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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/09/07 02:25:28 PM Age 54, OK
"Not One..." is confronting "...the theological/biblical corrosion of modern day evangelicalism head on?" How about Dr. John MacArthur? I guess it depends on what kind of confrontation you're looking for. The decline of our chuches is so broad and commonplace I don't even have a church home now.
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  1. Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
    Posted On: 01/13/07 01:45:34 AMAge 61, TX
    You're right to bring up John MacArthur. He wrote "RECKLESS FAITH: WHEN THE CHURCH LOSES ITS WILL TO DISCERN." On pgs. 92-93 he states "But many seem to think it doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you label it Christianity. With the exception of a few cults that blatantly renounce the Trinity, almost everything taught in the name of Christ is accepted by evangicals--from Roman Catholicism (which denies that sinners are justified soley by faith) to the extreme charismatic Word Faith movement (which both corrupts the doctrine of Christ and makes temporal health and wealth the focus of salvation)." He continues to elaborate that if Scripture is our authority, we have to accept all the issues that were enumerated as "fundamental beliefs." He lists them, and the doctrine of the Trinity is certainly included. He also covers the subject in his book, "CHARISMATIC CHAOS: SIGNS & WONDERS, SPEAKING IN TONGUES; HEALTH, WEALTH & PROSPERITY, CHARISMATIC TELEVANGELISM, DOES GOD STILL SPEAK TODAY?"
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Some of the responders strain at Silva's gnats and swallow Jakes' camels
Posted On: 01/05/07 11:30:17 PM Age 47, MO
I want to thank Ken Silva for alerting us about a Southern Baptist pastor inviting a health-and-wealth huckster and false teacher such as T.D. Jakes to speak at a conference. The CWN e-mail headline did make me think that the whole SBC endorsed Jakes, but reading Silva's article set me straight. I am far more dismayed by the attitudes of the responders who have attacked Silva. The responders who want Silva to discuss the matter privately with Jakes need to realize that many other Christians tried to do that long ago, but Jakes never repented of his Oneness heresies. Now we must shun Jakes and treat him like a Roman Empire Tax Collector! Those who defend Jakes' false doctrine are even more misinformed. (BTW, one of the Christian leaders who attempted to speak with Jakes was the much-maligned Hank Hanegraaff!) OTOH, one responder supported Silva, but shot some "friendly fire" by using an idiom with the word "spade" in it; the idiom has the word "spade" mean a digging tool, but "spade" has also been used as a racial slur and therefore should never be used in a discussion about an African-American!
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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/04/07 08:11:17 AM Age 47, AL
Shame, Shame, Shame on you Mr. Silva. Another typical rant with nasty generalizations with little or no factual foundation! At least try to get your facts right. You are free to your opinions (thank God we live in America), but stop accusing others of your own sins! If you could take the energy you put into tearing everyone else down, and put it into building up the church, much good could be accommplished! I will put you on my prayer list!
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  1. Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
    Posted On: 01/04/07 01:27:17 PMAge 51, NH
    Thank you. I covet all the prayer I can get! Even from those too blinded by their own prejudice to see. For my answer to...um, whatever it is that you didn't see check my response to the comment below. The Lord open your eyes so that you might see the dark red sky this morning and recognize the time in which you now live.
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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/03/07 11:11:19 PM Age 34, MS
I take exception to your equating Ed Young, Jr.'s conference as an endorsement by Southern Baptists of T. D. Jake's views. Perhaps I'm missing something, but Ed Jr.'s church isn't even a Southern Baptist church. Go to SBC.net and check under "church search." Question Ed Young, Sr. about his support of his son's conference if you wish, but to use Ed Jr's conference to say that Southern Baptist's endorse T. D. Jakes is to use a brush so broad that you can't find a paint can wide enough to accomodate it. It's just simply not a valid argument.
