Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 05:18:32 PM |
Age 62, UT |
Jill's article is correct. My husband and I are former Mormons. When we were young, we both served a mission for the LDS church, and after that served in various leadership positions in the Mormon Church. I was a full time translator and interpreter for the LDS church for over 14 years. We are now devout Christians with a ministry to Mormons. The Mormon Church is a counterfeit Christian cult. Mormonism gains 200-300 thousand converts from Christianity annually, because many Christians do not know the Bible well enough to detect false doctrines. Our website: www.hismin.com
Respectfully, Rauni Higley
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 04/13/07 09:42:42 PM | | Age 43, MO |
Rauni,
Thank you for your ministry! My husband and I met you and Dennis in KC a few weeks ago. Your encouragement to reach out to Mormons as lost souls was very encouraging. We just spent the evening witnessing to 3 Mormon missionaries. One of them asked me why I would say something so rude as to say they were not Christians. I told them it was because I was concerned for their eternal souls. It was hard, Rauni, but you and Dennis were a great encouragement to me with your passionate love for these lost souls. We won't know this side of heaven if the seeds took...but thanks for your witness of the Jesus of the Bible!
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/21/07 01:56:56 PM | | Age 26, NA |
Ok, lets get this straight. I am a Mormon and I believe in Jesus Christ. I have read your article some of it is false, the rest is unfortunately very badly interpreted. I can see that you have only read what other people have said about our religion without actually learning about it yourself. I suggest you do this before writing things which you unfortunately appear to misunderstand. The fact is that I am a Mormon, I am very happy, I have a good life, and I love my God & my Saviour Jesus Christ. What's more my religion has helped me to be a better person and I can tell you that Mormons are good people (obviously there are exceptions). I don't think its very Christ-like going around trying to take people away from their religions, especially when they encourage us to be better people. My religion may not impress you in the way you expect but I need to tell you that you're missing out a lot of great doctrine. If you study the details of our pre-mortal existence as seen in the book of Abraham then you will come to understand a little more about why we are here. If you look at the word of wisdom you will see that Joseph Smith taught about not smoking and drinking in order to be healthy (which has only during the past 20 years been scientifically proven). The fact is that I know God lives and that Jesus Christ is my Saviour, and if you came to our church you would see that everything is centered around these facts. Please be more considerate when writing about other peoples religions. If the Lord truly is merciful then i'm sure there are worse things to be than a 'mormon'.
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- Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 10:31:26 AM | | Age 99, MN |
Rauni,
Thank you so much for posting; it's wondeful to hear from you. I praise God that you and others here have come to know the Jesus of the Bible. If you would be open to me posting your comments in my blog, you can reach me at jill@waltermartin.com.
God bless you and your family,
Jill Martin Rische
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Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 05:16:21 PM |
Age 36, MI |
The statement by the media "that Christians know very little about Mormonism" is obviously true, otherwise the number that are uncomfortable with Mormonism would not be 45% but much, much higher.
As a certified Cult Evangelist (certified by the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board) and now applying to study for my PhD in religion, I have had a lot of opportunity to study Mormonism and many other cults. The sad thing is that, while what Jill mentions are true, the things she mentions are not the most dangerous aspects of modern Mormon theology, they are just the most shocking and easiest to explain.
From issues such as the Adam-God doctrine to issues surrounding blood atonement (for yourself), the Mormon church is full of danger. see http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/blood.htm [I know, someone is going to say that the Mormons don't practice blood atonement anymore and that only the strange offshoots do...in reality the main LDS authority does support the practice, but in a "spiritualized" form--in Mormon theology, the only way to be guaranteed a spot in hell (no matter how bad you are) and not be given another chance at salvation after death is to be an apostate (also called Jack) Mormon.]
It really makes me quite sad to hear that only 45% of Evangelicals view Mormonism negatively...the real number should be 100%.
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Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 03:47:49 PM |
Age 59, KS |
Where do I begin. Shouldn't we "good Christians" simply spend our time working at being "better Christians" instead of throwing mud at others? Yep, I think we should. To slam other religions, for me anyway, takes away time I like to reflect on God and His great Love for His creation.
