Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 12/27/06 12:20:48 PM |
Age 27, MD |
Very much appreciate this article!
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Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 11/29/06 06:47:16 PM |
Age 63, OH |
One reason there is so much error is that
most people do not understand what faith is.
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is being sure of
what we hope for and certain of what we do
not see." The problem is most people do not
seem to understand this scripture. The
question here is WHO IS SURE. It is not the
believer who is sure but the believee. In
other words it is not the man who is sure
but God. If God says to a man "Speak to this
mountain and I will cast it into the sea".
The man will know in his spirit that God
has spoke, but in his mind he will probably
wonder "is that God or my mind or the Devil
that spoke to me". The wonder did not remove
his faith, he still has faith and it is probably even increased because God spoke
to him. If he does not act because of fear
then he has lack of faith. But if he prays
to God "God please help me to speak to that
mountain IF that is you speaking to me, and
please keep me from speaking if that is not you speaking to me". Then God will answer
that prayer of faith and cause him to speak
to the mountian. Here is where the "SURE"
comes in; when that man speaks to that
mountian that mountian IS SURE TO MOVE.
What made it a sure thing was God and not the man; because God had said "If you speak
to that mountian I will move it". Therefore
now IF the man speaks it is sure to move.
The Holy Spirit also showed me much about
faith by showing me what faith is not. If
a man thinks in his own mind, or the Devil
speaks to him "Speak to that mountian and
I will move it"; it does not matter how much
he believes it. It is not faith he has but
presumption. He has presumed God has spoke to him when he did not. He presumes the
mountain will move( or so he says)but it will not move. The only sure thing here is that the mountian will NOT move because God
has not spoke and no move of God starts with man. To the giver of all true faith
the Lord Jesus and his Holy Spirit.
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- Re: Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 11/30/06 11:54:32 AM | | Age 37, TX |
The pronouns in Hebrews 11:1 are "we," which can only refer to the author, his readers, and the biblical heroes' assurance. I don't how that pronoun can be God in this context unless you read it in to the text. This undestand would actually say, "Faith is God being sure of what He hopes for and certain of what He does not see."
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- Re: Re: Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 12/04/06 01:34:39 PM | | Age 63, OH |
You have misunderstood; I do not mean that
the "we" refers to God but the "sure" refers
to the fact that what we hope for is sure to
happen if God has spoke to us that it would.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for": how can a man hope for something that
the man is sure of. There is no need for a man to hope if HE is sure. Sure means something is certian to happen or never failing. Man can not be unfailing. The
Pharisee's thought they were sure that Jesus
was not God; but they were wrong they were
not sure, what was sure was that Jesus was God. The Pharisee's did not have faith but
they had presumption in what they believed
to be a sure thing. In Mark 9:24 "The boys father exclaimed, "i do believe; help me overcome my unbelief". The boy's father was
looking to Jesus so the mans unbelief was
no problem for Jesus. Jesus did help the man
overcome his unbelief, He healed his son then the man knew. The boys father had belief or he would not have asked Jesus to heal his son. Having faith does not mean
the absence of doubt. Despite his doubt the
boys father looked to Jesus. What was sure
was the fact that when Jesus spoke to the
spirit and commanded the spirit to come out of the boy that the spirit would come out.
This is what I was talking about when I said
that the sure is not in us but we have hope.
The sure is in God. If we hope in God we will never be disappointed. If we think we
are sure of our beliefs like the Pharisee's
we will end up disappointed indeed.
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Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 11/29/06 06:15:41 PM |
Age 57, WA |
I again find it sad to see a "Christian worldview" equated with five point Calvinism in the same way as equating "scientist" only with those accepting naturalism and evolution. If repentance, faith with all its additional meanings and requirements, commitment, and continual good works are the result of the previous grant of regeneration, then there is nothing but God's caprice between the salvation of some undeserving sinners and eternal condemnation for a greater number of equally undeserving sinners. The gospel is not good news if it is not really offered to all sinners, and if salvation can't be known with certainty by any until they have endured to the end. I would certainly recommend The Dark Side of Calvinism by George Bryson and Getting the Gospel Right by C. Gordon Olson to anyone following DeWaay's way.
