Re: Erwin McManus: The Emergent Penetration of the Southern Baptist Convention
| Posted On: 12/13/06 01:57:19 AM |
Age 36, TX |
Ken, I'll be looking for your upcoming articles documenting McManus' heretical teachings. To the point though, until then, this article is nothing but a bunch of hot, unfounded air, bro. I know that space is limited in the publication of online articles, especially when it comes to an expose'. But, you didn't offer anything other than McManus' associations as proof here. By that faulty standard, Jesus was in the wrong also. This, you will remember is what the Pharisees were so upset about, "He eats with tax collectors and sinners." Pharisees... that's not a good group for you to associate with, sir, but so far your argument puts you in that category. I followed your link and read the full article. 'Nothing there. I think it's entirely unfair, brother, to accuse someone -- especially another Christian -- and then basically tell your readers, "Just wait for the future articles." That's like a district attorney indicting someone and then getting to trial and telling the judge and jury, "I'll produce the evidence later on." Well, hopefully this article is like your opening statement and you will produce the evidence later on. A thought though: We rightfully chastise the secular, liberal media for its frequently slanted and haphazard approach in news wherein they will repeatedly accuse the President or some senator of wrongdoing without offering any proof. You're a Christian though, brother, and functioning as a journalist also. As Christians, we should be setting the standard and this initial article falls well below the mark. Like I said though, I'll be following you on this to see what you produce and then go from there. Fair enough?
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Re: Erwin McManus: The Emergent Penetration of the Southern Baptist Convention
| Posted On: 12/11/06 05:30:02 PM |
Age 51, NH |
Darren you ask: "Pastor Ken, Are you offering this piece as an introduction for a deeper look into McManuss theology? I ask this, because from what I read here, there is not much to go on." Yes, and no. I don't have the space here to develop this idea to beyond a reasonable doubt. Here is the link to the full piece at Apprising Ministries: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/12/erwin_mcmanus_t.html There you will see more including testimony from McManus' friend Andrew Jones (a part of the original emerging church movement). You say: "I have read The Barbarian Way and never sensed any major flaws in his theology." One needs to understand the Celtic Contemplative Spirituality to pick it up and the redefinition of terminology. Then you quote me: "In my view having the endorsement of Rick Warren for a book I had written would be bad enough..." and say: "it seems as though you are basing this on guilt by association." I know Darren we've been through this before and it seems to me you bend over backward to defend people like Warren. Then you ask of 'Unstoppable Force': "Does the book itself develop dominion theology... We, the body of Christ do not change anything ourselves, but God uses us through the Gospel to change the world." The whole of PDL and Emergent is dominion theology as you just laid out yourself. The Bible does not teach the Church will "change the world" in the sense you use, this present earth and heavens are going to be destroyed. As the Church calls God's children to Him, as a by product, the world does change but our commitment is to "seek and save that which is lost." Men like McManus et al are man-lovers who simply tell people what they want to hear. Pressing in, Pastor Ken
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- Re: Re: Erwin McManus: The Emergent Penetration of the Southern Baptist Convention
| Posted On: 12/12/06 11:20:11 AM | | Age 40, TX |
Pastor Ken,
I really dont bend over backward to defend Rick Warren. I dont support his statements on Syria or Obama but that is not enough for me to look away from the positive work he does. I notice you did not address my point, which was if Rick Warren recommended Kingdom of the Cults by Dr. Walter Martin would you take a torch to it? I dont think you are being fair. I just want to look at both sides of the issue. Slice of Laodicea is one-sided view so I know that I may not get a fair representation of each story. A case in point is Ingrid using a Syrian News Agency to support her story. I know I can trust many things on that site but not everything because it is not fair and balanced. Slice seeks to take the high road but then they make fun of Joel Osteen. It is posts like that weaken the integrity of Slice. Apprising does not do things like that so I wander how you feel about their use of humor while condemning it from the pulpit. I ask you this as their pastoral advisor. Slice is a lot like my Dad. He always said the right things and stood for integrity and morality but never once gave me a hug or said I love you. I am not saying you or Ingrid or the people that normally post are like that, but that is the impression one gets from frequents visits to the site. We never hear of anything positive from Rick Warren. We just hear that his is evil. That is why I cannot trust everything that is presented on Slice. I feel a little better about Apprising but never feel like I get the whole story.
Press On, Darren
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More on McManus?
| Posted On: 12/06/06 01:08:06 PM |
Age 40, TX |
Pastor Ken,
Are you offering this piece as an introduction for a deeper look into McManuss theology? I ask this, because from what I read here, there is not much to go on. I have not read Unstoppable Force but have read The Barbarian Way and never sensed any major flaws in his theology.
When you state, In my view having the endorsement of Rick Warren for a book I had written would be bad enough,it seems as though you are basing this on guilt by association. If Rick Warren recommended Kingdom of the Cults by Dr. Walter Martin would you take a torch to it? Now if you are going to develop that Leonard Sweet endorses it because it greatly supports some heretical teaching of his, I get your point. Maybe I am being premature in my critique.
Regarding the blurb, Erwin McManus offers a vision of the church taking its rightful place. An unstoppable force created to change the world, Does the book itself develop dominion theology or rather support the title by Matthew 16:18 similar to others using the phrase unstoppable force. It seems as though Eph. 1:22-23, And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all supports that the church is the body if Christ. We, the body of Christ do not change anything ourselves, but God uses us through the Gospel to change the world. Again, I have not read that book, so I am asking others that have.
Press On, Darren
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