Hmmmm....did He create Mormon's?
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/02/07 04:07:24 PM | | Age 40, MI |
I don't believe that there is any such thing as a "good Christian" or a "better Christian." You are either a Christian, by repenting, believing, and receiving Jesus as Lord of your life, and then living by the principles in His Word or you are not a Christian, if you reject who Jesus is and refuse to let Him be in control of your life.
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 08:39:59 PM | | Age 28, TX |
So, no "slamming" other people who express false beliefs, huh?
I suppose Jesus should have left the Pharisees alone, too, and spent His time becoming a better Savior, yes?
Or perhaps Paul shouldn't have bothered writing the Epistles to the Corinthians, seeing as how they at least had SOME of the truth.
No? Then apparently, the WHOLE Truth is pretty darn important. Perhaps YOU ought to be a little LESS self-centered and a little more loving toward your Mormon neighbors. Monasticism does not spread the Gospel.
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 10:22:17 AM | | Age 55, VA |
God did NOT create the Mormons,Satan did as a confusing counterfeit to the TRUTH which is in Christ Jesus ALONE.The more we get to know Christ,the more He reveals more of Himself to us.He tells us great and mighty things that previously we did not know.However,what he reveals to us as TRUTH,
it is CONFIRMED in scripture and does NOT contradict HIS WORD!Remember the Holy Spirit
of the Father is sent to us as TRUE believers to SEAL us in Christ.THAT's the born again experience.That's the "trinity"
working together to confirm in us the TRUTH.
Mormons have no idea of what the BORN AGAIN
experience truly is.There's the RED FLAG !!!CP.
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 07:24:47 AM | | Age 58, OH |
No, God did NOT create Mormons; He created people and they CHOSE to be Mormons on their own. I don't agree that Jill's article is mud-slinging; it's informative to true Christians who may not have all the facts about Mormonism. I love when Mormons come to my door so I can show them compassion and have lengthy discussions with them about the Jesus I know. They have so much zeal when they visit folks, but what a shame that they bring a message of "save yourself" instead of the message of THE Savior. Keep educating Christians Jill.
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 08:50:46 PM | | Age 25, IN |
This is not mud-slinging, simply a stating of facts with the sources to prove it.
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Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 03:10:04 PM |
Age 56, FL |
Thank you so much for this illuminating article on what Mormons believe and teach.
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Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 09:15:48 AM |
Age 49, IL |
I am a Christian that was amazed at the info shared. I also agree, in this day of urban legends and internet hoaxes that additional corroboration would be most beneficial. Thanks for your efforts. Keep up the good work!!!
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Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/27/07 09:59:29 PM |
Age 28, KY |
I am a whole hearted Christian and know that Mormonism is not Christianity and not acceptable as far as doctrine goes, but I wonder if some of these things that you have listed are really true of the mainstream Mormon religion. If I'm not mistaken it is growing very fast in the New England area.
The reason I'm asking is because people can take "Christian" concepts from people who claim to be orthodox and they be completely ridiculous. Some of these facts are so out there that I can't believe that those are actually taught and that people believe it. Some of it kind of reminds me of Scientology.
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 08:48:52 PM | | Age 60, AR |
It is absolutely amazing what people will believe. Most Mormons come across as good, moral, regular family loving people, to those who haven't studied their religion. Such study will show you the skeletons in their closets, if the Holy Spirit is with you. They have a brainwashing and peer pressure system that is very, very efficient. See my other comments here for a good list of resources that will take you beneath the surface for a reality check. "(...the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righeousness and truth:) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Eph 5:9-12...Thus saith the Lord.