There is no clue in Acts 10-11 that Cornelius did anything other than accept Peter's testimony that "everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins"(Acts 10:43). The "grant of repentance" to all Gentiles was the removal of wall of separation in Ephesians 2:13, not individual faith, sorrow, commitment, and enough good works. Cornelius certainly does not turn from all the good that he has previously been doing. The "grant of repentance" in 2 Timothy 2:14-26 is for Christians who are being led astray by gangrenous teachings in the churches. It is not so they become Christians, but in hope that God would still allow them to return to the path of being choice vessels in the Master's household instead of being chamber pot Christians (2:20-21).
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- Re: Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 01/07/07 11:36:45 PM | | Age 34, MO |
Well said.
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- Re: Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 12/03/06 01:34:07 PM | | Age 44, IL |
Dear friend,
The Bible says that God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble. This humbleness is within our heart as we see the utter sinfulness of ourselves in comparison to a Holy God. We can see a good example of this in Isaiah chapter 6. Isaiah when confronted with the holiness of the Lord Almighty cried out " Woe to me! I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty." Then in vs.7 we read, With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for." The Bible says that God searches the hearts of men. What is He searching for? The answer is a broken and a contrite spirit. Broken and contrite over his sin. Cornelius and those gathered at his house did hear the message of repentance. We see it in vs. 37 when Peter said," You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached...." What was the baptism that John preached? It was a baptism of repentance. The Bible tells us to examine our selves to see if we are in the faith. This is something we all should do, no matter how long we may have claimed to be a Christian. Jesus said " Unless you repent you will all perish." We must examine ourselves in God's perfect law and see our utter sinfulness, then we must judge our selves by that perfect law which the Bible tells us is what we will be judged by. By this law we are all found guilty. For all have sinned and come short of the glory (perfect standard) of God. This should bring Godly sorrow in our hearts. Godly sorrow brings repentance,(given by God) and repentance leads to salvation (also from God) If you have never done this my friend, please do it! Do not be one of the many that the Lord says to, " Depart from me you workers of iniguity, for I never knew you." Faith apart from repentance is a house which is built on the sand. Today is the day of salvation. We must humble ourselves before the mighty hand of God, for the Bible warns, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God."
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- Re: Re: Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 12/05/06 05:55:04 PM | | Age 57, WA |
If this is saying that my repentance atones for my sins based on Isa 6:7, I can't go that far. If you are saying I can never be sure that Christ did enough to save and keep me, and I must continually ask if I have repented consistently enough to feel saved on any particular day, then I can't go that way either. The only sufficient basis for a relationship of love between God and sinners is knowing that God justifies the ungodly though faith in Christ, not themselves. Can you say how much godly sorrow is required of an unbeliever in order to receive the gift of repentance (and then faith and then salvation)? If we are really saved by our sorrow, what did poor Esau do wrong (Heb 12:17)? Do you assume that the eighteen hit by the tower of Siloam all went to hell forever because they weren't sorrowful enough, and that Jesus was saying that all the world would go to heaven just by repentance (Luke 13:3-4)? The perfect law is not the Mosaic Law but "the law of liberty"of life in Christ. John's baptism was certainly insufficient to save anyone; making John's baptism saving is to completely miss his message about the one for whom he prepared the way (cf Acts 19:4). To read the requirement for tremendous sorrow into Peter's "words by which you will be saved" or into Cornelius' response is simply eisegesis.