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  1. Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
    Posted On: 01/04/07 09:26:30 AMAge 51, NH
    You say: "I take exception to your equating Ed Young, Jr.'s conference as an endorsement by Southern Baptists of T. D. Jake's views." First of all, of course you are free to take exception to whatever you want to. That said, I did NOT say the SBC itself endorsed this. Read carefully, I said the Youngs who are "Southern Baptists" do. Then you said: "Perhaps I'm missing something, but Ed Jr.'s church isn't even a Southern Baptist church. Go to SBC.net and check under 'church search.'" Yes, you are definitely missing something. Trust me, I do my homework. I have in my personal possession a letter from Fellowship Church itself just this week stating that indeed they ARE SBC. And I am well aware it doesn't show up in the church search which is why they were persoanlly contacted. Odd why they wouldn't want that information more generally known, isn't it. Then you say: "Question Ed Young, Sr. about his support of his son's conference if you wish, but to use Ed Jr's conference to say that Southern Baptist's endorse T. D. Jakes is to use a brush so broad that you can't find a paint can wide enough to accomodate it." Nice try. But you see, before you have the audacity to make false statements about Christ's teachers such as you have done here you'd best do your own homework. And you are flat wrong here when you say: "It's just simply not a valid argument." I'm afraid you'll have to find a better issue with which to take your shot at me. Pastor Ken Silva
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    1. Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
      Posted On: 01/04/07 03:26:42 PMAge 30, TN
      Ken, I just noticed that the email sent out by CWN or Worldview Weekend has your article listed as follows: Article # 1 Southern Baptist Convention Says OK to T.D. Jakes By Pastor Ken Silva Which constitutes proof that the title of your article is so misleading that it fooled even those who distribute your writings on a regular basis. Nice going, Slick. --Brian
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    2. Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
      Posted On: 01/04/07 03:04:47 PMAge 30, TN
      Ken, Your response here is less than admirable. You are quite emphatic when you deny saying that the SBC endorsed Ed Young Jr's conference, however, that is exactly what the sensationalized title of your article leads any casual reader to understand you to mean. For example, I'm certain that there is more than one Southern Baptist church member who thinks that abortion is okay, and therefore you could write an article with the technically accurate though intentionally misleading title "But Southern Baptists Say OK To Abortion." Any casual reader of the title of such an article would understand the author to mean that the SBC itself had endorsed abortion and not merely a few individuals. Giving articles sensationalized and misleading titles for the sake of shock value and increased readership is dishonest, regardless of whether the title is "technically" accurate or whether the content of the article, scathing as it may be, is also verifiable. Additionally, where you say "Nice try. But you see, before you have the audacity to make false statements about Christ's teachers such as you have done here you'd best do your own homework. And you are flat wrong here when you say: 'It's just simply not a valid argument.' I'm afraid you'll have to find a better issue with which to take your shot at me" this line of reasoning is easily identifiable as what is known in the strategies of debate as committing the logical fallacy called the "Ad hominem" argument, meaning that you did not address the real issue, you simply attacked the other person. The other writer did not "take a shot at you" personally. He questioned what you had written. You even quoted exactly what he said so there is no confusion about what he was referring to. Nor did he "have the audacity to make false statements about Christ's teachers." He simply disagreed with you, and you took it personally. But in your response you merely prop yourself on the crutch of being one of "Christ's teachers" to support your own authority, and you simply reject his authority to question whatever you say by telling him to do his homework, which basically implies that he is incompetent to debate someone such as yourself. Furthermore, you never did defend the validity of your argument or provide any reasons why it is wrong to call it an invalid argument. All you did was to say "You are flat wrong," after you questioned his authority to debate you. It should come as no surprise to you that others disagree with you when you write in such a sensationalized and inflammatory style. So if you can't take the resulting heat for what you spout off about, either grow up and get past the playground style "I'm rubber; you're glue" defense strategy, or else stop saying things just to provoke a response. --Brian
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      1. Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
        Posted On: 01/05/07 09:48:40 AMAge 63, OH
        A very well stated argument. You make valid points. And you are correct in the fact about what you say about Ken's methods. ---- Lou
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      2. Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
        Posted On: 01/04/07 07:09:29 PMAge 63, TX
        Brian, Well spoken, accurate, and thank you. Old Glen gboydsmith@sbcglobal.net
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      3. Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
        Posted On: 01/04/07 05:32:23 PMAge 30, TN