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 11:02:34 AM | | Age 42, IL |
Your kidding.... You state "but I wonder if some of these things that you have listed are really true of the mainstream Mormon religion"
It's Mormon...do a study on Mormonism using just the information Jill posted or better yet grab a great book that Jill is familiar with "Kingdom of the cults" by Walter Martin. I am not angry with the poster but would caution many in Christendom to be careful of those comments. This is what is happening within the church as a whole, we will bend our definition of what is truth because surely not all believe what church x,y or Z teaches....even though they are full card carrying members of it. Do I believe some in the Mormon church are deceived...yes I do...but that does not make them Christian, that makes them unsaved, lost sinners that need Christ of the bible not the false god of the BOM (Book of ormon). Let us never have the attitude/spirit of "surely not all believe that" If they don't believe what the Mormon church teaches...great..then leave the Mormon church, those that sit in there (Mormon Church) blindly not knowing what the church teaches are just as lost and blind as those that know what they teach. I go door to door in my community each week with the Gospel of Christ and I cannot even begin to relate to you how many dealings I have had with the Mormons, I love them and pray for them to be saved, but I do not look upon them as confused Christians, we should point out false teaching. To the original poster this is not an attack to you, but a reproof to all to never compromise truth for the sake of anything.
2 Timothy 4:2
In Christ
Rick
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- Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 09:44:52 AM | | Age 99, MN |
These facts are taken directly from Mormon Scriptures and comments made by highly respected Mormon leaders. This is Mormon truth--taught and believed by mainstream Mormons.
Jill Martin Rische
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- Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 09:01:16 PM | | Age 60, AR |
Yes, Jill, everything you said is straight from Mormon "scripture". You did good. Given the amazing abundance of valid infomration available on the subject, online and off, anyone who'd argue with you is obviously arguing from a position of ignorance. For those few who will objectively accept the truth, it is there in spades on this subject.
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- Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 04:39:17 PM | | Age 37, MS |
Could someone point me in the right direction to information for my teenage son. He is dating a girl of the Mormon religion (we are Baptist) and although we have been round and round that Mormon beliefs are skewed I can't seem to convince him. I need some help. He says "if you would just come and listen" and to me this has cult written all over it. He was raised knowing the Holy Bible. He has accepted Christ as his Saviour and been Baptized. But of course I don't know anything and I really need some help.
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 02:40:56 PM | | Age 42, IL |
As an 18 year old I got involved with a Mormon young man. I too came from a strong Baptist family and had professed the Lord as my Savior. I just wanted you to know that the emotional so outwieghs the factual which is why the Lord tells us not to date them in the first place. I just wanted to encourage you to pray for them and to not be afraid to confront the Mormon young lady with the facts about Mormonism. She will admit that there are definite holes. Also, her family most likely is working very hard at converting your son to Mormonism. I remember my brother's and sister's questioning my salvation which hurt me at the time. Later, I realized that those who confronted were those who truly loved.... Loved me and truth more than their own reputation or feelings of acceptance. I go to these people now for advice because I know when I was deceived they were not afraid to risk my own opinion of them in order to get me out of a relationship that could have ruined my life.
BTW I still have my old Mormon friend and his wife on my prayer list. Hopefully someday He and his family will know the truth and be saved.
Susan McCurdy
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 10:45:10 PM | | Age 99, MN |
The best thing to do for your son is to take him to Jesus. Talk to him about the difference between the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Mormons.
Try to listen to my father's tape/CD "The Jesus of the Mormons" before you talk to him (waltermartin.com). Email me and we will put it in our free Listening Library for you. You can reach me at jill@waltermartin.com.
And remember . . . prayer changes things.
Jill Martin Rische
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 08:37:51 PM | | Age 60, AR |
The person whose son is dating a Mormon should consult the book Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Matin, google Mormon Religion, visit http://www.irr.org, Read The Godmakers by Dave Hunt & Ed Decker and by all means find and watch Ed Decker's video "The Godmakers". Decker was a mormon for 19 years. Read the Book of Mormon. The Holy Spirit will show you how it is basically a refutation of the Bible. Same with the Koran. Read in both those books and you'll learn that the Bible's teaching of inspiration is also counterfeited by Satan. My conclusion is that the Koran and Book of Mormon have the same spirit author.
