called church.
The rhetorical strategy this guy employs associating socially minded Evangelicals with Mein Kampf, and other obvious non-sense is despicable, not scholarly or fair and generally uninformed about the actual content of Campolloss beliefs, let alone the Nazis. If he were, he would probably find the current Constantian imperial theocracy is far closer to fascism than left Evangelicalism thats concerned with the poor. Go read your Bible! The measure of true religion: that you attend the widow and orphans. Hypocrites! You espouse a form of godliness but deny its power. Repent!
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- Re: Re: Tony Campolo: The Marxist Delusion and a Christian Evangelist
| Posted On: 04/11/07 01:01:27 PM | | Age 26, NJ |
I haven't read Campolo's book, but I find most of Dr. Noebel's to be woefully misguided, if not misleading. I've just looked up Acts 5:1-4, which he cites as supporting private property. Are we reading the same passage? Peter chastises the guy for being greedy and deceitful in holding back a portion of his property. Noebel's dismissive "as if Marx and Marxists ever really cared about the poor and oppressed" is both offensive and ludicrous. Marx literally risked his life helping the oppressed workers in the 1848 revolutions. Engels spent an awful lot of time researching and writing a book documenting the horrid living and working conditions of the English working class, but I guess, to Noebel, that doesn't count as caring. I don't claim that any ideology "owns" Jesus Christ or that we lend uncritical support (or, in some cases, any) support to any and every leftist regime. Nevertheless, I'm proud to be a Christian Marxist. Noebel is himself claiming, in essence, that the right-wing evangelicals "own" Christ and Christianity. Fortunately, he and his ilk don't have the power to stop us.
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- re
| Posted On: 02/23/08 08:32:58 PM | | Age 31, IA |
If I asked you a question, would you answer?
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- Pointers...
| Posted On: 03/05/07 09:26:29 PM | | Age 19, MN |
Um, Dr. Noebel is not against helping the poor, the downtrodden, etc. That is why Christians are to be be willing to share and help (note that this is not the GOVERNMENT, but the church and the individuals helping out) Dr. Noebel did define capitalism (look towards the bottom of the article). Incidentally, a recent book came out that stated basically that the religious (Christian) people (particularily the 'conservative' part) give more money to the poor by an large factor compared to so-called "irreligious" people. The is despite the fact that the religious people make less money on average than their counterparts. The other problem with Campolo (not really addressed in this article) is his promotion of "Open-Theism"; which basically denies that God is all-powerful, all-knowing etc. Please understand that socialism (govt. controlling the economy and redistributing wealth) is not the same thing as charity/sharing. Charity/sharing is something that is done voluntarily, socialism is not done voluntarily. If the church is helping the poor, that's great, because in addition to physical needs, spiritual needs can also be provided. The govt. cannot supply this. Anyway, have a great day and God Bless!!
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Re: Tony Campolo: The Marxist Delusion and a Christian Evangelist
| Posted On: 03/02/07 09:48:12 PM |
Age 47, CA |
Excellent article but also heartbreaking. How many people will be lead astray from the pure and peaceable Word of God by Campolo and others like him?
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