        Ken, I also noticed that CWN/Worldview Weekend was fooled by the misleading title of your article "But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes" not only within the text of the email they sent out, where they refer to it as Article # 1 Southern Baptist Convention Says OK to T.D. Jakes By Pastor Ken Silva, but also in the title of their email which I believe was "Who Wrote the Bible; The SBC and T. D. Jakes; and More" (for some reason my computer's "Outlook" program won't open right now so I may be off slightly as to the title of the email, but I know for certain that it says as part of the title "The SBC and T. D. Jakes." When you have to instruct your critics to "read carefully" to discover the real meaning of what you said because they took the bait and misunderstood the sensationalozed title to mean something else, it should be clear to you that your article title is less than transparent if not obscure. As I said before, it is dishonest to use misleading (though perhaps technically accurate) titles for your articles merely for shock value and increased readership. The reason using article titles like the one in question is a dishonest practice is because it is exactly the same technique used by shady salesmen that is referred to as the "Bait and Switch" routine. On the surface or at first glance, the unsuspecting shopper has his curiosity piqued by one thing that he believes is being offered to him only to have the salesman change the rules midway into the game and offer him something else entirely. You shouldn't get angry when readers misunderstand your "Southern Baptists" to mean "The SBC." When have you ever heard of a fisherman getting angry at the fish for taking the bait that the fisherman himself cast out to it? --Brian
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      4. Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
        Posted On: 01/04/07 04:42:36 PMAge 30, TN
        Ken, I just noticed that the email sent out by CWN or Worldview Weekend has your article listed as follows: Article # 1 Southern Baptist Convention Says OK to T.D. Jakes By Pastor Ken Silva Which constitutes proof that the title of your article is so misleading that it fooled even those who distribute your writings on a regular basis. --Brian
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      5. Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
        Posted On: 01/04/07 03:23:21 PMAge 51, NH
        Brian, Here is where your problem lies. You say: "this line of reasoning is easily identifiable as what is known in the strategies of debate as committing the logical fallacy called the 'Ad hominem' argument." If I were you I wouldn't be quick to assume I haven't studied logic and here you speak down to me. This gives me the impression that you are seemingly in love with the wisdom of man and thinking as men think. I answered the objection but when you don't like my answer it is actually you who now resort to ad hominem. In any event, Ed Young's church is SBC and I did NOT say the SBC endorses this. However, Dr. Frank Page's non-response here does: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/01/an_indepth_anal.html
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        1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
          Posted On: 01/04/07 09:55:28 PMAge 30, TN
          Ken, I never assumed that you had not studied logic. However, from this last response of yours I am now pretty sure that you would be well served by at least a refresher course. I am pretty sure of this because in your response you commit two additional logical fallacies, namely, the tu quoque or you too fallacy, and the fallacy known as the argument from silence. Where you say it is actually you who now resort to ad hominem you really just avoid responding to my assertion that you commit an ad hominem fallacy by accusing me of doing the same where I raised the objection. Classic you too fallacy. Once again, you here revert to the playground style Im rubber; youre glue; bounces off of me and sticks to you defense strategy. Where you say However, Dr. Frank Page's non-response here does [endorse the conference with the Youngs and T.D. Jakes] you simply argue from his silence on the issue that Dr. Page holds a certain position. Basically, you are putting words in his mouth that he did not say. The following definition of the argument from silence from another website may help explain this: Argument from Silence is an informal logical fallacy where a positive conclusion is drawn from someone's silence. For example, if one's opponent in a debate does not respond to an argument, it would be a fallacy to conclude that he or she cannot counter the argument. Especially on web forums, this is a fallacy because there are many other reasons why a particular respondent might not want or be able to respond. Reasons include hardware failure, scheduling, or a simple lack of desire to continue an obviously fruitless discussion. Another example of an argument from silence is concluding that a speaker or writer must be ignorant of something if he or she is silent about it. You dont even give Dr. Page the benefit of the doubt. Did you even tell him thank you for taking the time out of his busy schedule to respond at all? Finally, where you say concerning my use of logic in a debate setting, This gives me the impression that you are seemingly in love with the wisdom of man and thinking as men think I will only assert that I am, in fact, in love with the wisdom of God, and that I try to think LOGICALLY as he does. God is the God of order and not of chaos. I know that Gods thoughts are orderly, even if they are higher than our own. If Gods thoughts were not orderly and logical, then we could know nothing at all about him, or even differentiate between God and Satan. Fortunately, God was kind enough to create us in His own image, which I believe includes the ability to think logically. So I make no apology for using logic or for pointing out its misuse by others. And by the way, I do sincerely applaud you for trying to warn other Christians against the dangers of distorted teachings whether from the Emergent crowd or from T.D. Jakes or elsewhere. But I do appeal to you as you continue in your efforts to try a little harder not to come off like such a jerk. Thanks, --Brian
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          1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
            Posted On: 01/13/07 02:42:36 AMAge 61, TX
            To 30 yr. old Brian: It seems that your driving force is to continue to counter position yourself against the author. Do you want to appear intellectually sarcastic, gifted (I'm not finding the fruits of the Spirit in your responses), or is this an ego trip? Your tenacity is driven by something deeper than this article. Do you enjoy taking on your elders and those in authority? I cannot believe you had the audacity to call a pastor who is putting forth the effort to try and educate us a "jerk!" God knows your heart; do you? Think about it!