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 08:25:41 PM | | Age 44, AR |
For mormon information, go to http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm
Buy Kirk Cameron's DVD "Soundly Save" with Ray Comfort's "How to Bring Children to Christ and Keep Them There" (same dvd--on this website).
You didn't say how old your son is, but find a way to discuss other cults to make him aware of them. Many parents do their children a disservice by not exposing and discussing the main points of the many cults on this earth.
Plus tell your son that a believer should not marry an unbeliever (2 Cor.6:14).....mormonism *is* a cult of unbelievers--no one can embrace this lie and believe in Christ Jesus at the same time!! Love blinds couples to this key point in a marriage until children are born and that's where the fight comes in...whose "church" will win out? Or will a divorce follow....a good percentage will divorce over issues such as this.
I also recommend Brannon Howse's book "Put Your Beliefs to the Test" to find out how grounded your son really is in the Word of God.
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- Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 07:12:39 PM | | Age 67, MT |
I'm Mormon. What would you like to know?
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- Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 02/28/07 11:31:46 PM | | Age 41, CA |
Wow, amazing all the garbage I bothered to wade through to get to the bottom of the page! I am LDS and have been for 24 yrs. I served a full-time mission when I turned 21. The stuff I found in this article & the responses is soooo typical anti-Mormon and largely inaccurate. Can't say I'm surprised by any of it though. I'm not going to waste time addressing most of it, but I will say this: I AM Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, the Divine Redeemer. He was born of Mary, ministered to people, healed them, was crucified and died for our sins and resurrected on the 3rd day. He is the same Jesus other Christian denominations believe in. At least I can give ya'll that much, most of you won't acknowledge anything about us.
If you want to really know anything about us, I would direct you to Mormon.org. Forget the anti sites, that's a pointless waste of time, as all it feeds anybody is garbage. I'm with the person who said that people should spend more time building up their own faith rather than tearing others down.
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- Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/13/07 07:29:05 PM | | Age 28, MD |
In doing research on the mormon religion recently I *did* check out the website. It fails to mention many of their beliefs that Christians know are unscriptural. If it is what your religion teaches and is the truth, why hide it?
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- Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/05/07 12:31:09 PM | | Age 99, MN |
You call your own Scriptures "inaccurate."
Jill Martin Rische
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- Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/02/07 06:06:38 PM | | Age 44, AR |
To CA, 41
You say you are a Christian *and* a Mormon. Do your beliefs ascribe to the doctrines of any of the churches tracing themselves directly to the Apostles?
If so, you must believe in these Christian beliefs:
*Jesus is divine and part of the Godhead.
*He is the Messiah promised in the Old Testament.
*The world was created by him.
*He is the "Only Begotten Son" of God.
*He died to atone for the sins of mankind.
*He was prepared from the beginning of the world for his mission of atonement.
*He was bodily resurrected from the dead.
*By his resurrection he conquered death so that all mankind will be resurrected.
*He was perfect and sinless.
*He founded the true church.
*Only believers in him will be saved.
*He will someday return to earth and usher in a period of peace lasting a thousand years, during which he will rule as king.
Do you accept the beliefs above?
Back as late as the 50's 60's, Mormons didn't call themselves "Christian" they were proud to be called Mormons not Christian, but only in the last decade have Mormons started calling themselves "Christian". The reason I understand it, so that they don't stand out like they used to, but now fit into the mainstream. If you're a Mormon, call yourself a Mormon, but you can't be both in the true understanding of Mormonism and Christianity.
Have you followed the Mormon belief from the beginning or did you come out of a mainline church such as Methodist, Lutheran, or Baptist and then joined the Mormon Church?
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/03/07 01:29:32 AM | | Age 41, CA |
To 44, AR, you ask if I believe the following: "*Jesus is divine and part of the Godhead. *He is the Messiah promised in the Old Testament. *The world was created by him. *He is the "Only Begotten Son" of God. *He died to atone for the sins of mankind. *He was prepared from the beginning of the world for his mission of atonement. *He was bodily resurrected from the dead. *By his resurrection he conquered death so that all mankind will be resurrected. *He was perfect and sinless. *He founded the true church. *Only believers in him will be saved. *He will someday return to earth and usher in a period of peace lasting a thousand years, during which he will rule as king. Do you accept the beliefs above?"
