Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 11/21/06 05:48:43 AM |
Age 56, AR |
No matter who you are, if you're in Christ, you always compare everything with your own experience of being saved. My experience was at 28 with three small children, on drugs, living with the father of my youngest child, always looking for a buzz just to escape the reality of this world. Looking at and being involved in porn or anything else against God was a natural part of my life. I didn't know how to do anything else, and didn't want to until one day a woman at work told me God loved me. She spoke the word to me and prayed for me, and the Holy Spirit drew me, and I was redeemed. The reality of this world is sin. If you can't see the XXXchurch as sin, you're of the world. You cannot urge people to stop viewing pornography. You can't bully them or provoke them. They cannot do it, nor do they want to. What they are seeing with this 'movement', is that Christians are now joining in on their wicked lifestyle. This is how the devil works. First Christians welcome the emergent church's method, their music, their unholiness, their lifeless teaching, void of the spirit of Christ. The devil has put it into the minds of those who are weak in the faith or have another agenda, to do their own thing, try something else since the gospel isn't doing the trick. God is sovereign and he will not allow his church to involve itself in this wickedness. Pray people!!!
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- Re: Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 12/04/06 02:46:06 AM | | Age 22, CA |
So funny what you call wickedness and sin. You fail to see the results of XXX church the masses being saved from porn and the people within the porn industry being saved. NO OTHER TIME EVER have people within a sick harsh environment such as the Porn industry been shown the gospel to modern date. The problem with Christians today is we're to narrow minded, we love to put God in a box and say we'll Lord you didn't do it this way in the Bible so we can't either. We guess what? The Bible says we are called to do bigger and GREATER!! things then Jesus did. So just because you see it as wrong cause you have no specific bible story to compare it too that doesn't make it wrong.Is it wrong for Porn stars to see God love or get saved? Shouldnt we reach out to all hurting and needy? Are we not called to be salt and light? Yet we tear at people because they do it different then we would. Let's all grow up and see that if Jesus was walkin the earth today he would not leave any place or corner of the earth untouched. We who were created in his image should do no less then we would see him do. Don't agree argue it with him, instead of publicly bullying great organizations in the sick manner we have been.
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- Re: Re: Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 12/05/06 11:46:50 AM | | Age 44, UK |
Well said. Thank you.
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Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 11/19/06 07:37:36 PM |
Age 36, TX |
"Based on the ignorance on so many of the comments, most had not actually followed the links provided within my article. If they had they should have clearly seen what these men are really about with their lame ministry excuse to be around the Porn industry." "What a sorry and sad indictment concerning the dying evangelical church of the self in America that it is being taken captive by the apostate Church of Rome through her Ecumenical Church of Deceit of the new evangelicalism."
Dear Ken, the sorry and sad indictment here, sir, is the sloppy journalism of your first article and your anger at the readers for calling you out on it. Apparently, you were too upset to sit down and honestly consider what the majority of your feedback was saying: You had failed to make your case. If the readers are ignorant at the end of the article, sir, it is because the AUTHOR failed to educate them. You blaming your readers for your sloppy journalism makes about as much sense as a lawyer blaming the jury because he failed to subpoena the witnesses he needed to secure a conviction. In your case, your prosecution of Rob Bell and "Porn Sunday" failed because you didn't offer the proof. The overwhelming majority of people that spoke up posted feedback not singing the praise of Rob Bell as you have stated here, but saying to you, "Whoa, fella! You're making some strong statements, without offering solid proof." You're blaming the readers because you chose to give them a very vague series of hard-core accusations backed up by a loose-leaf bibliography of links that they would need to go to in order to piece it all together -- just to discover if there was anything to your assertions. That is sloppy journalism, plain and simple. 'No way around it. Don't get mad at the people for asking for evidence, which is exactly what they did. Here's a simple solution for your next piece: List your quotes IN the article like a responsible journalist (and like you did in this one) and ditch the attitude. Getting indignant about sin is fine, Ken. But your anger at your critics is sorely misplaced here and is a discredit to your witness. Please, put it away, brother. (Eph. 4:32)
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- Re: Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 11/21/06 09:37:55 AM | | Age 46, AR |
I must fully agree with TX, age 36 - My difficulty with your original article (and as I stated earlier) had to do with the logic and comprehensiveness of your article. (In my estimation, you practiced a certain writer's error -- Because you know your larger argument, you assumed you had you had presented it! I find, after reading Ingrids article, that I am deeply unsettled by the character of Porn Church and XXXSunday outreach. But your article, reliant as it was on links, failed to make an upfront case. As is, I never went to your links. (I am neither lazy nor a rash thinker, but I do have limited time). I assume that links function like foot notes. They document the source of information, or provide background for the interested, but are not part of the argument itself. If you meant to make them part of your presentation, you should make sure your readers know that the links are REQUIRED to complete your argument.