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          2. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
            Posted On: 01/05/07 08:52:50 AMAge 51, NH
            Brian, I have no control over how CWN's email alert reads and the title of my article is quite clear in the piece itself. Straining at gnats again, are we? By the way, I don't see you thanking me for taking time out of my busy schedule to help remove the speck from your eye. The you you preach: "Fortunately, God was kind enough to create us in His own image, which I believe includes the ability to think logically." Yes, we were created in the image of God, but perhaps you may have heard of the fall? It is quite unwise to trust that we can think logically on our own or do you not remember God saying His thoughts are NOT as our thoughts? My advice to you is to find something better to do than to try and correct those of us whom Christ has sent to teach you. Here's an idea: Try listening and taking to heart what you are taught. I wonder, suppose the Pharisees thought John the Baptist was a jerk?
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            1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
              Posted On: 01/15/07 03:03:46 PMAge 30, TN
              Hey Ken, If I've got the speck, then where is the log? --Brian
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            2. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
              Posted On: 01/10/07 08:20:35 AMAge 33, TX
              Are you John the Baptist?
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              1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
                Posted On: 01/13/07 02:50:20 AMAge 61, TX
                That was as rediculous as Brian's ultra-lengthy run-on replies. I commend you on keeping it short, though. You CERTAINLY MISSED THE POINT, and I'll pray for both you and Brian for the gift of discernment---in fact, for all of the fruits of the Spirit!
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              2. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
                Posted On: 01/11/07 06:10:55 PMAge 51, NH
                Did I say I was?
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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/03/07 06:20:06 PM Age 22, HI
I am a young person only 22 years old and what i cant stand is certain people judging so many others in the church who are doing amazing things for christ. We like to bag the mega church people but yet i see them doing so many good things in the community all around them. I may not do it like them but Paul said to praise the lord that the gospel is being preached. Why do we have to judge everyone. I even hear people Judging billy Graham and i think thats ridiculous. I am not a liberal or a man condoning sin. I want to pursue holiness and the narrow gate to heaven but this judgement of Godly men and women who may have different views has to stop unless they are blatently going against the word of God. Let us work together in taking the gospel to the nations.
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  1. Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
    Posted On: 01/13/07 03:20:38 AMAge 61, TX
    I commend you on your zeal, and desire to do God's work with the Gospel. Please understand that there's a difference in doing something for Christ, and something to Christ, and they can appear to be so close as to look like the same. There are good mega churches, but this is about a specific mega church run by a specific mega man. It is the opinion of many that when you hold Jakes' beliefs and works up to Scripture he's doing and preaching things that are unbiblical. We're not merely talking about people with different views here, we're talking about a man with a different doctrine on the Trinity, and that is BLATENTLY going against the word of God! YOU take the narrow gate, and judge everything against Scripture and you'll continue to grow in Christ. Galatians 1:6-10 "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel---WHICH IS REALLY NO GOSPEL AT ALL. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" God Bless You--bigtime!
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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/03/07 05:37:52 PM Age 72, OH
I have always been curious about the "oneness" teaching. My question would be "If God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not three persons, how is Jesus seated at the right hand of His Father? As a former church secretary, I received a call from a man who didn't believe in the Trinity, and I asked him that question. His reply was "Well, God can do anything" and slammed the phone down in my ear. Hmmm.