My answer is absolutely YES!!! Mormons DO believe all those things!
As to your question if I came from a different denomination originally, yes, I grew up Presbyterian, but I converted and joined the LDS when I was 18.
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- Pardon...
| Posted On: 03/03/07 07:43:51 PM | | Age 19, MN |
...who is Jesus, according to the Mormon church? Do you believe in one God and that there is no other (not even one in the remotest part of the universe)? What is the Trinity (to the best of your description)? Don't spare the detail on your answers, because I want to truly know (from a Mormon) what you believe. Thanks!!!
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- Re: Pardon...
| Posted On: 03/13/07 07:41:38 PM | | Age 28, MD |
Yes...I would like to hear the answer to this as well.
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- Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 03:02:19 PM | | Age 40, CA |
Amen to building others up rather than tearing others down. That reminds me of some favorite remarks of Wilford Woodruff, 4th President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
"When you go into a neighborhood to preach the Gospel, never attempt to tear down a mans house, so to speak, before you build him a better one; never, in fact, attack any ones religion, wherever you go. Be willing to let every man enjoy his own religion. It is his right to do that. If he does not accept your testimony with regard to the Gospel of Christ, that is his affair, and not yours. Do not spend your time in pulling down other sects and parties. We havent time to do that. It is never right to do that." (Contributor, August 1895, 63637.)
"Seek by faith, prayer and humility, to obtain wisdom, and the Spirit of God to dictate in all your labours. Wisdom is one of the greatest gifts of God, and the voice of wisdom will not tell us to spend our time in warring against the sects of the day, opposing the opinions of men, ridiculing the religions that surround us, thereby cutting off the ears of the hearer; barring the hearts of men against light and truth; the opinions and religions of other men are as dear unto them as ours are unto us. Let Salvation be your text, in meekness and humility, with the power of eternal truth, wisdom, light and knowledge that are hid in the first principles of the gospel of the Son of God. You can be instrumental in saving the souls of men, and they will rejoice with yourselves that they have ever beheld the light thereof; we should never get above the gospel, or leave it to preach something that is foreign to our calling; or to make strife about words to no profit; every tree is known by its fruit; if we are faithful before the Lord, pursue a wise and prudent course, good fruit will be sure to follow our labours." (To the Officers and Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the British Islands, Millennial Star, February 1845, 14142.)
(Source: http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Curriculum/mpandrs.htm/wilford%20woodruff.htm/chapter%209%20proclaiming%20the%20gospel.htm?f=templates$fn=document-frame.htm$3.0#JD_36315009 )
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- Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 11:31:09 AM | | Age 38, MI |
Ok so inform us do you believe the things that are stated?
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- Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 08:09:41 AM | | Age 51, OK |
In your comment, you mentioned the fact that we should not refer to anti-Mormon websites or information in forming an opinion on the Mormon church. However, in the article that was written, the author quoted from the Book of Mormon and from the Pearl of Great Price, as well as leaders in the Mormon church. This does not sound like anti-Mormon material to me.
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- Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 08:06:58 AM | | Age 51, OK |
In your comment, you mentioned the fact that we should not refer to anti-Mormon websites or information in forming an opinion on the Mormon church. However, in the article that was written, the author quoted from the Book of Mormon and from the Pearl of Great Price, as well as leaders in the Mormon church. This does not sound like anti-Mormon material to me.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 02:51:04 PM | | Age 40, CA |
Quoting from official sources is meaningless when they are intentionally stripped of context and manipulated to mislead people. I consider it a form of bearing false witness.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/13/07 07:52:48 PM | | Age 28, MD |
You wrote:
"Quoting from official sources is meaningless when they are intentionally stripped of context and manipulated to mislead people. I consider it a form of bearing false witness."
Please tell us how the author has "intentionally stripped context and manipulated to mislead people." If what she said is wrong, don't just cry wolf! You offered no correction...here is your chance! We're eager to hear what you have to say...