I will continue to trust that God justifies me, the sinner, based on the completed work of Christ on my behalf. I think we are agreeing the saying "Lord, Lord" has nothing to do with becoming a saved person. I would just like to point out again that the message of worthiness for the coming of kingdom of God to earth always includes "doing righteousness and justice" (Gen 18:19), which assumes a change of direction from Israel's normal course (Deut 30:1-6). But being "born again" or becoming a child of God requires faith alone in Christ alone without stopping to determine if you have enough sorrow or works or if your faith came from the right source or has the right additions made to it.
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Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 11/29/06 04:15:17 PM |
Age 42, MN |
Why would Jesus' 1st command to us be to "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"(Matt.4:17)unless He is willing to grant repentance to all who repent? Or is that what he meant? It was sounding like God won't grant repentence to most people reguardless if they obey this command or not.
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- Re: Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 01/07/07 11:34:27 PM | | Age 34, MO |
Your question is the pivotal one. I hope Dewaay will answer it. While I respect Dewaay immensely, his Calvinistic theology demands that God grant repentance to some and not to others. This error is an assault on the very character of God, and consequently a horror to introduce into Christian theology. The truth is this: Yes, it is only by grace that an unbeliever can repent, but this opportunity to repent is given to all, not just some as our Calvinist friends would have us believe.
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Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 11/29/06 08:59:50 AM |
Age 54, AZ |
Appreciated your excellent rebuttal of the easy-believism so rampant today. (One small bone to pick: repentence is not, in itself, as you stated, the change in behavior - it is the fruit, the result, of genuine repentance.)And to strenthen your argument further, consider that Paul once wrote that one day "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord". Why would God demand MORE from the unbeliever (before He eternally banishes them from His presence) than He does for His OWN children??? That idea is illogical and unsupportable. The erroneous belief that you refuted so well horribly cheapens the gospel. Just be careful in your presentation to make it clear at the outset that you AGREE that works cannot save, because sometimes it appears that that is what we are saying. Take that argument away from them right out of the gate. Keep up the good work in defending the faith from all attacks. Many blessings!
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Re: Repentance and the Universal Call of the Gospel Part 2
| Posted On: 11/28/06 03:27:13 PM |
Age 37, TX |
I agree that mental assent is not a good definition for faith. I prefer what the Scriptures say faith is "the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1) Although I didn't find (I could have missed it) a definition in Bob's article it appears to be different than the Scripture. The closest I came to finding a definition is that unbelief "is the refusal to walk Him and allow Him to determine the terms by which they would follow Him." So I assume Pastor DeWaay's definition of faith (pistis) would be the opposite. Yet I don't find that as a usage in the Greek-English Lexicon, BDAG or in the Scriptures.
I would also suggest that the ones ("they") who responded to Jesus in John 8:33 were the unbelievers in the crowd. As John Calvin said in his commentary on the Gospel of John on this verse, "My opinion is, that they replied to Christ in a confused manner, as usually happens in a promisuous crowd; and that this reply was made rather by the despisers than by those who believed." Thus John 8:30-32 is an aside by John revealing who Jesus was actually talking to, believers, although the unbelievers in the crowd (they) did not know that. Otherwise you have to interpet Jesus and John's inspired use of the same Greek word for believe (pisteuo) to once mean "only mental assent type of belief" in 8:30, 31 and in 8:45 to mean "much more than mental assent." Why didn't Jesus use some kind of adjective before believe to reveal this difference in the way he was using belief? Did Jesus intend for it to be this subtle? How could the inspired writer John grant that some of them believed in 8:30, 31 and then Jesus tell them they need to believe in 8:45? I prefer John Calvin's interpretation here.
As far as John 6:63-66 the text only says that the ones who didn't believe (actual disciples) stopped walking with Jesus or staying alongside Him through his itinerant ministry. I suggest that it is a theological leap from this passage to infer that anyone who really believed would have stayed with Him through his intinerant ministry. Were there other real believers at that time who chose not to travel with Jesus in His ministry?
Finally, I agree that repentance (change of mind or heart) and faith are granted by God. But is it theological overload to make faith and repentance mean more than "being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see?" Heb. 11:1
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