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  1. Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
    Posted On: 01/04/07 12:32:57 PMAge 63, OH
    If you are curious about the "oneness" teaching you should check into who taught it. A teacher of the law asked Jesus what was THE MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDMENT. Mark 12:29 " The most important one", answered Jesus,"is this: hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.--". We have a choice we can believe Jesus or our reasoning or doctrine. Jesus was the God-man so God was still his God because He was a man too. But He was still God. You can check out my other comments on this subject if you are interested,I signed them all Lou. --- Lou
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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/03/07 05:14:36 PM Age 53, TN
T. D. JAKES IS A WELL-KNOWN HERETIC. HE APPEALS TO PEOPLE AND THEIR POCKET-BOOKS BY SEEKING OUT THEIR FLESH NEEDS (WHICH WE ALL HAVE THOSE) AND THEN HE INVITES THEM INTO THE STATE OF COVETOUSNESS AND SECULAR HUMANISM THAT HE PRACTICES. HE DOES ALL OF THIS CLOAKED UNDER THE TITLE OF "CHRISTIAN" AND "BISHOP". HE IS A DISGRACE TO THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS. JAKES' TEACHINGS ARE TO BE AVOIDED. SEEING THAT WE ARE IN THE LAST DAYS LAODECEAN CHURCH AGE (SO VERY LUKEWARM AND COMROMISING)IT IS OF NO SURPRISE THAT SO MANY ARE DESIROUS OF JAKES' EAR-TICKLING SHOWS OF FLESH ENTERTAINMENT RATHER THAN READING AND STUDYING THE WORD OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. AS FOR THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION, THERE AREN'T MANY SURPRISES LEFT FROM THAT GROUP. BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH IN MEMPHIS HAS YET TO BE REBUKED BY THE SBC AS FAR AS WE KNOW. READ ABOUT BELLEVUE'S STATE OF EXPOSED WICKEDNESS AT A WEBSITE NAMED "SAVING BELLEVUE". THIS IS THE LATEST MEGA-CHURCH THAT GOD IS EXPOSING. YOU ARE ALSO WELCOME TO VISIT OUR WEBSITE "LIVING HOPE IN JESUS". IT IS A SITE PROCLAIMING THE REAL JESUS OF THE BIBLE TO THE WORLD. THE LORD JESUS IS RETURNING VERY SOON AND THE STATE OF THIS LAST DAYS CHURCH IS OF NO SURPRISE TO GOD ALMIGHTY. IT MAKES HIM SICK JUST AS HE SPOKE IN REVELATION. TRULY HE WILL DO WHAT HE SPOKE IN HIS WORD. TO THE LUKEWARM LAODECEAN CHURCH HE STATES THAT HE WILL "SPEW YOU OUT OF MY MOUTH". EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS. SINCERELY IN THE LORD AND ONLY SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, STEPHEN AND BONITA ANN RICHIE
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  1. Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
    Posted On: 01/04/07 08:16:29 PMAge 63, TX
    The Monarchians properly so-called (Modalists) exaggerated the oneness of the Father and the Son so as to make them but one Person; thus the distinctions in the Holy Trinity are energies or modes, not Persons: God the Father appears on earth as the Son; hence it seemed to their opponents that Monarchians made the Father suffer and die. In the West they were called Patripassians, whereas in the East they are usually called Sabellians. The first to visit Rome was probably Praxeas, who went on to Carthage some time before 206-208. . . This is quoted from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10448a.htm We see that the oneness doctrine is very old. In response to it the Athanasian Creed grew out of the Synod of Alexandria in 361 and affirms the truth of the Trinity, Christs Incarnation, Ascension, second coming, and the final judgment. Many devout Christians in the third and fourth centuries held a form of the oneness doctrine. Consequently, are we to understand these believers who held an unorthodox view of deity are denied everlasting life? As non-Roman Catholics and non-Eastern Orthodox, Protestants would do well to comprehend that orthodoxy is determined by the creeds rather than Scripture. Holding an unorthodox doctrine makes one a heretic by definition. Therefore, it is conceivable that one may be true to the teachings of Scripture and be a heretic (unorthodox); and conversely, one might be orthodox but unbiblical. Of course, this assumes that not all the creeds are on an indisputable biblical foundation. Before condemning fellow unorthodox believers, Protestants would benefit from recognizing all Protestants deny some of the creeds, which makes us all heretics. For the record, I am a Trinitarian but very unorthodox. I am writing from the shadow of the church owned by the Reverend T. D. Jakes, The Potters House. I have a simple question for authenticating churches. Here it is. Is the community in which the church is located profoundly more like Jesus on Monday morning than it was on Saturday night? They do not make any difference. Regardless of size or doctrine, all the churches of my area are without divine power. Not a single mountain even trembles - much less cast itself into the sea. Signed Heretical Old Glen gboydsmith@sbcglobal.net
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    1. Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
      Posted On: 01/22/07 07:05:49 PMAge 61, TX
      I live 10 to 15 minutes from the high dollar property of T. D. Jakes meeting place. When I've had occasion to drive past it and see the multiple parking lots full of vehicles, they aren't the average income family cars, they're the biggest, finest, most expensive wheels to be found. It makes me sick when I think how much good a fraction of that money could do if donated to a missionary! They could build churches, schools, provide Bibles, and spread the gospel in other countries of the world without being deprived themselves. It is about the positive sense of "self" and materialism that drives that church, and it starts in the pulpit. Emotionalism is one of the main tools. I'm not sure it's fair to judge the worth of a church by whether mountains in our own location are trembling, etc. In our area, we have one church that has sent a group to Africa and they're there right now, as I write this. We know of another group that had sent their people to Nicaragua within the last month. Boxes and boxes of handmade baby quilts were sent to people in south America several years back when a group was sent. That one was dear to my heart. Their newborn babies were being wrapped in newspapers. I could go on and on. Certainly our area has its share of bad apple, Laodicean, and even apostate churches, but the good ones don't post their works on their signs out front. Just hold on to the fact that God has always had His remnant of faithful who follow Him. We can't always see the mountains that are being moved in His name.