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- Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/05/07 12:33:49 PM | | Age 99, MN |
Prove that any of these 10 facts of Mormonism are false. Jill Martin Rische
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 01:25:35 PM | | Age 41, CA |
No, of course The Pearl of Great Price is not anti-Mormon. I was referring to things that other readers were recommending such as "Kingdom of the Cults", "Godmakers" and "Jesus of the Mormons" as being anti, when I said not to go to those sources for true information. My apologies if I was confusing anyone. Look at it this way, if you will: if you want to learn information on what any church believes, do you go to a site with an ax to grind against them, or do you go to the site by that church itself to learn what they believe? Chances are, if you go to a site that has something against it, they won't be worrying too much about the accuracy of their info, and that's no way to honestly assess people's beliefs.
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- Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 05:44:14 AM | | Age 45, OH |
If you are a Mormon as you say, have you not read in the Bible, the only true infallible Word of God, where it says anyone who adds to this book, I will add to him the plagues written in this book, and anyone who takes away from this book, I will take away his part in Heaven?
Do you know what happened to Joseph Smith?
He was not a Martyr as is commonly taught in Mormonism. You can check this out. He was shot while escaping prison. Jesus was no criminal and he did not ask His followers to be criminals.
I have Mormon LDS friends that I have debated on religion, and they are all very decent people. If Sincerity would get you to Heaven they would all be there, but it does not. They also went on Missions, one to Bolivia and he nearly died of disentary, and others went to Holland and other parts of Europe. What defines a person as a Christian is not works. Works will not get you or me into Heaven. Works are simply the evidence of your faith. We are saved by faith in Jesus, not by works.
I am not bashing Mormons, like I said I have Mormon friends and I pray for them to find the truth.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 02:59:17 PM | | Age 40, CA |
OK, I'll bite. Where is the Bible verse which formally proclaims it to be "the only true infallible Word of God." I've read the book from Genesis to Revelation and never found this declaration. Maybe you have a special translation or something.
As for adding to the book and inflicting plagues upon people, do you have even the remotest clue what John was talking about? He wasn't talking about the Bible as we know it today, because it didn't even EXIST in his time. The book of Revelation wasn't even necessarily INCLUDED in the official canon throughout all periods of time and throughout all of Christendom. All John could possibly have been talking about was his own writing, the book of Revelation itself, which may not have even be the most recently written New Testament book.
As for Joseph Smith's assassination, most wouldbe escapees would find a more opportune moment to flee prison than when the place is surrounded by an angry armed mob with painted faces, wouldn't you agree? It's not as if Joseph attempted to slip out under cover of darkness and was thwarted by an alert guard. You are truly a piece of work.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 08:55:03 PM | | Age 28, TX |
How about coming at it from a different angle, neighbor? Try this:
Do you believe that the Bible is inspired?
Is God likely to contradict Himself?
What did He say (Holy Spirit through Paul) about people who preach a Gospel contrary to that preached by the Apostles? Gal. 1:8
Every manuscript available in the original Greek confirms the traditional Christian faith--not the Mormon version. I hate to tell you this, but Joseph Smith never did produce the documents from which he "translated" his version of the Bible--so we can't really consider HIS version. We can only go on what we have. (And as for any accusation of tampering by the Roman "church," why on Earth would they permit passages about bishops and deacons being married to remain in Scripture, or salvation by faith alone?)
I think you've been suckered. I say this with love and not cruelty.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/01/07 11:32:12 PM | | Age 40, CA |
And with love, and not cruelty, I maintain that you are holding the Bible to a standard which it does not itself proclaim. You believe things about the Bible which it does not teach, and then expect all other Christians to conform to your extra-biblical proclamations as if they are actually canon. Let me ask you this: If the Bible warns against false prophets, then there must obviously be the potential for true ones. Otherwise the Bible could simply warn against ANYONE claiming to be a prophet, because there can never again be any. But the Bible never says that.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/13/07 08:17:10 PM | | Age 28, MD |
The writers of the New Testament *did* have the complete Old Testament canon to draw from. There is nothing in the New Testament that contradicts the Old Testament (because it was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit.) There are numerous things in the book of mormon that contradict both the Old and New Testaments.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/13/07 08:07:14 PM | | Age 28, MD |
"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you."-Deuteronomy 13:1-5
...and Joseph Smith's prophecies didn't even come true!