Kirk/ Conway AR
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- Re: Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 11/21/06 07:46:30 AM | | Age 51, NH |
"Dear Ken, the sorry and sad indictment here, sir, is the sloppy journalism of your first article and your anger at the readers for calling you out on it." Better luck next time TX. Fact is, I'm not angry at my readers at all, I was speaking specifically to the arrogant young person below my comment. I inadvertantly posted on the main board when I meant to reply to this person themself. And in your apparent eagerness to take your shots at me you widely missed the point of what I said in this piece. In the original article I was purposely NOT trying to lead readers in what to believe about this XXXchurch/Rob Bell porn fest. In that way their own fruit would come emerging. O, and that it most certainly did. What's the matter friend, do you want to be told what to think?
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Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 11/17/06 05:57:06 PM |
Age 51, NH |
"I am guessing i was one of the people you referred to in this article." O, no revealing of pride here, eh? I don't have a clue who you are. "That said, you must decry their entire minsitry because it is doing a lot of good as well." Friend this doesn't even make any sense. "Knowing how quick you are to avoid the entire story of people and institutions you bash" More Emergent fruit to speak to an elder and a pastor with such a judgmental attitude. Nice. "This brings fellow christ followers alongside" Here is an example of why this Emergent Church is a neo-orthodox cult - "fellow christ followers?" The rest of your comment is more judgment and arrogance in speaking in such a way to someone you know nothing about. Just more reason the fruit of this Emergent rebellion against the Bible speaks volumes for those who teach it like Rob Bell.
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- Re: Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 11/21/06 09:56:25 PM | | Age 20, MN |
I apologize, i had a few typos. My bad....next time ask for clarification. I will be hapy to clarify. In the first quote, i meant to say "you must NOT decry". Haha, silly me. The second quote, i am just using the same disrespectful attitude the author continually has towards people of my generation and also towards those he seems to do little research on. I have read many of ken's articles, and his tendency to be disrespectful to those he writes about is consistent. It is not ok to publicly bash someone or a group of people until you have confronted them privately on the issue, and even after that, you must use discretion when showing their heresy to the public. you claim that i show disrespect towards my elders. ask the pastor of the youth group i volunteer at, or the program director of the camp i worked at, and every manager i have ever worked under, they will tell you that i do not respect my elders. Please, that is unfair assumption to make. Plus, he put this article on the internet, allowing it to be open for crticism. That's how it works. I have shown just now that it is easy to misunderstand someone.
Thats ok. No harm done. Also, you mention my actions to be resulting in Emergent fruit. I would like to point out that i have yet to see an accurate definition of the term "Emergent". The Emergent Church is all about ambiguity, they make no definitions for anything. Thus, it is no surprise that there is no consistency among those who actually claim to be in the emergent church. That said, i think unless one claims to be a [art of the emergent church, you have no ability to label them as such. There is no clear-cut definiton with these people.
Also, you claim i know nothing about the author. I read every article posted on this website, and i have discovered something. The authors of the articles who post many articles and have consistency in their writing styles, beliefs, and ideas....they show a lot about who they are through their writings. You know little about me because you have seen one piece of my writing. I have seen many writings from Ken, and i have also heard many sermons by Rob Bell. Thus, i see the points where Ken's synopsis of Rob falls short, and i see a continued lack of a desire to gain understanding on Rob, and instead i see him skimming the surface. Any more quesitons, email me. smit3618@umn.edu
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Re: Mission Accomplished with Rob Bell, XXXChurch and Porn Sunday
| Posted On: 11/16/06 09:44:10 PM |
Age 20, MN |
I am guessing i was one of the people you referred to in this article. Just because i support Rob Bell doesnt mean i support xxxchurch 100%. While their desire to fight porn and lust are absolutely biblical, the things they do sometimes are not. That said, you must decry their entire minsitry because it is doing a lot of good as well. I have several friends who make use of the email accountability service that xxxchurch offers. Knowing how quick you are to avoid the entire story of people and institutions you bash, i will explain this service just in case you held to your usual tendencies: xxxchurch tracks every website you go to, and then after a month it emails this listing to people you have selected. This brings fellow christ followers alongside the person to help them fight porn and lust. I get around 5 emails a month from friends of mine. It is interesting to see the monthly improvement they have.
My comment on your last articlewas defending Rob Bell, as i do every single time you look to your ignorance of Rob to fuel your disdain for him.
Moral of the story: Rob Bell is not the enemy, and you must also not damn an entire ministry to hell when it only has a few flaws and provides a great service otherwise. Confront them personally in a civil manner instead publicly bashing them. If they do not turn from their destructive tendencies, then by all means, alert the church in what evr way you can, but speak the whole story, not just the parts that are bad, you know, the things that make you leap for joy in knowing you have another thing to publicly exaggerate and twist.
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