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    2. Re: Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
      Posted On: 01/05/07 10:15:04 AMAge 63, OH
      I like your response. I can't find a church in my area where any mountains are trembling either. ---- Lou
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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/03/07 03:58:39 PM Age 33, TX
While I agree with Ken on his assessment of TD Jakes, I do not agree with his making this out to be a Southern Baptist Conference. All SBC churches are autonomous. Ed Young, Jr having an event at his church and including TD Jakes does not equate the SBC endorsing Jakes. Putting that headline in order to capture more readers is irresponsible and misleading. The vast majority of Southern Baptists in no way support or agree with TD Jakes. I also assume that you contacted Ed Young and Ed Young, Jr before you wrote this article since you are a fan of Matthew 18.
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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/03/07 12:49:12 PM Age 50, AR
some people will continue to call a spade a shovel. you are doing the right thing. it is up to the calling of the church to expose erroneous teaching. like the eunuch and the apostle - how could he possibly have known what isaiah was speaking unless he had direction. jakes is a prosperity preacher - his ranking is not much lower than the third of the angels cast to earth many years ago.
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  1. Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
    Posted On: 01/03/07 05:11:34 PMAge 63, OH
    We can judge a mans teachings if they line up with scripture or not. But can we judge a mans heart. Or even if we could judge a mans heart do we want to. I am so thankful that I don,t have to judge anyone's eternity. What a heavy decision. But Jesus said the burden He gave me is light,and so it is. I try to leave all the judging of men's hearts to the Lord Jesus. Men seem to judge me often. They do not know my heart and have never even been to my house. The Lord knows my heart better than I know myself and He has been to my house. Yet He reserves judgment until the appointed time. One could say that when we judge another mans heart we are calling ourselves Christ since it is His job that we are trying to preform. I don't agree with T.D.Jakes teachings but I certainly don't want to say he is going to Hell with the fallen angels because that is a judgment that the Lord Jesus reserves for himself. You don't want to try to take something from Jesus that is His do you.
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  2. Re: Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
    Posted On: 01/03/07 04:26:24 PMAge 63, OH
    We can judge a mans teachings if they line up with scripture or not. But can we judge a mans heart. Or even if we could judge a mans heart do we want to. I am so thankful that I don,t have to judge anyone's eternity. What a heavy decision. But Jesus said the burden He gave me is light,and so it is. I try to leave all the judging of men's hearts to the Lord Jesus. Men seem to judge me often. They do not know my heart and have never even been to my house. The Lord knows my heart better than I know myself and He has been to my house. Yet He reserves judgment until the appointed time. One could say that when we judge another mans heart we are calling ourselves Christ since it is His job that we are trying to preform. I don't agree with T.D.Jakes teachings but I certainly don't want to say he is going to Hell with the fallen angels because that is a judgment that the Lord Jesus reserves for himself. You don't want to try to take something from Jesus that is His do you.
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Re: But Southern Baptists Say Ok To Bishop T.D. Jakes
Posted On: 01/03/07 12:18:35 PM Age 58, AR
I may have another comment posted on this site that wasn't completed due to "operator error." It needs to be said that even though this conference is at a Southern Baptist Church, I do not see where this is a conference sponsored by the convention. Ken is painting with a very wide brush. Even though he feels this is prevalent among the "mega" churches, most SBC churches are not. We are the small churches serving in small communities and holding a Biblically conservative view point
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