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/02/07 05:53:04 PM | | Age 29, TX |
Just want to throw this in here - A great book to read that doesn't have an agenda, other than to respectfully have a dialogue between Evangelicals, and Mormons - is the book "How Wide The Divide" by Robinson and Bloomberg (I think)
The good thing about that book is you've got two authors with totally different backgrounds and belief systems. (At the time of the writing the book Robinson was dean of ancient scripture at BYU - he taught New Testament - and Bloomberg was a dean of the religion department at some Christian college that I don't remember the name of - in Colorado) You've got these two guys, and they don't hate each other, and they come together and sharpen the distinctions between mainstream Christians, and Mormons. But without the rancor that obviously exists still between Mormons and Christians today.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/03/07 01:32:42 AM | | Age 41, CA |
To 29, TX, yes, that is a great book! We have that here at home.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/02/07 03:41:48 PM | | Age 42, IL |
Since you are Mormon and obviously feel you have been misrepresented by the 10 Amazing Facts that Jill presented would you please take each fact and show how she "misrepresented" or "took out of context" these facts? I would like to know how they were misrepresented or taken out of context, as of yet you only direct us to a website. Please just refute these ten facts so we can know how she was wrong about Mormon beliefs.
Thank you.
Susan McCurdy
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/11/07 08:40:50 AM | | Age 52, UT |
I have listed some of the problems with this list of alleged facts on my blog: http://byteline.blogspot.com
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/13/07 08:12:25 PM | | Age 28, MD |
With all due respect...it would be nice if you'd post your responses here on this forum.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/21/07 02:06:24 PM | | Age 26, NA |
Check out this Blog. It is truly fantastic.
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- P.S.
| Posted On: 03/29/07 09:57:39 PM | | Age 28, MD |
I noticed that you posted a bit further up on the page...
I can sympathize with you. I used to use the same arguments that you do when I felt someone was attacking my religion unfairly. Why can't they just see the truth???!!!
My question for you is, do *you* know what your church teaches? Really and truly? There are an awful lot of people out there who are making some pretty strong claims as to what your church is teaching, and when you were given a chance to answer them, you say: "some of it is false, the rest is unfortunately very badly interpreted"...and then don't tell us what the correct interpretation *is*.
When I went to my old church, I could say the same things you did about being happy, loving God and Jesus, being a better person, etc. But I have to disagree with you on one point you make. You said: "I don't think its very Christ-like going around trying to take people away from their religions, especially when they encourage us to be better people." So then, are you saying that it *is* Christ-like to allow people to remain in something that you know is a false religion without preaching the true gospel to them? There are lots of religions out there that encourage people to be 'better', but that doesn't make them acceptable in God's sight. Unless they are worshiping the true God of the Bible through faith in Jesus Christ, they are still lost, and Jesus told us to go and preach the gospel to them.
How do we know that we're worshiping the true God through the true Jesus? By testing all we hear against the truth of the Holy Scripture. The Book of Mormon contains contradictions to the Bible-that is how I know that it is not a true revelation.
I am thankful for those out there who cared enough about others to preach the truth. That is why I no longer attend the kingdom hall. And I encourage you to not be insulted or angered by these sort of articles, but rather to investigate for yourself. If your religion is true, it will stand up against the scrutiny and strengthen your faith. I have investigated it, and therefore have no desire to read the previous poster's blog. May the true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob bless and guide you as you seek to discover *His* truths. The Lord truly is merciful and desires that none be lost, but we have to do things on His terms.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
| Posted On: 03/29/07 09:27:06 PM | | Age 28, MD |
Have you read the second article by this author concerning this topic? If so, I would be interested in your response to the endnotes that the author has provided.
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